UVB bulbs...

[Rusty Trichome]

Ummm...that may be tough. We live outside a small town in the middle of the desert...literally...and the only folks that come over are from wifes church. Pretty sure that asking them would be counter-productive, as they don't strike me as being cannaseurs.

But, I can honestly and accuratelly report my findings along the way, though. I'm no expert or breeder, but I do know my strains very well, both pre and post-harvest.

Already the plant I have under the light is showing a bit of accelerated aging, and leaves have a papery feel and sound to them, but no neckrosis yet.

Here's the bulb, and the plant, which is almost 6 weeks into 12/12, and about a week into UVB at 8 inches distance. The last picture has the same species in veg, not sure which one was this one though.

I love pictures, but how do I post a thumbnail link instead of the big ones?

 

[N707]

that is a fair assessment.

N7 - doing a few preliminary searches i was unable to locate any uvb leds. unless uvb is contained in some of the uv leds you are referring to, this may be apples and oranges. not to be a dissenter... :wink:

A full spectrum uv led puts out UVB, I no longer have my meter but the uv leds I used to make my scorp lights made the reptisun 10.0's and other reptile uv lamps look silly, like multiple times the output. In this entire discussive thread you guys (not you dontstep, but the general thread) have missed on one big topic. The fact that the in depth processes of producing cannbanoids are in theory in relation to UVB, and the reptile lamps you can purchase put out more than just UVB.....so to think that it is a sole factor is as irrelevant as thinking it boosts precursors. I would concentrate on figuring out excatly what energies are used to produce what 'oids, and what those oids' do specifically to us...then find lamps that can be used to ripen. Or you could do it the way a normal rational guy would and experiment a bit. I personally found that unshielded metal halides, specifically the ushio and xm 20k double ended's produce BY FAR more UV and UVB than any lamp I could purchase. Even at 150 watts they kicked out more UV than the 600 watt hps and the 400 wat mogul base MH's. If the lamp is kicking out UV then I can assure you it is also emitting other types of energy that we currently donot take into account. For instance...no one speaks of PAR...which imo is the soul most important measurement you can get. With PAR alone one can determine whether a lamp is suitable for growing anythign from coral to cannabis, yet I rarley here it tossed around due to the fact that not many poses the expensive meters and that info is not given by manufacturers. Which is very unfortunate because it is much more relevant thtn lumens/ft2 or any other numerical value of lighting ime. If you really want to disect lighting, check out some of the threads on PAR on reefcentral, they have afew guys that do scientific level research with very informative results. Im suprised no one here has gone to such lengths considering the potential value of out gardens.

 

[FoothillsFarmer]

With regards to increasing THC, I don't know if adding a UVB source works or not.
With regards to increasing aromas and flavors...IDK...but I have a strong inkling.

But what I do know, is that yes, Marijuana Man is right, that there is a cause and effect for all things growing. For many generations cannabis evolved outdoors, and has always been subjected to varying degrees of UVB. If it hadn't learned to deal with the sun, (and by extention, UVB) it wouldn't have survived. Nor would it have developed the exact compounds that get us high. But does this mean that without this interaction, there is no action...?

Did the plant develop a means of dealing with the heat, which formed these compounds to be available to the plant, for what...defense from insects and vermin...defense against moisture loss...defense against the full spectrum of sunlight...? Or was it a self defense measure in response to the the UVB?

Did the plant develop it's trichome structure in the shape of a light collecting sphere to reflect the damaging rays, or did it develop to collect the rays?
Is it curently possible for a cannabis strain to retain latent responses pre-programmed in the genes, and express itself weirdly when exposed to artificial sunlight sans UVB? (HID's)
Does UVB degrade THC during growth? (is it degrading the THC, or is it helping to make the THC?)
Does it degrade CBN's or CBD's during growth?
Would this degradation be the ratio necessary to form those compounds responsible for a proper couchlock?

I guess I'm confused, but my 7w self-ballasted UVB reptile bulb got here last week, and have had it on a 5 hour schedule ever since. Not that I don't trust any of the opinions previously expressed, but I haven't heard one peep about evolutionary cause and effect that may have triggered this plants initial genetic reasoning behind it's ability to fuck us up, nor any talk of latent expressions hiding in the recesses of the genes, which may help understand the issue...Seems to me we are missing half of the discussion.

Or, I'm on the wrong track, but have a new experiment to satisify my curiosity and boredom.

I would like to know how that 5 hr schedule works out for you, I was considering running one on a 3-5 hr schedule myself during the middle of the light cycle.

