Veg Room Advice

[RedXIII]

I am planning for my first grow and I need help w/ a veg room. For bloom I am gonna run a 3x3 ebb and flow w/ a 600 watter in a hydrohut. I am thinking about putting about 16-20 plants in the tray in 6" pots in hydroton.

Heres my dilema: I don't know what to get as a veg room setup. Will I need more space than my flowering room? I have lots of killer seed stock and want to keep lots of mothers for variety. So I will need a space to hold mothers, and veg seedlings that are awaiting the flower room. I could always keep the aerocloner seperate I guess.

I will have to veg in either another hydrohut cause this will all be in the same spare room ( hydrohut mini maybe?) and wanna use T-5 floros, and use ebb and flow as well. Should I get another 3x3 tray and put it in a mini and just use that? Will I need as much ventillation for my veg? Will they smell bad enough that I will need a whole nother vortex/carbon filter?
(I am getting a 6" vortex w/ can 33 for flower) Can I somehow split my 6" vortex and have it vent both rooms?

Any input is much appreciated!

 

[Guest]

It's best to have veg and flower in seperate rooms or at the minimum enclosures,do you have a closet in the room like 6 or 7 by 3 maybe?That solved all vegetation worries,once I recognized the space cooling and other things fell into place.

 

[Grownz]

I assume you're doing a SOG with bugger all veg time so you probably won't need much room for your clones, How many mothers you wanna keep?

I dunno if 1 6" vortex be sufficent for both areas. You can get a ducting splitter to use the one existing 6" fan, a few hydro stores sell them. Since you only wanna use T5s it will probably cope. Maybe someone with experience with using one fan to exhaust 2 areas will chime in. Set it up with one vortex and see what the temps are.

One question, i thought if you wanna keep multiple mothers for extended periods of time you'd use a bigger light? I've never kept mothers so i wanna know a few of the things you do.

 

[RedXIII]

I do plan on growing smaller plants, flower them at around 8-10" or so. I have never grown indoor before, just a few small outdoor grows. I don't know the size of the grow, I just know i'm moving in a few months and am so excited I am trying to plan it all out right now! but I am sure it will have a closet, and it will probably work! The only thing is I wonder if it will house an E&F table setup, and how big will it need to be to produce enough for my flower room and house my mothers? Will it smell enough that it will need to be filtered with a carbon scrubber? I need to keep this low profile so no smell/ little noise as possible and I don't wanna raise up the wattage.

Will t-5's not be enough to keep mothers? I am thinking on trying the bonsai approach maybe. I want a nice variety, maybe 6-10 or so of the best strains I come across. I have had seeds in safe keeping for a little while now and am excited to bust em out! here is my list so far, got most off of the old Cbay.

Green Giant (feminized) 1.5 packs
Stargazer by Dman (bubbleberry x endless sky)
Top 5 mix
MTF X Cinderella 99 by CSC
2 Nirvana Blueberry
4 Citral
Sweet #3 X northern lights by RR02
8 Sensi Star X ESB
6 Killer Queen
Orange Spice by Dman - Double G (G13 x HP x BG) x White widow
Cinderella 99 by Gmon
10 Skunk #1
MTF by CSC

do you think a 2x4 E&F tray would be big enough for my needs?

 

[Grownz]

Personally i'd keep my mothers in soil. That's just me.
Here's a thread on mothers and bonsai. Stay away from bonsai. It's explained in this thread. http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=56058

 

[Berry_Coughin']

I veg small under daylight CFLs, and flower big...

If I try to go too big in veg I end up having waaaaay to much growth....

 

[Grownz]

People do use bonsai with sucess but it's not suited to cannabis.

Concerning smell, you say you wanna keep smell to a minimum so it might be best to have another carbon filter for your mothers. In saying that, i don't use one with my vegging plants just cos i don't feel the slight plant smell warrents it. It's more of a plant smell than buds anyway. Just depends how far you wanna go.

