Just stumbled across this and was wondering if anyone has tried this unit and if it works as well as it is claimed. Its made by hydro innovations and its called the Ice Box Water-Cooled Heat Exchanger. I wonder if paired with the right chiller if these could be used to cool multiple light setups without the use of an a/c or will far less usage of a/c. What do you guys think???
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Water-Cooled Heat Exchanger For Your Lights???
- Thread starter OghostO
- Start date
Observer Tom
Member
That's an interesting concept. I haven't seen that yet, but here's my off-the-dome thoughts.
Water chillers are expensive so unless you have an extra one sitting around it's a lot out of pocket plus the electricity.
I suppose you could run cold tap or well water around the hood, negating the need for a pump AND a chiller and increasing your water bill which is probably on a seperate account from your electric bill. Run it slow and drain to waste or maybe put a pump in and recycle through a really large res.
It requires a water pump and a supply of cold(er) water, but you still have to exhaust the hood, all it's doing is removing the heat radiating off the top and sides of the hood.
I doubt it would make a large difference in room temperature, you could probably save more power by over insulating your hoods and connecting air ducts, venting outside, and making sure your room's exhaust is located at the ceiling.
I don't think this is the Next Big Thing.
Water chillers are expensive so unless you have an extra one sitting around it's a lot out of pocket plus the electricity.
I suppose you could run cold tap or well water around the hood, negating the need for a pump AND a chiller and increasing your water bill which is probably on a seperate account from your electric bill. Run it slow and drain to waste or maybe put a pump in and recycle through a really large res.
It requires a water pump and a supply of cold(er) water, but you still have to exhaust the hood, all it's doing is removing the heat radiating off the top and sides of the hood.
I doubt it would make a large difference in room temperature, you could probably save more power by over insulating your hoods and connecting air ducts, venting outside, and making sure your room's exhaust is located at the ceiling.
I don't think this is the Next Big Thing.
That's an interesting concept. I haven't seen that yet, but here's my off-the-dome thoughts.
Water chillers are expensive so unless you have an extra one sitting around it's a lot out of pocket plus the electricity. So is A/C
I suppose you could run cold tap or well water around the hood, negating the need for a pump AND a chiller and increasing your water bill which is probably on a seperate account from your electric bill. Run it slow and drain to waste or maybe put a pump in and recycle through a really large res. No water comes in contact with hood.
It requires a water pump and a supply of cold(er) water, but you still have to exhaust the hood, all it's doing is removing the heat radiating off the top and sides of the hood. The insulation around the hood is a separate product
I doubt it would make a large difference in room temperature, you could probably save more power by over insulating your hoods and connecting air ducts, venting outside, and making sure your room's exhaust is located at the ceiling. It seems to me all this product is doing is cooling the air that is blown through the hood so you can have a sealed room.
I don't think this is the Next Big Thing.
Not trying to argue with you just pointing out a few things as I understand them.
Water chillers are expensive so unless you have an extra one sitting around it's a lot out of pocket plus the electricity. So is A/C
I suppose you could run cold tap or well water around the hood, negating the need for a pump AND a chiller and increasing your water bill which is probably on a seperate account from your electric bill. Run it slow and drain to waste or maybe put a pump in and recycle through a really large res. No water comes in contact with hood.
It requires a water pump and a supply of cold(er) water, but you still have to exhaust the hood, all it's doing is removing the heat radiating off the top and sides of the hood. The insulation around the hood is a separate product
I doubt it would make a large difference in room temperature, you could probably save more power by over insulating your hoods and connecting air ducts, venting outside, and making sure your room's exhaust is located at the ceiling. It seems to me all this product is doing is cooling the air that is blown through the hood so you can have a sealed room.
I don't think this is the Next Big Thing.
Not trying to argue with you just pointing out a few things as I understand them.
I think it's a pretty cool product. I saw one at green coast and the air coming out of the hood is actually cool. I like the idea of water cooling and I ordered one of their hydro gen, water cooled gens last week.
