Using my outdoor buds for hash....Super low yields

[Organilush]

My yields are super duper small and I don't know what's going on. This most recent time I used buds and I was hoping that using full buds instead of trim/larf was going to make a difference in my yields...but it hasn't (at least not drastically). I feel like I'm wasting a lot of good herb that could be smoked.

I haven't actually weighed anything out but just from an estimation of this most recent time I used around 3 to 4 ounces of resinous sticky/oily buds that are packed full of trichomes and after more than an hour of washing I ended up with around only 1.5g of hash. (good quality hash tho, melty/oily under heat)

I broke the buds down into pieces about the size of a small marble or comparable to a dime & penny in diameter. I let the buds soak in ice water for more than an hour before I start to wash them, and even after soaking for that long the buds were still dry on the inside when I would break them open. I've heard of people letting the buds pre-soak & hydrate for 15 to 20 to 30 minutes before but never an hour, and my buds are still dry after that long.

I washed/agitated for more than an hour and even after that long (1+ hour of soaking and 1+ hour of washing) most of the buds were still totally dry and packed full of trichomes on the inside. And even on the outside of the buds many of the trichomes were still intact.

I've tried agitating & stirring the water more vigorously/aggressively but that doesn't really make any difference. I'm using plenty of ice and the water is as cold as it gets, and I'm doing it all outdoors at night when it is around 40 degrees or cooler out so the ice in the water doesn't even melt much.

It is the same for every strain I've used and I've washed somewhere around 5 or 6 different strains so far over the past 3 years (I'm using stuff from my outdoor plants). I've noticed a difference in the quality of the hash between the strains but no drastic difference in yield.

I run the wash-water though the 220, 120, 45, 25 bags...The 45 is always where 90%+ of the material is.

I'm thinking about letting the buds soak & hydrate in ice water overnight for 10 to 12 hours and then trying to wash them for 3+ hours. I've just never heard about anyone having to do that. I've heard some folks wash for only 10 to 15 minutes (2 to 3 times) and up with tremendously more hash than I do.

I've seen people wash like 14g of buds for 30 minutes then run the water through a few small 1-gallon bags and end up with more hash than I'm getting from 75gram of dank buds washed for more than an hour.




Has anyone else experienced this or heard about this happening?

Are most strains just not ideal for making bubble hash even if they are frosted with trichomes & resinous? And only certain genetics/strains will "drop/let go of their trichomes?

And does anyone know of any other online forums that specifically discuss hash/rosin and other cannabis extracts? I often have questions about things related to the topic but I don't know any of forums that discuss such things.




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[HerbChambers]

Try freezing your material beforehand if you can.

You don’t need to soak for an hour.

Do two or three short washes instead of one long wash.

 

[Organilush]

Try freezing your material beforehand if you can.

There was one batch of herb that I froze a couple years ago before washing it in the ice water, I don't recall it making any difference in the yield but this is something I do plan on trying again when ever I get around to doing another run.

You don’t need to soak for an hour.

If I don't soak the bud for that long then it remains dry on the inside and never loosens or opens up, even after soaking in the water for that long most of the bud material remains dry. When I break open a piece of a bud it is still dry on the inside even after soaking for an hour. The trichomes seem to act as a barrier that prevents water from penetrating the bud and hydrating the bud.

And a bud that is not hydrated won't loosen or open up and expose all of the trichomes on the inside. If those trichomes are never exposed to turbulent cold water & ice then they'll never have the chance to break off the buds.

Do two or three short washes instead of one long wash

How is that going to increase my yield?

If I am getting a tiny yield from doing a single long wash for more than an hour, then how is a shorter wash duration going to increase yield?

When I've done short washes there is almost nothing in the bags worth collecting. Previous times I only washed for 20 minutes at a time, but there was such a small amount of material in the bags that I decided to increase the duration of washing to an hour with this most recent run.

And like mentioned...even after an hour the buds were still packed full of trichomes on their inside, mostly dry, and even on the outside of the buds the trichomes were still intact.



Basically my issue is the water isn't penetrating and hydrating the buds, and most of the trichomes are staying intact on the buds. After pre-soaking for an hour and washing for an hour the buds are still totally packed full of trichomes.