I've never growin using the ebb'n'flow method but i'm guessing you could just leave your clones in the aerocloner with there long roots til you harvest, then put them straight into your flowering area as you ain't vegin for long. I dunno, as i said, i haven't grown ebb'n'flow.

 

[Jesusbuiltmygro]

spend your money wisely grasshopper

spend your money wisely grasshopper

Well first off I advise you keep your plant counts down. SOG is really a method for more experienced growers.

Depend on your space your best bet is probably to start small but aim to grow enough to always supply yourself. With that in mind and low startup costs this is how I would do it.

I would veg in a plastic container such as the large plastic totes you can find everywhere. You can buy two of them and put one on top the other such as the
Red Greenery's DIY grow Tub. That is a good thread to start with.

If your on a very tight budget or have minimal space or bud needs than you can veg and flower in those things. The thread really shows you best, but basically get some cheap CFL lamps and install them in this large plastic tote. It will turn out giving you like 2 feet or more of grow space which is usually plenty to veg. Many growers mistakenly veg too long and then deal with a large unwieldy plant.

The reason I suggest against SOG is two fold. First it can be hard to master cloning to the degree that you will easily be able to clone 20 plants at the same time. For the best clone rate especially for a newbie rapid rooters or oasis cubes are great. The trick in the medium is keep the right water to air ration and stuff like rockwool isn't quite as good. Perlite based mixes can also work good for cloning and can be transplanted to hydro easily IF you do it when they are young. If your going to hydro oasis cubes or rapid rooters are ideal. Also use a sharp razor and a humidity dome. I find not having a humidity dome and needing it is far better than just having one and not needing it. That is it rarely hurts to have a humidity dome and a small plastic tray with a dome can be had for a dollar or two. Also of course a quality cloning gel. Clonex is a good one.

I think cloning will prove to be the hardest part for you. Since MJ is a weed it's rather easy to grow and very stout, but cloning require precision especially if you want a lot of clones.

Another problem is plant count. If you run a 20 SOG setup with mom then you are going to have like 41+ plants pretty much all the time. Now I can't find the federal plant count numbers but last I checked I think I read they are 49. If you go above that the sentencing CAN get much worse though perhaps this is all a big propaganda scam, but regardless of your laws most growers will agree that it's better to get caught with 3 1 pound plants than 24 two ounce plants. The judge will view you as a commercial grower with much more likelyhood. I think some state laws are also still based on plant count so you should really look into that before you decide to go with high plant numbers.

It's almost certain you will not yield more at your first attempt at SOG then with a simpler grow method. You will be more overwhelmed and at a major disadvantage with no experienced grower to physically guide you. SOG is a good method, but rarely if ever is it worth it or smart to SOG in the US. You can grow just as much with 3 plants as you can with 30 so long as your using up all your light food print effectively. I mean it might be more than three, but that depends on your light size.

I'd go with mdhydro.com for cheap lights. Digital ballast are more than worth it and they aren't anymore expensive than most non digital ballasts. Digitals use less power, generate less heat, put out more light, greatly reduce fire hazard and timer failure, they run both MH and HPS AND perhaps the best of all they increase lamp life by 2-3 times. I really haven't found a better deal than that place. Get the mdhydro ballasts as they are the great deal, add a cooltube for 60 bucks and an inline fan and you are pretty much ready. Might be smart to buy some panda film too as growing usually required light proofing.

Anyway make that veg box right and you can veg in the same room that you bloom and vegging takes up hardly any space when done right. I like the 400-500 watt lights. Beyond that and the prices get oddly high and you start to have too much heat to deal with.

Good ventilation is widely overlooked also by newbies.

I agree moms in soil is best. Maybe get some of those automated watering systems if you need to be out for awhile. I like hydro however for growing. The growth rates yield and bud tightness have always been better for me in hydro. DWC is good enough to start with just MAKE SURE you keep up with the water changes as it is KEY to most hydro.