I think I'm going to buy a couple of the ice boxes. I'm going to hook one up on my air cooled ducting before it hits the lamps with an 8" vortex. I'm going to air cool the water so the chiller dosn't have to work as hard. My room is sealed so I'm going to run one after my can 150 hooked up to another 8" vortex. Basically, i'm going to try it and see if it'll reduce how much I need to use my ac. I would imagine if you had really cool intake air of say 40-50* on a regular basis, you probably wouldn't need an ac at all.
I think I'm going to buy a couple of the ice boxes. I'm going to hook one up on my air cooled ducting before it hits the lamps with an 8" vortex. I'm going to air cool the water so the chiller dosn't have to work as hard. My room is sealed so I'm going to run one after my can 150 hooked up to another 8" vortex. Basically, i'm going to try it and see if it'll reduce how much I need to use my ac. I would imagine if you had really cool intake air of say 40-50* on a regular basis, you probably wouldn't need an ac at all.
Observer Tom
Member
Ahh, you're right OghostO! I thought the insulation around the hood was the product, instead it's the little radiator on the end. I have no problem with people arguing with me, the best ideas usually come from some back-and-forth and I'd rather have someone point out problems with my logic than let me go on believing something that isn't true!
Now that I took a better look at it, I think it's an even worse idea, to be honest. A radiator will dramatically slow down the air before it goes through the hood, where cooling the hood from the outside wouldn't have any impact on air speed and would provide greater cooling. I liked my (mistaken) idea that the unit was basically a bag of circulating water sitting on the hood and removing heat without being in the way of the air flow.
The whole point of this product is to reduce the heat coming from the bulbs, right. So if you're taking air from an outside line and dumping to an outside line that means you want to cool or insulate your ducts and hoods. This product sits in the way of that air and yes, it will make the air cooler, but how much slower?
This product tries to cool the air in the lines, but at the same time it's slowing down the air moving through those lines. It's like turning on a fan then draping a sheet over it, you're working against yourself.
I think this product would have a greater impact on room temperature if it was used simply as a water cooled AC unit in the room itself. Keep that high-rate air moving through the hoods and if you're going to spend extra electricity, put it into cooling the air that will stay in the room.
That's just my two cents and I'm happy to hear otherwise, especially if someone gets one or sees a demo in action that can report back.
Now that I took a better look at it, I think it's an even worse idea, to be honest. A radiator will dramatically slow down the air before it goes through the hood, where cooling the hood from the outside wouldn't have any impact on air speed and would provide greater cooling. I liked my (mistaken) idea that the unit was basically a bag of circulating water sitting on the hood and removing heat without being in the way of the air flow.
The whole point of this product is to reduce the heat coming from the bulbs, right. So if you're taking air from an outside line and dumping to an outside line that means you want to cool or insulate your ducts and hoods. This product sits in the way of that air and yes, it will make the air cooler, but how much slower?
This product tries to cool the air in the lines, but at the same time it's slowing down the air moving through those lines. It's like turning on a fan then draping a sheet over it, you're working against yourself.
I think this product would have a greater impact on room temperature if it was used simply as a water cooled AC unit in the room itself. Keep that high-rate air moving through the hoods and if you're going to spend extra electricity, put it into cooling the air that will stay in the room.
That's just my two cents and I'm happy to hear otherwise, especially if someone gets one or sees a demo in action that can report back.
I saw one hooked up to a 6" CAN fan and it worked great. Air was still moving through it just fine. I don't think it's as much of a restriction as you think.
I have to call them (the manufacturer) about the heat exchanger for the hydro gen. Maybe I can hook up a couple of these at cost or even free and do an objective test on them.
I have to call them (the manufacturer) about the heat exchanger for the hydro gen. Maybe I can hook up a couple of these at cost or even free and do an objective test on them.
stink.whistler
Member
I believe the device is active, with it's own fan, so it shouldn't be slowing down the airflow. Plus it is treating the heat directly at the source, so it should be fairly efficient.
The dowside I see, is that it would perhaps be difficult to use with a light mover, a light mover being good on two levels.
