UVB bulbs...

[gramsci.antonio]

I assumed you were talking about cannabis extracts as you were relating the info to a technique for gauging THC levels, I wouldn't recommend this technique as it would require accurate and carefully measured extraction being repeated on different samples, something that isn't so easy to achieve without proper equipment. Yes the extracts are easy to make (I'm currently pruging some QWISO I made this morning) but it's not so easy to ensure you make the extract in exactly the same way with different samples to enable any degree of accuracy when you comapre the results.

Surely a Cannalyze kit would be a lot easier?

man they used to did this with arm scales and acetone,

can't we do it nowdays with butane and digital scales?

 

[Guest]

Yes it's do-able, but the accuracy of the results when done in a less than precise manner would be way off imho. You would need to ensure the same wieght of each sample, ensure the tube is packed the same, same filters, same volume of butane, same duration of passing butane through tube, same treatment of BHO afterwards, so many variables to get right and still a lo of scope for innaccuracy even if you did get your technique spot on. I just think it wouldn't give accurate enough results to be worthwhile. I mean, if your comparison sample has say, 20% THC, and the UV-B has increased THc production by 10%, that means 22% THC contect, and I reckon the margin of error on a crude BHO extraction comparison is probably too big to accurately measure that kind of increase.

 

[gramsci.antonio]

as i said before, following a prophylaxis, we can standardize the result, so that we can be precise up to the second digit using the GMS (gram/meter/second) system for measure.

This result came from an old book (1978: Practical method of Analytical chemistry, could be a rough translation of the title) of facoulty of chemistry. If you wish i can give you reference (german or italian, no english, sorry ), because chemistry faced all of your concern a long ago, and with way worse instruments: they were using non industrial age product, not as standardized or pure as ours.



Butane is sold in standard volume/purity, and the polarity of butane is of great help, since it is one the alkane with the best (impurity extracted)/(cannabinoid extracted) ratio.
We have digital scales that are really accurate.
We have plentiful of buds (hehehehe, well, not me , otherwise i would have been stoned at the moment, and no discussing about some weirdo-neirdo stuff ) to try with, in order to build an accurate statistical distribution.


Anyhow the process is quite simple: take the two samples, grind them the same. Weight a glass container, make the BHO in this glass container, let it purge of the butane and then weight again.

If you repeat this process an infinite number of time, the rounding error will became an O(1) (it's just a fancy way to say it disappear), but i think that repeating 100 times could give us an answer accourate enough, considering the natural variation of biological source.


You think 100 times is many? Then you should know how many time is an NMR repeated over a sample...

 

[Aaronponic]

as i said before, following a prophylaxis, we can standardize the result, so that we can be precise up to the second digit using the GMS (gram/meter/second) system for measure.

This result came from an old book (1978: Practical method of Analytical chemistry, could be a rough translation of the title) of facoulty of chemistry. If you wish i can give you reference (german or italian, no english, sorry ), because chemistry faced all of your concern a long ago, and with way worse instruments: they were using non industrial age product, not as standardized or pure as ours.



Butane is sold in standard volume/purity, and the polarity of butane is of great help, since it is one the alkane with the best (impurity extracted)/(cannabinoid extracted) ratio.
We have digital scales that are really accurate.
We have plentiful of buds (hehehehe, well, not me , otherwise i would have been stoned at the moment, and no discussing about some weirdo-neirdo stuff ) to try with, in order to build an accurate statistical distribution.


Anyhow the process is quite simple: take the two samples, grind them the same. Weight a glass container, make the BHO in this glass container, let it purge of the butane and then weight again.

If you repeat this process an infinite number of time, the rounding error will became an O(1) (it's just a fancy way to say it disappear), but i think that repeating 100 times could give us an answer accourate enough, considering the natural variation of biological source.


You think 100 times is many? Then you should know how many time is an NMR repeated over a sample...

If you were to use a lot more butane than would normally be needed for the extraction that might also help with the accuracy. 1 liter of butane per gram of bud would probably due the trick.


Might not be a bad way to test. Though labor intensive.

 

[inflorescence]

i'm speaking about acetone-benzene extraction, not related to cannabis, but to general essential oils.