I wouldn't buy or have shipped to my door any of that overpriced premade crap personally. Many growers wind up buying that stuff and ultimately replacing it with DIY projects, but if you don't want the hassle it's cool.
Ebb and flow is good, pretty dated and a little messy and bulky, but it will work.

I advise a more tree/bush centric growing style with a smaller footprint especially if you ever plan on having to move. Though to be honest most people who think they are doing SOG are really doing bush grows. If you don't have more than like 4 plants per sqft you really can't call it SOG.

Nowdays people are doing 8-16 plants per sqft, but thats crazy when you are hitting like 400 plant counts just to grow like a 4x4 space. Whatever system you get you should really really look into using a bio filter with it. The aquarium folk have it mastered much better than we do and you'll find a lot of the ideas from fish tanks cross right over to a hydro rez, such as bacteria colonies, water hardness, PH buffering. The Basic Water Chemisty is a great thread to learn about the basic principles of all hydro. Ebb and Flow is typically pretty safe, but things like exposed medium will lead to algae growth and the whole thing just tends to get a little gunked up from being right there under the light. At least in the ones I've seen.

I'd pick recirculating DWC over an Ebb and Flow anyday, but I think Ebb and Flow will have a slightly lower learn curve, though not much.

 

[RedXIII]

Wow, thanks a lot for all of your input everyone. Good tip on the mdhydro, I was already planning on getting the lumatek 600 w/ Daystar AC from there along w/ a 6" vortex. I would rather overdo ventilation if anything. I have been going back and forth between doing a lot of DIY projects as far as building the ebb and flow, tent/room, carbon filter, and so on. On one hand, I could save some money, on the other, it would save me time to just buy it. If I just bought the tray, pump, and fittings and maybe built my own frame to hold the table, how much would I really save? I was thinking about getting the 3x3 Sunstream Econotable from mdhydro, i think its less than 300.

The one reason I did want to do ebb and flow for mothers as well was in case i had to be out, its kinda automated and i could leave it for a few days if I really had too. but I like your idea of maybe growing in soil or coco and getting an automated watering system, that sounds much better.

As far as cloning, I am definetly just gonna build a DIY aero/bubble cloner from one of the links here.

I have been reading on OG since 2000, and on icmag ever since it shut down. I took a break for a while and my knowledge got a bit rusty. Done a few outdoor grows here and there, and have been biding my time till I had the opportunity to do a nice indoor. I have gone back in forth from wanting to do organic soil, to soiless organic, to DWC or biobuckets, multiflow, and finally I have kinda settled on Ebb and Flow.

I definetly here you about plant numbers. I don't wanna get busted and get more fucked just cause I have many smaller plants. But the one thing holding me back from doing just a few plant tree style grow is that I really, REALLY love variety. When i did my outdoor runs, I learned that I love to have a bunch of different strains at my disposal. I build tolerances to just having one or two strains, and its fun to have different flavors/highs at your disposal. If i could do a big run with a lot more watts, then i would do tree style cause i could have more plants/variety.

I know that mixing strains on E&F can be tricky, but I figure I will just not overdo the nutes and hopefully I will be fine. I don't really plan on doing a true SOG, I don't want to jam the trays full to the brim. Just not tree style I guess.

For nutes, I am torn between PBP line and Floranova. PBP seems so good being more close to organic, but i've read the FN series is so simple. I have about 4 months to go b4 I will be ready to fire it all up, so I have time to decide and plan every detail.

One question that I can not find is that I know people draw in air from windows, but then also talk about boarding them up/closing them off was well? how is this done, all while keeping the room secure from the outside?

 

[Grownz]

i agree with jesusbuiltmygro.

If you want variety without plant numbers, maybe do a DWC scrog, that way you can keep you canopy pretty even and at the sametime keep plant numbers down...
Whatever you decide i wish you lucky.