vinegar to lower ph?

[stealthballer]

I am trying to go as few chems as possible.

My stupid ass local water is high ph and the retarded soil I am trying to work with is too, altogether my ph is hovering around 7.5ish. I can't get good soil without driving for a couple hours, its just not worth it. When I was in the town I used to live in I cherry picked moms based on their tolerance of tap water and the soil I could get at my local nursery. I lost all those moms, so I am starting over and frankly I guess I will try now to tailor my soil to the plants and not vice versa.

I don't feel like growing out 100 seeds just to pick 5 mother plants its a ton of work and I don't have the energy for it between school work and setting the new grow rooms up.

I did actually pick one mom already only thing is that chick is hermi prone and clones are hard to root.

anyways I got off on a tangeant.
Vinegar how would I use it to lower my ph whats a delute rate etc etc?

 

[Guest]

Typically 1/4tsp to 1gallon will put ya close to the range if not a little lower.

Make sure ya use dolomite in your soil as that will also help set your pH in the range it needs to be.

 

[MTF-Sandman]

Why don't you just use a clean water source like RO? Then you won't have to fuck with all the PH buffering of the calcium in your tap water.

 

[stealthballer]

well the best I can get without driving for an hour is distilled water, and the one place I was getting my RO DI water from turned out to be full of shit and they were just carbon filtering. I have to buy water by the gallon now and its a PITA. I have an acre pond on the property that filled with rain water and I can start using it I guess, will just look off to my neighbor to see me walk to the back of the property then up into my house with buckets, she is an alky though so she is probably cool actually now that I think of it she saw one of my clones in the greenhouse and just kinda gave me a wink so she is cool. I am just paranoid

 

[Guest]

I'm surprised ya can't just take tap water, throw some pH down in it (bought on the web if you dont have a store nearby) and be good to go. Just let the tap water sit out for 24hrs unless you have well-water, as this will help remove the chlorine

 

[stealthballer]

the water in this town was labeled unsafe to drink because of bacteria content, I only use it to make coffee as I boil that which should kill all the bugs

I feel wierd watering the plants with it

 

[Guest]

A. Nutes are acidry, the stronger nutes-> lower pH, and vice versa
B. RO/Distilled doesn't have much pH buffers (if any), Nutes will pull the pH down, good nutes even into the right range

strong nutes -> low pH
weak nutes -> high pH

plants take up water and nutes, in case the plants take up more nutes, pH rises and EC/TDS falls,when the plant takes up more water than nutes, the pH falls and the EC/TDS will rise, sometimes so much that it burns them girls. Keep your res topped

instead of adding pH up, you can add water, to thin out the solution and raise pH a bit, or, to lower the pH instead of pH down you can add nutes.
pH down(phosporic acid) is toxic in higher doses, best is to use as little as possible, using it with every with addback will lead to accumulation of it.
So, when your pH is climbing(and your EC/TDS is falling), you should add nutes instead of pH down.

Way too many people use half strength nutes (which don't lower the pH enough) and then need a shitload of pH down to get the right pH.

Of course its mandatory to use distilled/RO water for this, since tap water contains alkaline pH buffers(calcium) and by adding back tap water the caclium will accumulate, making more pH down nessecary... better water or better nutes(formulated for tap) will solve this pH problem.

A small res will always fluctuate a lots in DO, EC/TDS, pH and temps.

hope this helps...your in soil so let me check something be back momentarily

 

[Guest]

Lowering Soil pH


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Some plants need a low pH.

Most plants grow best where the soil is slightly acid in the range of pH 5.8 to 7.0. A few plants, however, such as azaleas, gardenias, and blueberries grow best at lower pH levels. Others such as centipede turf, camellias, and potatoes grow well in a wide range of pH conditions, but seem to thrive best in more acid soils. Centipede turf is prone to iron chlorosis (iron deficiency) when soil pH is too high (above 6) and soil phosphorus is excessive due to over-fertilization.
Why is the pH so high?