I know it's difficult to imagine, but not just us stoners make extractions

That's the flaw in your procedure. You are measuring amounts of oil (resin), not THC because resin does not always equal thc.

Some plants have lots of resin and low thc and some plants have low resin and high thc becuase thc is just ONE lipophillic cannabinoid found in resin, cbg and cbd being the others that are psychoactive, not to mention the many other cannabinoids and such in the resin that aren't even psychoactive.

So even if your procedure was perfectly executed, it would be measuring the wrong thing.

 

[l33t]

Correct inflorescence,

You need to measure the THC%

But you need to measure the % of all other substances in the resin if you want to really see the differences UVB does.

Looking for differences only in THC % will only show half the truth . You need to detect all the differences in the resin of treated vs untreated buds.

 

[dontstepongrass]

only way is with gas-chromatograph testing...

 

[DIGITALHIPPY]

I think you two are confusing the issue.

You are confusing resin with thc. They are not the same.
You can have a plant with lot's of resin and virtually no thc and vice versa.
THC is just a small part of the resin gland as a whole.

I think what devilgoob says is partly correct in that MJ has evolved genes over thousands (millions?) of years and such will grow out according to it's genetic predetermination provided an adequate environment.

HOWEVER, I believe this ONLY means a plant will produce resin (NOT thc) according to it's genes but it's the thc production that will ONLY be produced when the uvb interacts with the PRE-THC compound (CBG?) MJman was talking about in the you tube vid.

In other words, a plant will be genetically predetermined to produce a set amount of CBG (resin) no matter what the light BUT it will be the amount of uvb that will determine how much of that CBG will be CONVERTED into thc. (No uvb=no CBG conversion)

In other words THC production is a CONVERSION due to an EXTERNAL force (uvb) and that external force (uvb) is not contained within the genes.

It's a combination of genes AND environment that produces high thc bud.

it sounds like youve grown some pot, thats my ideals behind it all.
i grow the plant with the most available minerals to make the crystals, the hps/mh to grow the foliage, and the uvb to ripen the resin glands. it all makes sence,

DigitalHippy,

What exactly do you mean by ''Ripening''..please make that more clear/specific...

I completely disagree that immature weed doesn't get you high like you say.
I can get high from bubblehash that was made from plants in veg/early flower . THC is there in such plants so are other cannabinoids and they can get you high (in the correct concentration obviously) no matter what you say. I ve experienced it numerous times myself.

==============



As for 'UVB and High' ,



According to OT1,

who did some tests the high was *perceived* as more potent and more psychedelic & more complex.. ..BUT he didn't claim that he measured the THC content and that *he* found more THC in the resin of the buds that had received more UVB light...


According to Sam_Skunkman ,

who also did tests with UVB supplamental lighting, he found *UVB REDUCES the THC content*

--

We all know that THC alone , is not what gives us the 'weed-high' we are all familiar with ..Other substances of our beloved plant affect the high , how we perceive it.

We also know as a fact that UVB light degrades THC.

My personal opinion is that UVB ( at least over a single or 'few' generations) doesn't make plants produce more THC..BUT it DOES alter the high as it changes the ratios of certain substances that are found inside the resin..and maybe even helps the plant produce some substances that otherwise wouldn't be present if UVB light is absent.It may also change 'the way' THC degrades.

People that use uvb supplemental light may have noticed a perceptually more potent and stony high when they added UVB , as uvbdegrades THC to other cannabinoids and *also* alters the resin compounds and/or their ratios. Resin of buds that received UVB light in MJMan's Youtube vid looks more amber which shows that THC is somewhat degraded.. (and this is in agreement with what Sam_Skunkman found) .

So even though you may end up with less THC in the resin of the treated (with uvb) plants , that resin can give a perceptually more potent,complex & psychedelic high/stone for the reasons I mentioned earlier.