A light mover changes the angles of the light, increasing penetration + reduces the amount of peak heat, averageing the heat from directly beneath the bulb over a foot or more.
Anyone used one of these with a light mover? Is it possible?
nephilthim
Member
i came across an ad on craigslist for used water cooled cool tubes that were cooled by a # of methods ;tap water, pool,heat x changer 55 gal drum.
they were called fresca del sol completely encased the bulb around an o ring sealed piece of pyrex .they werent cheap 3 bills.
they were called fresca del sol completely encased the bulb around an o ring sealed piece of pyrex .they werent cheap 3 bills.
FunInTheFullSun
Member
I know of people who have used similiar products. Water cooling is a really good idea, sorta. It's also a really good way to die. Maybe it's just me but I don't like mixing h2o with electricity.
Peanut Butter
Member
holy shit, $150 bones for a tiny radiator?!?! are you kidding?
And their diagram is pretty stupid, warm water by running it through the radiator, then keep the warm water res in the grow room. Nice way to set up the customers for failure.
I like how their labels for hot and cold water magically depict that the water changes to cold, just from sitting in the res.
Hope anyone who runs something like that is prepared for some bad ass condensation buildup at the radiator.
IMO:
If you want something like this to work, heres how you do it. You need 2 motorcycle radiators, 2 inline fans(dont even need to move much cfm), a water pump, rectangular ducting, hose, and a water chiller.
1st create a box around radiators using ducting(or wood if your so inclined)
2nd cut holes in box for inlet and outlet....6" or whatever you want to use
3rd attach first radiator/box inline between light and fan(just like they depict)
4th attach second radiator/box to fan exterior to grow room
5th attach hose in this flow sequence:
growroom radiator --> water pump --> outside growroom radiator--> water chiller --> growroom radiator
No res needed, only ran when lights are on. Outside radiator is used to lower temp of water to(nearly)room temp before entering the chiller, greatly reducing the required size of the chiller.
Take advantage of ducting in cool night air through the exterior radiator and you might not even need a chiller.
Their system uses a res to store the heat, meaning the chiller needs to run 24/7. As the 12 hour light cycle progresses, the temp in the res will increase, meaning warmer water entering the chiller. So, your temperature will slowly rise, peaking as lights go out.
Sorry for the run and probably semi-incoherent on post, but their retarded diagram just set me off.
And their diagram is pretty stupid, warm water by running it through the radiator, then keep the warm water res in the grow room. Nice way to set up the customers for failure.
I like how their labels for hot and cold water magically depict that the water changes to cold, just from sitting in the res.
Hope anyone who runs something like that is prepared for some bad ass condensation buildup at the radiator.
IMO:
If you want something like this to work, heres how you do it. You need 2 motorcycle radiators, 2 inline fans(dont even need to move much cfm), a water pump, rectangular ducting, hose, and a water chiller.
1st create a box around radiators using ducting(or wood if your so inclined)
2nd cut holes in box for inlet and outlet....6" or whatever you want to use
3rd attach first radiator/box inline between light and fan(just like they depict)
4th attach second radiator/box to fan exterior to grow room
5th attach hose in this flow sequence:
growroom radiator --> water pump --> outside growroom radiator--> water chiller --> growroom radiator
No res needed, only ran when lights are on. Outside radiator is used to lower temp of water to(nearly)room temp before entering the chiller, greatly reducing the required size of the chiller.
Take advantage of ducting in cool night air through the exterior radiator and you might not even need a chiller.
Their system uses a res to store the heat, meaning the chiller needs to run 24/7. As the 12 hour light cycle progresses, the temp in the res will increase, meaning warmer water entering the chiller. So, your temperature will slowly rise, peaking as lights go out.
Sorry for the run and probably semi-incoherent on post, but their retarded diagram just set me off.
mixing water and electricity can be dangerous if done improperly. But it is also very common and very safe when done properly i.e. submersible pumps, water chillers, etc.
I made one of these out of a car A/C evaporator and computer fan. Cost me about $30.00 to put it together. I posted a whole series of pic about it here.