Sometimes gardeners inadvertently over lime their soil. They may not have tested the soil but lime just because "Granddaddy always did and he had a beautiful garden." Others rationalize that "Sure I limed according to soil test, but I also used basic slag." Others say, "Wood ashes make a great mulch." There may be a few whose neighbor works for company XYZ. Company XYZ has a huge pile of free lime from the mill so "I just had a few dumptruck loads piled in the garden." Any of these situations could create a very high soil pH - so high that some plants have a difficult time surviving.

If soil pH is above 7.0 anywhere in the Southeast, one needs to find out why. Of course, some soils from the Black Belt prairie region of central Alabama are naturally calcareous and alkaline. They are formed from the soft limestone known as Selma chalk. Some soils could be as much as 50% lime and have a pH value as high as 8.3. There's not much one can do about this. Just grow plants tolerant of calcareous soils - not azaleas, camellias, gardenias, and blueberries. Soils that have an artificially high pH, however, may also have a high salt content. Some waste products such as wood ashes (not agricultural lime) applied to the soil could be high in salts (salts of sodium, potassium, etc.). High salts probably caused the initial damaging effects to the plants. With time, rainfall will leach the salts out of the rooting zone. A high pH (up to about pH 8.0) would probably create severe micronutrient deficiencies (iron, zinc, and manganese) and result in a general yellowing and poor growth. High salts will kill plants.

Use fertilizer to lower soil pH.

In most cases, the pH can be lowered simply by using fertilizers containing ammonium-N (Table 1). Ammonium sulfate and sulfur-coated urea are two of the best choices for acidifying soils. Most specialty fertilizers for "acid-loving" plants contain ammonium sulfate or sulfur-coated urea. These are popular sources of nitrogen for azaleas and blueberries.




If you are desperate, try sulfur or aluminum sulfate.

In rare cases, it may be desirable to lower the pH by adding an acidifying agent such as elemental sulfur (flowers of sulfur) or aluminum sulfate. This can be done successfully on soils that do not contain large amounts of free lime. Amounts of sulfur needed to lower the pH of a silt loam soil to a 6-inch depth are given in Table 2. Sandy soils would require less and clayey soils would require more. Elemental sulfur is converted to sulfuric acid by soil bacteria. Therefore, in order for sulfur to work the following must be satisfied:


Sulfur must be mixed with the soil to provide contact.

The soil must be moist.

The soil must be aerated (bacteria need oxygen).

The soil must be warm for rapid bacterial growth.

Time is required for the reaction to go to completion.





Table 1. Acidifying effect of some common fertilizers and soil amendments.

Material Pure CaCO3 needed to
neutralize acidity in 100
pounds of material
------ pounds ------

ammonium nitrate 60
ammonium sulfate 110
32% liquid nitrogen 55
urea 81
sulfur-coated urea 118
diammonium phosphate 70
flowers of sulfur (elemental S) 312
aluminum sulfate 45



Alumimum sulfate may be better for the home gardener to use because he/she is less likely to over-apply the material. Six times as much aluminum sulfate is needed as elemental sulfur. Aluminum sulfate should also be mixed with the soil, but the reaction is a chemical one rather than a biological reaction.




Table 2. Pounds of elemental sulfur needed to lower soil pH of a silt loam soil to a depth of 6 inches*.
Present Desired soil pH
pH 6.5 6.0 5.5 5.0 4.5
- - - - - - - lb. S per 100 sq. ft. - - - - - - -

8.0 3.0 4.0 5.5 7.0 8.0

7.5 4.0 3.5 4.5 6.0 7.0
7.0 1.0 2.0 3.5 5.0 6.0
6.5 --- 1.0 2.5 4.0 4.5

6.0 --- --- 1.0 2.5 3.5

*For sandy soils, reduce amount by 1/3; for clayey soils, increase amount by 1/2; if aluminum sulfate is used, multiply by 6.9.