I believe my theory is somewhat right and makes sense.

im not sure who any of thoes people are, so i cant see the experement,

~but at this point im calling there bluff and i bet they didnt ensure there grow-room was following natural conditions for the plant, but rather force the plant into a unatural state, producing poor outcomes.

other then that your mind appears to be closed to the way nature works, and what things are found in equitorial regions, where cannabis grows best...

the ripening process is where the trichombes 'mature' from clear and start to convert the light/uvb into somthing that can make us high.

l33t,

I think your right about the ratios but my point was cbg's and cbn's are found in the leaves (mainly of indicas correct?) and these are psychoactive. No one is disputing that.

But it's the uvb that converts these into thc in the resin heads and thc has a distinctive psychoactive affect compared to the other cbg's and cbd's.

I think a lot of MJ developed with the propensity to develop cbg and cbn and over time as the continents shifted the ones that were exposed to more uvb (equitorial) developed so that their cbgs and cbns were converted into thc and there results the different ratios.

true, no one strain has only cbg or cbd or thc but the ratios certainly do follow the pattern MJman was saying in terms of the world map and uvb index.

And it's no coincidence that the higher uvb (and thus higher thc) equitorial strains have a distinctive psychoactive effect compared to the norhern cbg, cbd ratio strains.

What I'm saying is it all comes down to three psychoactive chems (cbg, cbd and thc) and all uvb does is convert more of this into thc and the end product is a different high because of the thc.

i like a high CBD content. IME its found in indicas the most.

well I tried to help, I knew when talking about UVB we were going the path that it "makes more ripe glands or more THC."

DIGITALHAPPY - thanks for calling me a tool, maybe you'd like to point out that you're a tool also for being an asshole - over a near pointless thread on top of that.

i wasnt tryin to piss u off, i was more or less joking the way i said it, i thought, sorry man. but i think this thread isnt pointless.

there is no oils in the leafs that get u high, the amber triches do most of the damage to you whereas the cloudy ones get u a good head change, i never gotten any effect from clear trich's but that dosent mean there is one, no one i know enjoys or seeks that though so l33t must be there all by hunself smoking that veg plant and early flower stuff. its called Asphixiation or Hypoxia , either way that would account for your 'high' feeling more then cannabis plant matter.

 

[l33t]

DIGITAL HIPPY,

''im not sure who any of those people are, so i cant see the experement, ''

Seriously ..You really don't know who Sam_Skunkman is for instance? Ever heard of Skunk? Well he is the one that bred it for your information !Most respectable people in the field will tell you that Sam takes a great care to study things in a quite scientific way , he s got more experience than most in the field and he also uses specialized equipment to measure cannabinoid content in resin etc...Very few have his experience when it comes to Cannabis and research on its cannabinoids ..So I m very surprised to read the following from you:

''~but at this point im calling there bluff and i bet they didnt ensure there grow-room was following natural conditions for the plant, but rather force the plant into a unatural state, producing poor outcomes.''

LOLOL I can only laugh at this , thanx you made my day !LOL

there is no oils in the leafs that get u high,

Of course there are no oils *in* leaves.. Did I say there are there?

the amber triches do most of the damage to you

Could you be more specific when you say ''Damage''?

whereas the cloudy ones get u a good head change

Youre right on this , no one says otherwise..

i never gotten any effect from clear trich's but that dosent mean there is one,

Have you ever tried to make water/ice/bubble -hash from trichome covered leaves from plants that are in midflowering? Well try to make some and I assure you these leaves have THC. And the hash will get you high.Sam Skunkman who has tested immature plants in early flowering said that there is THC there, its just its in smaller concentration compared to fully mature plants.

no one i know enjoys or seeks that though

Do you imply that I , do so?

so l33t must be there all by hunself smoking that veg plant and early flower stuff. its called Asphixiation or Hypoxia , either way that would account for your 'high' feeling more then cannabis plant matter.

If I stick my ..keyboard in your mouth you ll be the one to get Asphixiation..you rude troll. Why the fuck people like you are so damn rude in the first place without no f*cking reason?..Oh I see the reason ..We dont agree with you so you have to react in this immature way.. Did I insult you in the first place and you write all that crap about me? Its pathetic when people start the insults when they don't agree with others on something..so damn childish.