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=106708
RR
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=106708
RR
Unless you have a big chiller the heat generated by the lights will overwhelm the chiller.
The lights generate X number of BTU’s per hour and the chiller has to be able to remove the same number (or more) of BTU’s per hour or the coolant (water) will keep increasing in temp until the exchanger is no longer effective.
Check out my post on the subject.
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=106708
RR
Philosophelon
Member
If you use a large reservoir, particularly if it is on a concrete floor, you will save on A/C. I don't know how effective those units are at cooling though. Allow me to explain a bit.
At the growshop where I used to work, we ran a couple of water-cooled lights. The advantage to water-cooling over A/C were because we had a large reservoir on a cold floor, so the chiller didn't have to kick on for several hours when the lights first turned on because it took a while to heat all the water up. Also, you can put your chiller on a timer, and set it to turn the chiller off when the lights turn off, and let the water cool on its own during the dark period. Finally, even when the chiller is running, having the res on the floor provides additionall cooling to the water. We hooked the chiller up to up to a Kill-A-Watt, and it only used few KwHs a day to cool 2x600s, but it almost doubled when we added another 1k.
At the growshop where I used to work, we ran a couple of water-cooled lights. The advantage to water-cooling over A/C were because we had a large reservoir on a cold floor, so the chiller didn't have to kick on for several hours when the lights first turned on because it took a while to heat all the water up. Also, you can put your chiller on a timer, and set it to turn the chiller off when the lights turn off, and let the water cool on its own during the dark period. Finally, even when the chiller is running, having the res on the floor provides additionall cooling to the water. We hooked the chiller up to up to a Kill-A-Watt, and it only used few KwHs a day to cool 2x600s, but it almost doubled when we added another 1k.
Ok, so here's my set-up,in progress and question....I want to purchase 2 of these Ice boxes to cool 1 1000HPS light in a radiant 6 AC reflector, (with a thermal/heat cover on it) via a 295 CFM S&P TD-150 in-line..which will be going in a Homebox XL grow tent, (56" x 56" x 78.75") with a 409CFM windtunnel 6 exhaust fan connected to a can 66 filter, (scrubbing not exhausting) two 6" air circulating fans and a de-humidifier, with Co2 boost on a 15min on time schedule..[yes exhaust fan up top and active air intake fan,(160cfm) down below via back draft damper,(no Co2 leaks) will be on separate dual-timer to turn off during this period] Growing 20-30 Autos in 3gal grow bags...The reason for the 2 Ice boxes is I want the 1rst to cool the light and the 2nd to cool the garage or room like an AC..<<haven't decided where yet<< My air flow will be as follows; rightside of tent intake air>insulated ducting>Icebox>reflector>Icebox>insulated ducting>S&P in-line fan>ducting>leftside of tent exhaust air....Now, what size chiller would be reccommended for what i'm trying to do?? I will be using a 800GPH-1000GPH pump[better water flow] with a 40 or 50 gal resorvior which will be insulated as well..The co. that makes the Icebox reccommends 1/4 hp chiller to affectivly cool a 1000hps..should I use that size or do I need a bigger one since i wat to use 2 Iceboxes? like a 1/2 hp?? help all my pros out there!!! AND WHATTA YA THINK ABOUT MY SET-UP???? WILL IT WORK??? BTW I LIVE IN HOT ASS FLA. SO I FIGURED THIS WOULD WORK GREAT FOR ME..........
This is not cost effective. I use a six inch Vortex to pull air through 3600 watts ( 6 600 HPS). This effectively cools my hoods enough for me to place closer to the plants without heat stress.
The company said it takes 1/4 HP chiller to cool 1 KW of lights. My fan uses about 200 watts. I do CO2 so I pull air into the lights and back out of the grow room. I suggest using the chiller to cool the roots - that way the plants will be more productive.
clinton
The company said it takes 1/4 HP chiller to cool 1 KW of lights. My fan uses about 200 watts. I do CO2 so I pull air into the lights and back out of the grow room. I suggest using the chiller to cool the roots - that way the plants will be more productive.
clinton
