Vortex, or Elicent?

[Wonderon]

I'm gonna purchase an inline fan soon and just want to make sure I get the right one. I was thinking of getting a 6" vortex with 449cfm to use to run a 6" Can50, and to cool my 1000w SS2 over a 4'x4' area. I have heard that they are very reliable fans but I see lot of reports where people have to quiet them down with a speed control.

I also hear that the 6" Elicent is quieter and quite comparable at 247cfm to the 449cfm of the Vortex, is this true, how much quieter? If I had to add speed control to the vortex seems it could be very true. I want to put the money in the right spot and need this to be effective but not jet engine sounding as it can't be noticeable through a wall which I might insulate to keep the noise down if need be. I could also go with a 8 inch 635 cfm Elicent, and still keep the 6" ducting and same can, that might keep it a bit quieter, if I understand correctly this would create negative air pressure, right? Thanks.

 

[pro engineer]

Wonderon

Moving air is inherently noisy; there are many factors that contribute to the noise blowers make; duct & hood arrangements to name a few. 98% of the time you are hearing the rushing air, not the electric motors. In fact I have seen 100 HP plus electric motors running that are virtually quite. getting back to your questions either brands are of top quality. I use 1-4" vortex for room to room air exchangers, 1-8" vortex on my carbon filter with a speed controller. While I'm working in the GR I like to turn it down a bit. I also use an 8" vortex to air cool my 4-1000 watt lamps. Sense I don't always had them on at the same time I use a speed controller on that blower too.

PE

 

[Wonderon]

I could add a speed control to either one so it I guess I have some options. Only worried about hearing the noise through the ceiling and also through two walls so hopefully its not so noticeable and with a little effort maybe not even heard at all, unless I'm in the room.

So should I go for a speed controled 8" fan, to connect to my 6" ducting and 6" can50? Wouldn't that silence it a bit more? I'm assuming that the can50 is the one I need not entirely sure. Thanks

 

[FreezerBoy]

Model for model, the Elicent is 5-10 dB quieter than the Vortex.

There's no such thing as a silent fan. Anyone in the room will know it's running and want to know why. A speed control will help but, if noise is a concern, don't stop there. Using a muffler, fan isolation box and insulated ducting, all in combination, will allow you to keep fan noise within the room. Now all you have to do is keep everyone else out.

 

[Wonderon]

Now all you have to do is keep everyone else out.

Not a problem, I got my whoopin stick ready...

There will be two walls between the gr and a room I will be hanging out in, maybe insulate them both, hopefully enough. Then I have to worry about the ceiling (this is going in the basement), so above the gr is the most concern. I suppose I could build a muffler type box for it if I had too.

I think I'll give the 8" elicent 635 cfm a go, for a system like this:
Speed contoller, 8" elicent 635 cfm, 6" ducring, and a 6" can50. Would that be the right way to do it? I intend to run it like this: Can->Light->Fan->out

Thanks

 

[petemoss]

If noise is a concern, go with the Elicent. Relatively quiet and easy to speed control without humming, at least that's my experience. Seems to me, most of the noise complaints come from Vortex owners, but then again, Vortex fans are more widely used.

I used a 309 cfm Elicent to pull through a Can 33 then 1000 watt hood and it worked perfectly in a 8'X8' growroom. No smell at all and the glass was cool to the touch.

 

[Wonderon]

If noise is a concern, go with the Elicent. Relatively quiet and easy to speed control without humming, at least that's my experience. Seems to me, most of the noise complaints come from Vortex owners, but then again, Vortex fans are more widely used.

I used a 309 cfm Elicent to pull through a Can 33 then 1000 watt hood and it worked perfectly in a 8'X8' growroom. No smell at all and the glass was cool to the touch.

Well if thats the case then I could downsize a bit and that may take care of even more noise. Maybe I should be considering the 6" elicent 247cfm, 6" ducting and a Can 33, my room is only 4'x4'.

