very large scale DWC

[chong'sbong]

Hi fellas, Have been useing my waterfarm for a bunch of years but am always looking for a new way.


What I was thinking was building two identical dwc set ups. Each set up would be 30" wide x 8' long by 16" deep. In the top there would be 30 5" holes that would hold 5" net pots

The first set up would be used to veg the plants. The way I figure it I could veg 30 plants up to about 24 to 30" tall and then just lift the net pots out of the veg system and drop them into the identical flower system. I noticed that my plants really do well in DWC and really seem to thrive. I think it would be a nice smooth transition from veg to flower.

Has anyone tried one of these xl dwc. Do they work well ? are there any problems with this type of system ? Do I need to chill this system ? What would prime water temps be ?

any help on this topic would be much appreciated !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Cajun]

don't do it, that way, they all need seperate chambers so their roots won't get all tangled up.

 

[chong'sbong]

hi Cajun, Thanks for your response. Do you meen don't do it in veg of don't do it in flower ? Or don't do it in either ?

I have experimented with DWC before, Both in veg and flower and have never had a problem with tangled roots.

Why would it matter if the roots were tangled ? Would it hurt the plant ?

My experience with flower is the bigger the plant that I put in flower the more bud I get and the buds are much bigger as well.

Anyone else have any feed back on this subject ?

Thaks in advance for any help

 

[jammie]

hey there CB. i have to agree with cajun. unless your using clones or female seeds the roots will become so tangled that you'll never be able to separate them and pull them out without doing damage to the roots. Are ya planning to do a sog? otherwise 30 plants in a container that size will get real crowded

 

[ArcticBlast]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wmq9SPPgUpc

ArcticBlast

 

[Mickymouse]

Heres what I use for veg.I have a 36 bucket flower room that these go into when there ready.Seems to work good and yes you will need a chiller.

 

[Haps]

1 big unit, 1 big point of failure. In my experience, girls do much better in individual buckets than in tubs, but you might do better than I. This is my veg.
H

 

[FreezerBoy]

Sounds like a bad plan to me. Wouldn't it be easier to swap the lamps?

Tangled roots would prevent the removal of individual plants without significant tearing of roots. This could kill some plants outright and leave broken roots to rot and kill the rest.

While I've started multi plants in a single tub until they can be sexed, it's only for a month or so and takes some to considerable effort to keep these roots untangled. So much so, I developed a "condom" for roots out of an old pump filter bag.

 

[Zen Master]

I have experimented with DWC before, Both in veg and flower and have never had a problem with tangled roots.

Why would it matter if the roots were tangled ? Would it hurt the plant ?

you haven't experimented enough with DWC if you haven't had tangled roots (and you are using a communal reservoir).

the roots being tangled means when you lift them out, you will be tearing away vast portions of perfectly healthy (hopefully) roots, which will hinder your yield no matter how big your plant is.


given the size you specified, if you are growing well and the plants have vigor, at two plus feet per plant, you WILL have tangled roots come transplant time (in the 30"x8' size you mentioned)

if you DONT have tangled roots in a dwc that size/density, something is wrong.

if you are growing all the same strain, if you can transplant without tearing, you could let them tangle in flower as the same strain wont have individual plants competing with eachother, plus the nutrient requirements should be identical if the plant sizes are.

if you are planning on having more than one strain, keep the buckets separate, no question.

edit: and like freezerboy said, can't you just switch lamps? if thats the case and you CAN, then you can veg them and let the roots get as wild as you want as the only time they are gonna be removed is come harvest, in which case it doesn't matter if you tear roots obviously.

 

[Cannabean]

imo root tangling wouldn't even be the biggest concern of his, it would be that all of his plants are using the same res and sharing root volumes...if one plant were to get a disease/root rot/bugs, it wouldnt be able to be quarantined from the rest and all plants in that dwc tub would be infected.
if root rot, which is very common in dwc, you're guaranteed all the other girls in that tub will get root rot. :2 cents:

 

[chong'sbong]

well, I can't just swap the lamps because my veg and flower are in the same room however my flowering is happening inside a 4x8 tent and the veg is just going on in the opening room. Veg is done under compact flaurecent not metal halide.

So my set up now consists of a standard 8 bucket waterfarm system with 4 additional add on buckets. so a 12 bucket system total. What I have been doing up unitll this point is.

Cloneing in a 30 site e-z clone

once the clone has root I transplant it to a 5" rockwool cube to be veged

I place the clone in the rockwool cube into my veg system wich is an ebb and flow tray.

I allow the clones to veg for about 1 - 1 1/2 months in the ebb and flow.


after a while the roots begin to literally bust out of the rockwool.

at this point I place the rockwool cube into my waterfarm system , backfill with hydroton and let her go.

I usually place 3 plants with cubes per waterfarm bucket. I have experimented with this I have placed 3 plants in some buckets 2 in others and 1 in others .

the plants all seem very healthy and produce kick ass bud. Very , Very frosty.


The problem i'm having with this method is that my yeilds are not as high as I would like. I usually have 36 plants in the tent each time and i'm only getting about 1 - 1.25 lbs.

I would like to bump up the volume somehow.


What originally gave me the idea to try this meathod was . I had a couple of mothers past there prime. they were in 5 gal buckets with the bucket top pots. I removet the bucket top with the mom and dropped it into the waterfarm. ( I removed the top piece of the waterfarm) and these plants took off like crazy !!!!!!! I got a bout 3-4 oz off each of these.

So I figured if I could let them veg up to that size then flower them in deep water I would get the same great results.

by the way im useing general hydro nutes and suplementing with cal mag, liquid karma,and sweet.