Did you even understand what I wrote..?You think I m some kind of a moron enjoying sitting there smoking veg plants , leaves and stems?I said if you make *bubblehash* from veg/early-flower plants the resin/Hash will contain THC and it can definitely get you High. You dont believe that ? do it , smoke it and also have your hash tested for THC content. Noone said that it will be as potent as hash made from mature buds... But it will contain THC..(not all plants but some)..contrary to what you believe.And can get you high for sure.
---

no one said UVB IS REQUIRED for THC, were talking about RIPENING....
your right that plant produces oils on its own, but the oil glands need to ripen,

I asked what you mean specifically when you said 'ripening' ... not for you to show to me what the stages of maturation of the resin are..Even most first time growers know the 'stages/colors' of resin maturity'..
,..I asked what you meant in that sentence by saying ''were are talking about Ripening'' and to explain to me what you believe uvb exactly has to do with ripening. Do you perhaps believe that UVB is *required* in order for the resin to become ripe? And if yes what would you mean by ripe? I am confused , cause weed grown under no UVB still has cloudy and amber trichs.. Please elaborate.

'other then that your mind appears to be closed to the way nature works, and what things are found in equitorial regions, where cannabis grows best...

Instead of insulting me , you could be more specific and say where exactly you disagree with my thinking and have a civilized discussion.. Saying others are closed minded just cause they don't agree with what you say , only makes you look stupid.Why dont you explain where you disagree? I didn't say that the best weed doesn't grow in equatorial places if thats what you though in your little mind. I also never said that THC didn't evolve *in the long term* as a protection measure against light-uvb.

Now go F*ck yourself and go on to insult some more people...
If you wanna have a civil discussion cut the crap and keep it civil .

 

[DIGITALHIPPY]

look mr who the fuck you callin a troll? who do you help here? ive helps hundreds of people with there plants, and get bombarded with pm thanking me for advice etc. so eat a sock man, i hope your not basing all your ideas on sam the skunk man,
IMO hes a moron, his seeds were all fucking duds too!
no way hes taking credit for "skunk" the plant can smell like that, i bet the indians called it that 100's of years ago too.

im keeping things civil 'l33t' your the one bucking the trend here, telling us how uvb's are pointless, and basing all your info off what some nut-job says.
advising that the plant is getting you high at a very early stage, its all bogus, otherwise no one would be groing the plants out for 2 or 3 months.

i wouldnt waste time on making hash of leafs mid-grow. i tried smoking 4-5-6-7 week old dry buds and thats not what pot-smoking is about, so get out of here with your rubbish.

I completely disagree that immature weed doesn't get you high like you say.
I can get high from bubblehash that was made from plants in veg/early flower . THC is there in such plants so are other cannabinoids and they can get you high (in the correct concentration obviously) no matter what you say. I ve experienced it numerous times myself.

smoking plants in veg/early flower. oh, now u think vegging plants grow resin glands?
where is that high your talking coming from. the plant has no trichomes you must be refering to some oils in the leafs.

talking about shoving a keyboard where the sun dont shine, thats not very nice of you now.
you back and smoke your veg leafs and 3 week old buds and try to calm down ok?

 

[dontstepongrass]

now now guys let's get back on to topic. if someone wants to say that uvb is useless so be it. but let's not draw on people's opinions as much as we should draw from science and facts. i would still love to see some side by side stuff...

 

[gramsci.antonio]

That's the flaw in your procedure. You are measuring amounts of oil (resin), not THC because resin does not always equal thc.

Some plants have lots of resin and low thc and some plants have low resin and high thc becuase thc is just ONE lipophillic cannabinoid found in resin, cbg and cbd being the others that are psychoactive, not to mention the many other cannabinoids and such in the resin that aren't even psychoactive.

So even if your procedure was perfectly executed, it would be measuring the wrong thing.

a) Butane extract cannabinoid and terpenoid.

b) Since we are working on the same clone, this error (if it would exist) would be deleted.



Man, as i said: this tech has been using for ages. It's well known and standardized.

Note: Resin are made of the same elements (H & C) of butane, so they'll mostly (almost totally, but some experiments has to be made) evaporates.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Surely you guys can leave the opinions of others out of this? Here both of you are using Sammie and his stuff for your arguments...one cites tests he has ran, with no idea of what a GC spectrum shot even is. And the other calling Sam a moron.