Sulfur is also an essential plant nutrient.

Do not confuse sulfur as a soil acidifying agent with sulfur as a plant nutrient. All soil test reports recommend 10 pounds of sulfur per acre as a plant nutrient. Most fertilizer sources of sulfur are in the sulfate form (SO4-2) which is readily available to plants, e.g., ammonium sulfate, calcium sulfate (gypsum), potassium sulfate, sul-po-mag, magnesium sulfate (epsom salts), etc. Sulfate sulfur is usually contained in mixed fertilizers. This form will not acidify soils. Elemental sulfur (a yellow powder), the form used for soil acidification, is not plant available until it is oxidized by soil bacteria to the sulfate form. This takes time - usually several weeks. Elemental sulfur is sometimes sold as "flowers of sulfur".

Summary

Before recommending that a gardener add a material to acidify the soil, make sure the pH is too high and find out why. Perhaps using an acid-forming nitrogen source such as ammonium sulfate or sulfur-coated urea will gradually correct the problem. If not, recommend aluminum sulfate as the first choice. He/she is less likely to over-apply this material. Recommend "flowers of sulfur" only for large scale growers, and caution them about over-applying sulfur. Don't confuse elemental sulfur as a soil acidifying agent with sulfur recommendations as a plant nutrient.

Prepared by: Charles C. Mitchell, Jr., Extension Agronomist-Soil Fertility & James F. Adams, Assistant Professor










--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Pufftillicum]

I use a 50 gallon drum to store my water in, that I lug from a spring, it has a ph of 7.7 so I use viniger to bring the ph down! How much lol, not sure dilution rates. I just use a quarter cup full at a time every couple a hours so it mixes well until the ph is to 6.5 or so! But that is for 50 gallons? It usually only takes about a half a cup. I have also heard that the viniger should be 100% viniger. I also have to use an airreator otherwise my water gets stinky stagnant! Hope this helps in some way! Puff

 

[m@rg]

You should try not to do any guess work .
If u can, go and buy a digi ph tester

 

[stealthballer]

I just use soil test kits for farmers as they are easy to find around here.

 

[Guest]

use proper ph down is my advice...if you must use ph down

I use a 50 gallon drum to store my water in, that I lug from a spring, it has a ph of 7.7 so I use viniger to bring the ph down! How much lol, not sure dilution rates. I just use a quarter cup full at a time every couple a hours so it mixes well until the ph is to 6.5 or so! But that is for 50 gallons? It usually only takes about a half a cup. I have also heard that the viniger should be 100% viniger. I also have to use an airreator otherwise my water gets stinky stagnant! Hope this helps in some way! Puff

 

[Guest]

use proper ph down is my advice...if you must use ph down

Yes, if you use vinegar use Apple Cider Vinegar not that distilled white kind. Vinegar will only lower the PH of the water, though, not the soil. The microbes will eat the vinegar right up leaving it neutral in the end. But feeding the microbes does off set, somewhat, PH whoas in most organic cases. But no "Cut & Paste" from me, try the OFC for hows and whys. It's all in the soil... the soil, my friend.

 

[Guest]

why no cut and paste?..if you can find it share it..peace...i dont grow soil at all to be honest...i do study organics...
Organic food is not a fad, it's a phenomenon that's here to stay. The principle goal of organic agriculture is to minimize soil degradation and erosion, decrease pollution while optimizing biological productivity in harmony with the environment.

According to the Canadian General Standards Board organically labeled foods do not represent specific claims to the health, safety, and/or nutrition of such foods. There is no disputing that organically grown produce is better for the environment and tastes better than soil grown crops that use polluting, chemical fertilizers, herbicides and systemic pesticides.