Does anyone have any suggestions that would help me improve my yields ? Any ideas would be much appreciated.

 

[FreezerBoy]

I'd get rid of the rockwool, E&F and bucket sharing. All of these will only slow down DWC.

 

[williebetmore]

I'd get rid of the rockwool, E&F and bucket sharing. All of these will only slow down DWC.

I'm building this same type system (designing) now.

Not sure i quite understand............


First of all if you get rid of the reservoir, then you need to control
Ph/Nut's/temperature in each bucket.

That in a 30+ system is a pita, just to avoid bad growing habits.

With a common system, i can run one pump, use one reservoir, increase water volume, which keeps large ph fluctuations in check. Matter of fact, it helps keep everything about the system from swinging to much one way or the other in short time.

I can auto dose nuts some, to keep them fresh, doing the fine tuning daily by hand & meter. I can run a ph control system to keep the ph locked dead nutz what i want it.

Hell' if ya wanna get really fancy, you probably could even get away with a small shot of Ozone daily or so.....that could help clean your whole system, and aid in killing somethings that might be causing the threat of root rot in the first place. EDIT: This has not been tested by me yet.


In a closed loop system, i could use venturi valves, which is a much better air induction system then air stones. With a closed loop, i could crank up flow, and use baffles in the grow area to slow flow. I have designed my system up to this point, so each plant has its own grow space, with no roots crossing swords, so to speak.

I can control temps much better also, using a inline chiller.

I can even plum a loop line off the main Res. and run a UV unit to kill all kinds of crap in the system....My system also has a top feed
ring, that can control flow (a valve), the small power-head will be hooked up to a back up unit, so if the main system pump loses power, it kicks on this, and waters like a drip until the main pump returns. I think those few make up for avoiding root rot spread.

Note: not a flame, just telling my point, so you can come back
and tell me why i'm wrong, which will improve my design.....

 

[Haps]

Willie, stop telling folks it is OK to add a shot of ozone to their res, in general it is bad for the plants. Someone else posted that in your other thread. Learn before you teach coral grower.

 

[williebetmore]

Willie, stop telling folks it is OK to add a shot of ozone to their res, in general it is bad for the plants. Someone else posted that in your other thread. Learn before you teach coral grower.

I agree.....i should have wrote that better, not one of my strong points.......

How it should have read:

Ozone in a very low dose MIGHT have good effects, If it's
injected at the RES. and sent down stream to a the grow box.
Someone with a clue needs to weigh in with facts on why this is bad............ozone reverts to o2 in around 20 mins.

How was the rest of my ideas, or you just feel the to need to follow me to prove how smart you are?

I don't have time'....... to many people still want my ideas on cutting edge reef filter designs...


Thanks, you were right, my post should have stated the ozone idea is just a beginning idea for me....

 

[williebetmore]

And just to show i'm not clueless



http://www.lenntech.com/ozone_horticulture.htm

Disinfection of feed water and recycled water for horticulture applications

The sizes of horticulture companies are getting bigger. Because of the growth and consolidation in this sector, sizes of 2 to 10 hectare are no exception. In most cases there are central water feeding systems for rainwater and recycled water.
Risks

Because of these large set-ups, the risk of wide spread damage by e.g. bacterial infection through the distribution are huge.
It's essential to place an efficient disinfection system to prevent this from happening.
Solution: Ozone disinfection

A widely tested and used disinfection method is the ozonisation of water. Disinfection by ozone is being used for more than ten years in the Dutch horticulture.
Lenntech has it's third generation of systems introduced to the market. These systems are operating on high ozone concentrations which makes them more efficient, faster and very compact.

​

 

[williebetmore]

SO after another 2 or so hours of research into DWC & RDWC,

I think i have the solution to using ozone......

Instead of my system begin a dwc, i'm thinking a top drip unit, using 2 rings that i can adjust the flow on. Would be a on off type system.
When the system is not circulating water, i will inject ozone into the holding res. By the time the next feeding is ready, the 03 from the water will have converted into 02' giving me a nice shot to the plants' and still a little disinfecting property's for the whole loop.

 

[Smokeone1]

Evereyone has their own view on this....if they are all female you should be ok! I have seen countless dwc tubs that hold up to 6 plants at a time with great results.....30 is a huge number though u just can't veg a long time...i have dwc tub with 6 cups in it is doing fine!

 

[Smokeone1]

Sounds like a bad plan to me. Wouldn't it be easier to swap the lamps?

Tangled roots would prevent the removal of individual plants without significant tearing of roots. This could kill some plants outright and leave broken roots to rot and kill the rest.

While I've started multi plants in a single tub until they can be sexed, it's only for a month or so and takes some to considerable effort to keep these roots untangled. So much so, I developed a "condom" for roots out of an old pump filter bag.

hey freeze!!? where do you find those condom things act for filters....that is a hell of a idea

 

[FreezerBoy]

I'd get rid of the rockwool, E&F and bucket sharing. All of these will only slow down DWC.

Not sure i quite understand............
First of all if you get rid of the reservoir...

First of all, I never said remove the reservoir.

DWC is about maximizing air to the roots. Rockwool will minimize. Bucket sharing will stunt root growth. Big roots, big plants: Little roots, little plants.

If you want to do large numbers in a tight area, I'd go SOG for which DWC isn't the best choice.

hey freeze!!? where do you find those condom things act for filters....that is a hell of a idea

Filter bags for water pumps can be found at any aquarium store. I wouldn't be surprised to find them in the garden area of Home Depot.