I don't believe for one minute that uvb doesn't affect the plants in a positive way. The whole idea with indoor growing is to mimic the Sun as best as possible and the Sun provides these plants, from birth, with ultra violet rays... I think if uvb is used on a tight schedule starting out at about 3 hrs during the middle of the light cycle and brought up in 15-30 min intervals depending on the plant's response, it could show some benefits. even if it is only a faster finishing time, I think the small investment could be palpable... just my

 

[earthbob]

Rust, I see a 20W bulb there with 7 percent uvb output - that's better than a 7W bulb. I still think 8 inches is too far away though. I started my 26W about that far away at the sixth week of flowering. I moved it closer everyday until it was about 4 inches away and kept it there till harvest at the tenth week of flowering. In my case the uvb had no visible effect on the vegetative matter (just the pistils turned brown and trichs got cloudy one week earlier). If you get necrotic spots it would be because of other factors IME. BTW, what strain is that?

 

[Rusty Trichome]

Rust, I see a 20W bulb there with 7 percent uvb output - that's better than a 7W bulb. I still think 8 inches is too far away though. I started my 26W about that far away at the sixth week of flowering. I moved it closer everyday until it was about 4 inches away and kept it there till harvest at the tenth week of flowering. In my case the uvb had no visible effect on the vegetative matter (just the pistils turned brown and trichs got cloudy one week earlier). If you get necrotic spots it would be because of other factors IME. BTW, what strain is that?

Shit...didn't even notice the 7w/20w mistake...thanks. The retailer said 12" max effective range, so that was what I based my initial distance on, last week.
Am waiting to get the clones mature enough to do side-by-sides, which will likely be in a month or so. Been really cold here, so might be an extra week. Will likely lower the bulb today, but there's no hurry...just looking for my parameters right now. Plus, I really want the seeds from this lady, so I don't want to go overboard and screw them up.

The plant shown, is called PokerFace. Around four years ago, Reeferman was looking for guinea pigs to try his "medical R&D strain", under the premise that those that grew it out and posted a grow report, would get sent the name of the strain. I did, I did, he didn't. (I grew, I posted, he didn't tell anyone the strain) So, I've taken it upon myself to name it. He had his chance, many times...but would never respond to any of us.

FF: I'm with you on that one, too many unknowns for us simple closet rats.

N707: ??? You lost me at every sentence. But no, I'm not planning on separating light down to it's core...I'm testing a UV bulb for potential. After all, this is a UVB thread. I'm not looking to grow faster, as I can only smoke it so fast, lol. I'm looking to see any difference in either aroma, flavor, aftertaste, volume and quality of my trichomes. (I don't really think anything but genetics can determine how many trichs per square inch) But light or darkness can not increase this in my honest opinion. Perhaps over time, (many generations) but not in one grow.

 

[N707]

N707: ??? You lost me at every sentence. But no, I'm not planning on separating light down to it's core...I'm testing a UV bulb for potential. After all, this is a UVB thread. I'm not looking to grow faster, as I can only smoke it so fast, lol. I'm looking to see any difference in either aroma, flavor, aftertaste, volume and quality of my trichomes. (I don't really think anything but genetics can determine how many trichs per square inch) But light or darkness can not increase this in my honest opinion. Perhaps over time, (many generations) but not in one grow.

My bad...lol. I went into rant mode...= P.
I was giving suggestion to the fact that maybe we should try to consider the fact that even though your playing with UV and UVB bulbs, that they give off other types of energy that contribute to the production of cannabinoids. I think photosynthetic available (alt) radiation should be factored in more than any other measurement whe giving out values for a lamp. That doesnt have a direct link to UVB in obvious ways, but will give a better understanding of which light gives off the most useable energy that the plant will uptake and convert for its own needs.

As for UVB, I would check out the double ended HQI metal halides. The ones that donot read "Uv shileded" on the bulb give off more UVB (and most likley many others in the UV spectrum) than another lamp period. Not to say they give off more than an actually pure UV lamp, but certainly far more than the reptile lamps that you can get from chain stores such ans the 10.0's and other cfls fouro's.
I used to have a nice UV meter (measures UV types a, b, and c.) and the double ended halides yeilded better in all areas. Now whether that is good fro the "ripening" is speculative at best. I simply am suggesting it to try out. The shop lights that com with the metal grill gaurds and sit on a tripod use DE halides, and run like $18-$50 for the light, ballast, ans all the components necessary to run them. Just a thought.

 

[Rusty Trichome]

Ahh. Thanks for breaking it down a bit, lol. My eyes aren't what they used to be, and setences run together. Do yourself a favor...never get old.