Both of you have some good points, and both of you look pretty ignorant from my perspective.

I'm not throwing my dog in this ring, just letting you know what I see here.
I highly doubt either of you have the credentials to debate this issue with degrading the issue to a point of it being moot.

Besides...Sam the Skunkman is no moron...unless he tries to call a bucket with a hole in it a Hempy bucket, which anyone knows is blaspheme, unless you have the exact amount of perlite in the mix....
(sheesh guys, get a fuckin grip will ya?)

 

[gramsci.antonio]

Do you imply that I , do so?
If I stick my ..keyboard in your mouth you ll be the one to get Asphixiation..you rude troll. Why the fuck people like you are so damn rude in the first place without no f*cking reason?..Oh I see the reason ..We dont agree with you so you have to react in this immature way.. Did I insult you in the first place and you write all that crap about me? Its pathetic when people start the insults when they don't agree with others on something..so damn childish.

ahahahahahha
ahahahhaahha
hahahahahaah

You must spread some rep....


l33t i never laughed so much just the image of the keyboard is worth a family guy episode...


I have to say that l33t is an experienced grower, even if i disagree on some of his growing method, or if he doesn't do his homework (report on mango haze)

look mr who the fuck you callin a troll? who do you help here? ive helps hundreds of people with there plants, and get bombarded with pm thanking me for advice etc.

heyla man you are always a bit too angry, in many posts you look aggressive... for sure you have a shitload of valuable infos... but:

a) We don't belive you just because you are who you are. Even if you were god. That's the scientific method.

b) man chill out a bit! this would help the conversation a lot!

 

[dontstepongrass]

i think everyone just needs to take a couple quick nips off some ganj and calm it down.

the reason i started this thread was to gather some info so that i could decide whether or not i should be implementing uvb. i had no intentions of people slandering other people and calling respected breeders unkind names. c'mon guys

 

[gramsci.antonio]

i think everyone just needs to take a couple quick nips off some ganj and calm it down.

the reason i started this thread was to gather some info so that i could decide whether or not i should be implementing uvb. i had no intentions of people slandering other people and calling respected breeders unkind names. c'mon guys

well anyhow there's a shitload of valuable infos there... you should be happy... even if the most infos states that UVB would be useless for you...

 

[l33t]

hoosierDaddy,

with no idea of what a GC spectrum shot even is

Who the hell told you I don't know what GC spectrum shot is? LOLOLOL I was first taught what it was ...when I was 15 years old in my chemistry class at school.I dont know what crap they taught you at your school , but we did LOTS of chemistry early on in my country.You have no clue.I really wonder how the hell you came down to this conclusion?..seriously.

And yes I cite other peoples posts and I will keep doing cause I haven't done personal research/tests with uvb , is that wrong too maybe? En-light me! Maybe noone is allowed to cite anymore ? LOLOLOL What the hell is wrong with some people in this thread ? They dont know the background of other people yet they talk as if they know them for years..


Gramsci.antonio,

hehe The report is soon to come man I was a vit busy lately and I like to take great care when I write the reports ,plus thousands of photos to sort through.

l33t

 

[l33t]

DIGITAL HIPPY,

YOU..TELL..ME..to try to calm down ?? LOL Youre a complete joke.

im keeping things civil 'l33t' your the one bucking the trend here,

IF you think that you are the civil one , LOL , go check your first post that you refer to me (post #108) and also go see the things I posted regarding you before that post of yours .See who is not being civil in the first place.Did I insult you in the first place? No. If you are rude to others with no apparent reason don't expect them then to be polite to you.

telling us how uvb's are pointless, and basing all your info off what some nut-job says.

Did I say its pointless? LOL You must be some kind of a retard or something.Dont put words in my mouth. I dont take for granted what Sam says ,I respect him but I ve seen him post contradicting stuff in the past..But I was using his and OT1's experience to draw some conclusions. I didn't say what they say are facts , and I never said what I believe is a fact just my personal opinion/theory. I was clear on this if you read my posts.