 

[FreezerBoy]

A 250 CFM may be cutting it close on a 1K lamp. Run through threads with 1K lighting and see what they're using.

Uncontrolled, an inlines noise will go through walls and ceilings. With a speed control and muffler, close the door on the fan, you'll close the door on the noise. Enclosing the fan and insulated ducting would probably not be needed unless you were to sleep in the room.

 

[Whatever]

Well if thats the case then I could downsize a bit and that may take care of even more noise. Maybe I should be considering the 6" elicent 247cfm, 6" ducting and a Can 33, my room is only 4'x4'.

The 6" Elicent is like 309cfm and not 247. They're pretty damn quiet. A Vortex 6" is just a bit too much fan for a Can 50 and you'll end up overdriving the filter a bit but considering the flow loss through the scrubber it might be OK. The V 6" is louder than the E because the V is moving more air through the same size housing. An 8" E is pretty quiet and a 10" E, actually in the same sized housing as the 8", definitely howls a bit. I prefer E's even though they are more expensive than the V and also flow less air. The E's are GREAT fans. I've used both extensively.

My experience is most fan noise is on the intake side and the hood/filter setup you propose will quiet things pretty dramatically. Duct mufflers work.

A 6" in a 4 x 4 space cooling 1 1000 should be OK. Just make sure if you run a passive intake you go as big as you can to help reduce flow loss. You're gonna need that extra cfm punch in the summer.

I dunno about that 8" idea. You're not supposed to slow a fan down more than 50% and think you only need about 300+ cfm. If you dial that 8" down just 25% you'll easily be overdriving a Can 50...not good as you will shorten the life of that filter and possibly pull some odor through cause the air won't have enough contact time with the carbon. Also if you slow a fan down too much, even an E, you won't necessarily get humming but the fan seems to oscillate a bit.

 

[Wonderon]

Thanks guys, although I am getting a little confused lol.

I am going to be going for stealth big time, just need to have enough to not smell a damn thing unless I'm in the room, you feel me right? Gotta have the place incognito so will have a hidden door on the gr and the whole room will be behind another room. I'm aiming for something along these lines:
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=95151

I got the elicent numbers from ebay, they have a 6" E at 247cfl. So even if I find the 6" E at 309cfl, should I run one of those, to a can 33 or 50? Also should I keep 6" for everything as to not loose any air force? I was going for passive, how big of an opening would be needed, gonna need to hide that as well.

 

[Whatever]

I think the Can 33 and 50 are pretty closely rated airflow wise but the 50 is more short and fatty and the 33 is longer and thinner but not sure on this one.

If you wanna use a passive intake I'd lean toward the Vortex and dial it down a bit and run the filter near max. If you look at filters they have a min and max air flow recommendation. I think the Can 50 is like 400 or so cfm max.

As for the passive intake...someone once told me the intake needs to be about 10 times the area of the exhaust fan size so a 6" fan has an outlet area of 28.25" so a passive intake that would not impede any air flow would be like 16.5 x 16.5. That's old info and could be way off.

Adorama.com offers a 12" x 24" darkroom louver. I know an actively vented 12" x 12" can handle about 400+ cfm but don't know how noisy those fans are that are attached to those louvers...I'm guessing a bit noisy.

I checked that thread and got a better idea but still tough to recommend so specifics cause every situation and layout is different.

EDIT - with an Elicent 309cfm 6" I've always the Can 50 and have gotten 18+ months use out of each one.

 

[Whatever]

I was going for passive, how big of an opening would be needed, gonna need to hide that as well.

Why passive? Is that due to budget? A slightly dialed down 6" Vortex/Can 50 or 33 combo and an Elicent 6" active intake will still give you enough differential to maintain great air flow and negative pressure in the flower room.

In a 4 x 4 x 8 foot space you could probably dial down both fans. Come summer next year you'll be thankful you have that extra airflow.

 

[Wonderon]

Why passive? Is that due to budget? A slightly dialed down 6" Vortex/Can 50 or 33 combo and an Elicent 6" active intake will still give you enough differential to maintain great air flow and negative pressure in the flower room.