Are those like mercury vapor bulbs? (the double-ended ones) edit: Just looked 'em up...not the same, but expensive. I used to use mercury vapor, 25 or 30 years ago, before MH or HPS was available and cheap. But they run at 1,000 degrees celcius, or close to it. (kidding) Anyway...I'm just dippin' my toe in the waters, without having to invest cash I don't have.

If I can see, smell or taste any improvements, I'll definatelly consider the options. But I live in the desert, and flower in an outdoor shed. If too hot, experiment over till fall. Temps are astoundingly difficult to drop out here. (but it's a dry heat)

 

[N707]

Ahh. Thanks for breaking it down a bit, lol. My eyes aren't what they used to be, and setences run together. Do yourself a favor...never get old.

Are those like mercury vapor bulbs? (the double-ended ones) edit: Just looked 'em up...not the same, but expensive. I used to use mercury vapor, 25 or 30 years ago, before MH or HPS was available and cheap. But they run at 1,000 degrees celcius, or close to it. (kidding) Anyway...I'm just dippin' my toe in the waters, without having to invest cash I don't have.

If I can see, smell or taste any improvements, I'll definatelly consider the options. But I live in the desert, and flower in an outdoor shed. If too hot, experiment over till fall. Temps are astoundingly difficult to drop out here. (but it's a dry heat)

Ya the DE metal halides are pricey online as they are marketed specifically for reef aquarium applications. There are work lamps at homedepot, lowes, ect, that utilize double ended halides and are cheap, like $18-30 for the whole setup including the lamp....just to clarify. I found the of all lamps available, the metal halides from Ushio and Xm are by far the best in the way of actual PAR emmitance and coral/plant growth, especially when combined with a digital ballast.

 

[earthbob]

N707, "There are work lamps at homedepot, lowes, ect, that utilize double ended halides and are cheap, like $18-30 for the whole setup including the lamp" huh???

 

[earthbob]

N707 said "There are work lamps at homedepot, lowes, ect, that utilize double ended halides and are cheap, like $18-30 for the whole setup including the lamp" - huh??? Are you thinking of halogen work lights?

 

[Rusty Trichome]

How hot do they burn? Would I need an additional 5-ton A/C to cool it?

 

[inefectualize]

i think that he means that they operate with the same bulb holding mechanism as an HQI ....i like hqi's, however than can give you one hell of a hot spot if you are not careful (not so big when it is sitting over an aquarium) i have a 250 in my flower room .... when the bulb first fires it emits an ozone smell until it heats up and spectral shifts.....it is surely producing UV .... for what its worth hqi's are also a great format for diy water cooling!

this last shot is a veg cab with two 70 watt hqi's aand TWO 13 WATT LINEAR CFLS to balance spectrum

hqi's tend to keep plants shorter and make stems tougher...neat stuff

 

[magiccannabus]

After seeing those last two pictures I keep expecting HAL to start talking to me... "You need to tend your plants Dave. What are you doing Dave? They need fertilizer Dave" lol Hopefully all of you are old enough to get that...

 

[Rusty Trichome]

the metal halides from Ushio and Xm are by far the best in the way of actual PAR emmitance and coral/plant growth, especially when combined with a digital ballast.

Compact fluorescents work pretty good for corals, too...(my first saltwater tank) 26 gal. flat-back hex - mostly 'softies' and some LPS's, but some clams and annemone's, too...

 

[N707]

N707 said "There are work lamps at homedepot, lowes, ect, that utilize double ended halides and are cheap, like $18-30 for the whole setup including the lamp" - huh??? Are you thinking of halogen work lights?

No, there are some that use 70 watt hqi's. Also, there are halogens that are nearly identical to double ended halides. They use the same ballast formats and are interchangable all teh way down to the ceramic sockets. Though the double ended halogens are very good at producing par efficently as well, moreso than some HPS.

 

[inefectualize]

could you show a link to a hqi work light? ive never seen one..... halogens make too much heat per PAR in my opinion...

 

[N707]

could you show a link to a hqi work light? ive never seen one..... halogens make too much heat per PAR in my opinion...

www.toplightco.com/acatalog/Work_Light_Floor_Standing.html

This is just an example for visual reference. I've found that basically any of the work lights that use the HID's are suitable for plant and or coral growth. They are not ideal persay in certain situations but if you shop around hardware stores and craigslts you can find some pretty sweet lighting options.
The DE halogens produce managable amounts of heat, can be retrofitted due to teh tiny ballast size, and because of the housing designs can very easily be vented and cooled. The name brand HQI's are rediculously priced, but off brands are competitive and sometimes rediculously cheap.
HPS gives off more heat than most DE hid halogens, and a bit better par ratio. Though I think the best jusdge for useability are the plants. For $18-30 or $40 for a complete little fixture I think they rock. Of course they arent the best thing for mass production, but are great for personal grows and custom setups that require small fixture footprints.