Hydroponic culture incorporates a controlled, ecologically sound environment. Soluble nutrient formulas are re-circulated, and used by plant's roots eliminating environmental waste. Plants tend to be healthier in a hydroponic system than those grown in soil making them more pest resistant. Biological control agents, such as the introduction of predator insects prior to any infestation of destructive bugs, are used as preventative measures. Harmful herbicides are simply not required as there are no weeds in a hydroponic garden!

Over 40% of greenhouses in Canada employ hydroponics in their food production and this figure is rising annually. The limited crop failure, and high yields reported by hydroponic producers keeps the cost to the end user down.

Organic farms must incorporate time consuming, labour intensive weed controls, as synthetic herbicides are prohibited. Expensive alternatives to pest control such as companion planting of non-profit, bug deterring plants is also a factor. To be certified organic, farmers must pay an annual fee of approximately $1,000.00 and undergo a yearly on-farm inspection by the Organic Crop Improvement Association to ensure they adhere to strict organic standards. All this is factored into the price of organic produce available in the supermarkets.

Hydroponics is a clean, safe horticulture technique that offers an economic, healthy alternative to organic soil gardening. A study comparing soil versus hydroponically grown tomatoes and sweet peppers was conducted by Plant Research Technologies Incorporated in San Jose, California. Their research found a dramatic increase in vitamins and minerals in hydroponics, in some cases up to 50% higher in vitamin content.

Plants use inorganic minerals for nutrition, whether grown in the field or in a container. Complex interactions involving weathering of rock minerals, decaying organic matter, bacterial decay of animals, and microbes take place to form inorganic minerals in soil. Roots absorb mineral nutrients as ions in soil water.

The minerals that a plant requires for growth are absorbed by the plant's root system after they have been broken down into their basic elements and dissolved by water. By the time the plant ingests these mineral elements, they are no different from prepared nutrients. For example, nitrogen, an essential mineral element, whether derived from organic or inorganic matter, has the exact same molecular structure and appearance when observed under a microscope. Simply stated, nature's elements cannot be changed regardless of how they are obtained or processed.

Plant nutrition is a term that takes into account the interrelationships of mineral elements in the soil or soilless solution as well as their role in plant growth. The interrelationship involves a complex balance of mineral elements essential and beneficial for optimum plant growth. In prepared hydroponic nutrients minerals are designated inorganic, however they are natural.

Webster's dictionary definition of natural; as provided by nature.

Through extensive research, scientists have been able to determine a plant's exact nutrient requirement at both the vegetative and flowering stages. Researchers isolated the ideal parts per million (ppm) of each individual trace element required. In hydroponics, optimum growth is achieved through natural mineral supplements. Plants are fed exactly what they require, thus eliminating waste. Should a problem occur in a hydroponic garden mineral imbalances are easily identified and adjusted if necessary.

There is certainly a need for concern over the cultivation techniques of soil grown crops. The safety of genetically altered foods and the use of hormones and antibiotics must be further investigated. In hydroponic culture these are not an issue. As consumers become educated about the benefits of hydroponically produced food, demand will increase making it more available. Consumers should look for hydroponics when buying produce! It's a healthy choice that does not harm the environment.

There are many prepared organic hydroponic nutrients and a wealth of recipes for homemade mixtures on the market today. These have been made available because of a huge consumer demand. However, it has yet to be determined if there is any real benefit to incorporating organics with hydroponics.

Yes, if you use vinegar use Apple Cider Vinegar not that distilled white kind. Vinegar will only lower the PH of the water, though, not the soil. The microbes will eat the vinegar right up leaving it neutral in the end. But feeding the microbes does off set, somewhat, PH whoas in most organic cases. But no "Cut & Paste" from me, try the OFC for hows and whys. It's all in the soil... the soil, my friend.

 

[Guest]

the link was the "share"

the link was the "share"

Because it's 557 posts long, talk about looking long winded.
The thread starter, stealthballer is using soil. So I'll stick to the gun, Hydroponics, I ain't got a clue there.