In a 4 x 4 x 8 foot space you could probably dial down both fans. Come summer next year you'll be thankful you have that extra airflow.

Yeah I was thinking of the budget but I def don't want to be too cheap. I might be able to afford two fans. But why would I need two different brands and cfm, wouldn't using the same cfm fan allow better flow? Thanks

 

[Whatever]

Yeah I was thinking of the budget but I def don't want to be too cheap. I might be able to afford two fans. But why would I need two different brands and cfm, wouldn't using the same cfm fan allow better flow? Thanks

I was gonna PM ya about me possibly confusing your thread with another...I'm just getting old...lol.

A 6" Vortex 447 cfm fan pulling air through a Can 50 will probably end up being like 400cfm max (and probably less due only to loss through the filter and most likely more like 350cfm). Then you have the 6" Elicent intake fan flowing only 309cfm...easily a bit less due to general flow loss in the setup...so you have an exhaust fan without a speed controller trying to more air than the intake fan without a controller can feed. You then have negative pressure in your flower chamber and total odor control.

You can most likely get away with just a 6" Vortex exhaust and adequately sized passive intake. With an intake and exhaust fan combo you only need the exhaust to be pulling more air in an open system to maintain negative pressure and doesn't matter how you mix and match fans or use speed controllers as long as you have more air trying to get out than can possible get in.

For stealth one exhaust and passive intake.

 

[Bumble Buddy]

I use a Fantech FX4 to pull through my 1000W hood and it works great, I've even used it to pull through my carbon filter and then the hood which also worked fine. I live in a very hot area and use no conventional air conditioner, though my swamp cooler helps a lot. The FX4 is only rated at 135 CFM at 0" WG static pressure; most all advice I've seen would say that is quite seriously under powered for a 1000W, though I like it a lot because it only uses about 19W and is relatively quiet, can keep the glass about 12" from the plant tops without issues.

If I were starting over I'd consider getting a larger fan and using a speed controller with it, which would probably be a tiny bit more quiet, but I think that may use more wattage than a small fan at full power.

 

[Albert Hofmann]

vortex and elicent are both great fans...vortex are louder because they move more air at all sizes...ask yourself how much air do you need to change in a minute...then decide based on your needs...not a popularity contest...

albert

 

[Wonderon]

So If I were to vent out with a 6" Elicent through a can50, then have a light proofed opening atleast 12"x12", would that be sufficient?

 

[Whatever]

Didn't mean to confuse ya with information before but if you go with 1 fan and a passive intake I'd be more apt to use the higher powered Vortex and dial it down just a bit to drive the Can 50 at max. The min on the 50 is 210cfm and the max is 420. Since the Vortex is rated at 447cfm you may not need a speed controller due to flow loss through the filter, at least 10%. Depending on your situation regarding stealth you may wanna be ready to pick up a duct muffler just in case or at least a cheap speed controller to slow it down but hate to see ya sacrifice air flow.

As for the intake...one of the things that sucks about the darkroom louvers is they are pretty restrictive. I think a 12 x 12 might be too small and the 12 x 24 would definitely be better. A 12 x 12 flows up to 420cfm but that's actively. There's ways to create light proof intakes that will be much less restrictive in comparison to a darkroom louver.

 

[Green Force]

vortex all the wayyyy

 

[mikecar312]

hey man, i own both vortex and elicent fans in 6" and 8". i bought them all to try out. first, the vortex comes with an attached power cord, the elicent you need to buy and wire a power cord (both 6" and 8" models didn't come with a power cord). 8" vortex is loud - not a good choice for stealth. i haven't set up my elicent 8", but i'm sure its still going to be too loud for you. 6" is the way to go, plus you don't have to buy reducers cause its your ducting size. with your filter and hood, you should go with the vortex 6". elicent makes 2 6" models in case you didn't know. definitely get a speed controller. best of luck.