Using nutrient solutions to change pH?

[King of LOL]

I'm growing for the first time, and I've started looking into buying pH correction solutions. I got a nutrient starter kit from Hesi, and I was looking at pH +/- from the same brand. When reading the product descriptions, the pH +/- solutions are based on either phosphorus (pH - bloom), nitrogen (pH - veg) or potassium (pH +).

If the pH correction liquids are based on the same elements that are used in the nutrient solutions, why can't I (or can I?) just use the nutrient solutions to correct the pH.

Is it because the nutrients have a combination of NPK, while the pH correction liquids only have either N, P _or_ K?

On the product description of Hesi Bloom Complex it says: "... Hesi Bloom Complex also contains a pH corrector to create the slightly acidic value needed during this plant phase."

Hesi Phosphorus Plus and TNT Complex are both also slightly acidic.

I guess my question is:

If all the nutrients are acidic, and both the acidic pH correctors contain fertilizing components - will it be sufficient to only buy the pH UP solution and use the other nutrients to bring pH down when needed?

(Another thing that comes to my mind when writing this is, is there a way to alter the pH without adding fertilizers? I'm using pretty pre-fertilized soil for my plants and I wouldn't want to burn them during the first week trying to change the pH )

Recommendations and opinions/thoughts are highly appreciated!

 

[bens lab]

You only really need to pH if you're growing hydro, theres no need in soil unless you're using very unusual water.

 

[Scrogerman]

Citric Acid for altering your water/nute solution for soil growing. There are a few companies that sell it in liquid form, like Canna etc! Take a look at the Canna website for a more detailed explination!
Peace.....Scroger!

 

[King of LOL]

Ok, thanks bens lab!

I probably should have mentioned that I grow in soil.

I've read about others that use pH correctors in soil though. Anyone else?

Edit: Thanks Scroger! Will check that out.

 

[King of LOL]

By the way... regarding Citric Acid. I've read that Citric Acid only works as a temporary corrector... and that the pH will swing back up pretty quick?

 

[Scrogerman]

You only really need to pH if you're growing hydro, theres no need in soil unless you're using very unusual water.

IMO this is NOT correct, sorry buddy it just aint! Most Tap around my way is 7.8-8. On a water irrigation cycle i wouldent like to try adjusting the soil PH to that. Optimal in soil is 6.3-6.8.
The elements in NPK ferts will lower solution PH as they are acidic. Citric for Soil/Organics.

 

[Scrogerman]

By the way... regarding Citric Acid. I've read that Citric Acid only works as a temporary corrector... and that the pH will swing back up pretty quick?

Go have a look a Canna's Website!
Your Thinking of Vinegar if im not mistaken! Dont bother with it!

 

[King of LOL]

I found it! Also found a nearby supplier. I will try to read a little more about that stuff... thanks alot for the advice! Is there a reason why you would recommend the organic pH adjuster rather than the other ones? I mean, are they particularly better for soil? Or is it good because its not based on fertilizing components?

My tap water is around pH 8. Does that mean I probably wont need any pH up? Since I'm only in my second week of growing, and haven't used much nutrients yet, I have no idea how acidic my water solution will become when I start adding nutrients!

Thanks again!

 

[Scrogerman]

Hey LOL Dude!
No-Problem!- I would rec this because it is designed for soil or organics, whereas P & N PH down is designed for hydroponics, i like to stick with the programme myself, although others will tell you different!
If your carefull you never need PH up bro, just use Un-PH'd nute solution or plain water to raise PH.plain water is probably better for your needs!
Your Tap has a similar PH to mine, it usually works like mix at 1/3rd to 1/2 strength nute solution, and your PH will be around 6.5-7 approx! Try using 1/4 of a mil of citric at a time to 10 ltrs of water!, mix well check PH and repeat untill your happy. You may not even need to adjust PH after adding nutes so add them, mix well and check PH before you go adding PH down/Citric!
Hope this helps!/..........Peace...........Scroger.......

 

[bens lab]

Sure i understand that some people with particularly bad water might need to ph it. Its pretty unusual I think though. I think my water is about ph 8, 0 ppm, never had any problems in soil with that, I believe the compost buffers it? i think..

 

[treewizard]

Assuming that you are dealing with a soil grow, I would pay more attention to the soil pH rather than the nutrient pH. Just pour straight water in, meausure the pH of the runoff, then act accordingly. You can buy citric acid powder in the bulk section of Fred Myers. I'm sure that they aren't the only one. At any rate, too high of a pH can be helped by rain water, vinegar, humic acid concentrates, fulvic acid concentrates, and list of other stuff. Now because of the nutrient lockout issues associated with extreme pH issues, you are bound to cause more stress by using additional nutrients to fix the problem. Too low of a pH is best dealth with using dolmitic lime. I have a mother plant who's pH was getting too low. I top dressed with lime and with in two days things were normal. I was impressed with its efficiantcy even as a topdressing. However is you use your pH meter and let your soil mix stabalize for a few weeks prior to planting, I doubt that you will have too much room for concern.

 

[King of LOL]

Hey guys, thanks for your input. I've been searching some more and from what I find this seem to be a constantly ongoing discussion.

Here's a thread from 2006 about pH in organic growing: http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=30995&page=1&pp=15&highlight=adjusting+pH

From the information I've collected it seem that people in general have less problems with pH in soil mixes (compared to other mediums) due to the soil buffering. Although, to me it makes sense to water with a solution as close to the desired soil pH as possible in order to not force the plants to do unnecessary work. Just like the body stunts muscle growth when you drink alcohol, maybe the plants have to put more energy into absorbing nutrients if the pH is not right... I'm just guessing LOL!

I think I will buy some citric acid and use it as a pH down and then simply fill with extra tap water if things gets too acidic (since my tap water is a bit alkaline).

 

[Bud Bug]

If you need to raise the ph you can use potassium silicate.