And at the end of the day ..Who the f*ck gives you the right to insult people just cause they disagree with you? And I m not the first person to say this in this thread..

oh, now u think vegging plants grow resin glands?
where is that high your talking coming from. the plant has no trichomes

Vegging plants dont grow resin glands?? HAHAHAHAH LOL man ...you dont want to believe me..its OK.. How about if you read it from some more people that say the same thing (there is resin in veg):

Haze plants are well culled to ommit the resinless vegging phenos, they are not many, maybe 25%.

If you still don't want to accept such opinions from respected growers/breeders then ..why dont you go get a microscope and see them for yourself !!!! Stop claiming bullsh*t saying that there are no resin glands in veg plants!! You only make yourself look stupid. I told you if you dont believe me go get a microscope and see them for yourself..You said you have expensive grow equip.. well spend 20 bucks and get a used microscope off ebay and SEE THEM with YOUR own eyes.
----
Oh Why did you only answer half my of post?
Please do elaborate about ripening.You said:

no one said UVB IS REQUIRED for THC, were talking about RIPENING....
your right that plant produces oils on its own, but the oil glands need to ripen,

I asked what you mean specifically when you said 'ripening' ... not for you to show to me what the stages of maturation of the resin are..Even most first time growers know the 'stages/colors' of resin maturity'..
,..I asked what you meant in that sentence by saying ''were are talking about Ripening'' and to explain to me what you believe uvb exactly has to do with ripening. Do you perhaps believe that UVB is *required* in order for the resin to become ripe? And if yes what would you mean by ripe? What you say makes no sense , cause weed grown under no UVB still has cloudy and amber trichs.. Please elaborate. Dont try to skip the Q again

 

[Guest]

This thread is a disgrace and shows why guys like Sam don't often join these discussions. This started out as a serious discussion on a very interesting topic with little existing data to go on and turned into a disgraceful shitfest.

Top get back on topic, I'm halfway through building a UV lighting setup to do some experiments with UV-A (ignoring B, it's too dangerous). I have built 8 panels with 60 LEDs each, 4 panels have 380nm UV-A LEDs, 4 panels have 390-400nm near UV LEDs, and I've also added a pair of small 6W 365nm fluoro tube. Each panel has it's own constant current PSU and I can indicidually switch each panel on/off via a USB interface to my PC which runs a piece of control software allowing me to design complex lighting regimes. I am not sure what experiments exaclty I will do, but I will probably begin by giving the maximum UV output for 4 hours at the 'midday' of my light period.

 

[messn'n'gommin']

This thread is a disgrace and shows why guys like Sam don't often join these discussions. This started out as a serious discussion on a very interesting topic with little existing data to go on and turned into a disgraceful shitfest.

Top get back on topic, I'm halfway through building a UV lighting setup to do some experiments with UV-A (ignoring B, it's too dangerous). I have built 8 panels with 60 LEDs each, 4 panels have 380nm UV-A LEDs, 4 panels have 390-400nm near UV LEDs, and I've also added a pair of small 6W 365nm fluoro tube. Each panel has it's own constant current PSU and I can indicidually switch each panel on/off via a USB interface to my PC which runs a piece of control software allowing me to design complex lighting regimes. I am not sure what experiments exaclty I will do, but I will probably begin by giving the maximum UV output for 4 hours at the 'midday' of my light period.

Sir,

If the intent is to create the best tasting weed around then I think you are on the right track as long as you have plenty of BL. If, however, you are trying to increase potency, I feel that you are unfairly hampering yourself. The main component of THC "activation" is in the UVB bandwidth of ca. 310nm.

http://www.hempfood.com/Iha/iha01201.html

Flavonoid's are mostly driven by blue light while UVA (with a peak of c. 390nm) is thought to be an accessory cryptochrome to blue that further enhances the quality of flavonoid production. i.e. Taste and aroma.

As far as UVB being dangerous, I agree, to a certain extent. The main difference between UVA and UVB is at which depth the radiation will burn skin. UVR is harmful at any wavelength and ignoring any of it will cost one in the long run. However, I think that if time and duration of irradiation is used in moderation the dangers can be reduced to an insignificant amount.

Namaste, mess