 

[N707]

How hot do they burn? Would I need an additional 5-ton A/C to cool it?

The HQI's that the aquarium industry rapes people for pricewise produce noticably less heat compared to a similar sized HPS or mogul base metal halide. Ime the 150-250 watt HQI's and the DE halogen HID's produce roughly equivelant amounts of heat which is far less than a similar sized HPS, but a bit variable in the way of practical par output. HQI's on a nice electronic ballast literally cannot be beaten as far as PAR output, alot of intenisve product comparison can back this up in quantative ways.

In relation to the op, I found that my HQI's had more benifits than just being cooler running and longer lasting than the mogul based halides and hps I used to grow caluerpa, they seem to give off better spectrums in general. This is especially true as I've stated with an electronic ballast.
The way a coral colors up under different lighting (with optimal water chemistry) is due to it developing pigments to protect it from UV energy emitted by our lamps, I use this as a reference as ime and others I found that a nice HQI will color up corals far better than other halides and HPS.....and I'm speculating that it is due to the intensity and amount of UV spectrums that the HQI's emit. I know we are dealing with terrestrial plants here, but the principals still apply in way of UV. I'm not incinuating that a plant will "color up" under HQI's, but rather that they emit a much richer and wider range of UV than other lamps from my contrived and ovverated speculation....lol. Rant mode disengauged, we now return you to your regularly shcedueled progam.....

 

[Smokerman]

I have a few of these, would they work?

UV-A Blacklight Bulbs
[SIZE=-2]Low-Pressure Mercury Arc Lamps[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-2]UVA wavelength range: 315nm - 400nm[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-2]Peak: 352nm[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-2]Used for: photosensitization and photochemical reaction applications and insect traps. Output includes visible light.[/SIZE]

UV-A Blacklight Blue Bulbs
[SIZE=-2]Low-Pressure Mercury Arc Lamps[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-2]UVA wavelength range: 315nm - 400nm[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-2]Peak: 352nm or 368nm [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-2]Used for: tests, inspections, examinations, stage illumination. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-2]Deep blue filter glass absorbs visible light, transmits near UV. [/SIZE]

UV-B Bulbs
[SIZE=-2]Low-Pressure Mercury Arc Lamps[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-2]UVB wavelength range: 280nm - 360nm[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-2]Peak: 306nm[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-2]Used for: inspection, analysis, testing (UV resistance of paints, plastics, rubbers), dermatology phototherapy[/SIZE]

UV-C Germicidal & Ozone Bulbs
[SIZE=-2]Low-Pressure Mercury Arc Lamps[/SIZE]

[SIZE=-2]Germicidal Peak: 253.7nm[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-2]Germicidal plus Ozone Peaks: 253.7nm and 185nm [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-2]Used for: sterilization of surfaces, materials, air and water[/SIZE]

What is Ultraviolet Light?

Ultraviolet light is invisible to the human eye. It is part of the electromagnetic spectrum that lies beyond the purple range of the visible spectrum. The ultraviolet (or UV) spectrum has wavelengths between 100 and 400 nanometers (nm). The UV spectrum is further divided into wavelength ranges named UVA, UVB, UVC:

UVA: sun tanning, testing, inspection, insect traps, stage effects, blacklight, phototherapy* (315-400nm)
UVB: sun burning, inspection, analysis, testing, phototherapy* (280-360nm)
UVC: germicidal (253.7nm), ozone producing (185nm)

*Phototherapy for treatment of skin diseases uses bulbs emitting in the UVA and UVB spectral range. There is also non-UV phototherapy for treatment of infant jaundice. These bulbs, "bili lights", are low or non-UV emitting fluorescent or halogen sources with strong blue light in the visible spectral range of 425-475nm.

 

[inefectualize]

why are you using the terms DE halogen and hqi interchangeably? they are not the same...i have never seen a halogen with a ballast....i know that the lamps you are talking about have the same bulb holder but you can't just put an hgi hid lamp in there and turn the thing on....i have made many diy hqi fixtures using non-brand name bulbs and you are still looking at minimally 60 bucks for a bulb and ballast.....are you talking about hqi's or halogens?? their spectral output will be VERY different and halogens will be throwing many more watts of infrared than an hid of the same wattage....please clarify....if you can find me a true hqi lamp assembly for 40 bucks i will eat my shoe....your link doesnt work...