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[prune]

I would check your bags with magnification, they may be blocked or dirty. Alcohol soak and scrub is effective.

However, if your bud isn't wetting you have to suspect something hydrophobic like an oil. Neem? Horticultural oil?

And Ya, don't beat your bud up, long soaks and washes produce fines that (guess what) blind your mesh and dilute your hash.

 

[Organilush]

I would check your bags with magnification, they may be blocked or dirty. Alcohol soak and scrub is effective.

However, if your bud isn't wetting you have to suspect something hydrophobic like an oil. Neem? Horticultural oil?

And Ya, don't beat your bud up, long soaks and washes produce fines that (guess what) blind your mesh and dilute your hash.

I clean the bags after using them and before use I inspect them.


Nothing hydrophobic ever touched my buds...But the trichomes themselves, when packed together densely, actually appear to be hydrophobic.

My buds are quite dense and resinous/oily/sticky, it's as if the dense layer of trichomes/resin prevents water from soaking into the bud.


I'm fully aware of washing too aggressively or for too long of a duration can lead to a lower quality hash. I haven't encountered that yet....The first time I tried making cold water hash I started out with being very gentle while washing and with short washing durations, but since my yields have been so tiny each time I've done it I've used a bit more turbulence and for a longer duration.

I'm still getting some hash each time and some if it has been pretty good quality and melts easily under a flame, just super tiny yields. Like a little dime/marble size piece of hash from 3 to 4 ounces of dank buds.





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[PDX Dopesmoker]

You're not really trying to get the trichomes wet as much as you are trying to get them cold, when they get cold they get brittle and the heads break off easier under agitation. I never did any kind of presoaking making water hash before, I aways got good results going directly to starting the washer the second its filled up with bud, ice & water even with room temperature buds. I think of the water & ice as a heavy physical object thats being used the beat up the buds (& unfortunately get them wet too) rather than a soak. The best way I've found to get max yields is to freeze the buds, then bash them to smithereens when they're frozen & brittle, then freeze them again and then sift the mass them while cold or extract with cold water & ice.
It doesn't produce very melty products, but you can make very nice rosin from that hash and the yields by weight are stellar, near 30% on nice stuff, maybe more than that if you use water an ice. Someone here showed me the idea of using the gumby technique to clean up dirty dry sift, that works pretty nicely, but I really prefer smoking dirty dry sift when it comes to hash, because if its too clean then it flames when I smoke it, which is annoying, so my hash is usually only a little bit stronger and more flavorful than trimmed, ground bud from the same plants. I know I could vape or dab it instead, but I don't feel like changing my smoking habits to accommodate fussy hashish.

 

[Organilush]

You're not really trying to get the trichomes wet as much as you are trying to get them cold, when they get cold they get brittle and the heads break off easier under agitation. ...

I know.

But if the bud material never hydrates then it won't loosen & open up to expose the trichomes inside the bud to the turbulent ice & water.

Even after being in the water for 2+ hours and being washed for an hour, when I snap open a piece of bud it is still dry on the inside and still packed full of trichomes. Those trichomes on the inside will never be exposed to the ice & water if the bud doesn't hydrate and loosen & open up.

If I just started washing immediately after the buds are in the ice water I would end up with an even smaller yield.

But even the trichomes on the outside of my buds that are exposed to the ice & water aren't really breaking off...even after washing for more than an hour, when I look at pieces of the buds under a scope I'd say 70% of the trichomes are still intact.

It is as if the herb won't "let go" of the trichomes and they won't break off.

It doesn't produce very melty products, but you can make very nice rosin from that hash and the yields by weight are stellar, near 30% on nice stuff, maybe more than that if you use water an ice. ....but I really prefer smoking dirty dry sift when it comes to hash, because if its too clean then it flames when I smoke it, which is annoying

That's what I'm aiming for lol. I like it when hash (or even herb) is so resinous & oily that it catches on fire, that's a sign of quality to me lol. (I like to use a magnifying glass to "smoke" hash, prevents it from catching on fire)

I'm striving for quality more so than quantity, if the hash doesn't melt into an oil or bubble under heat I don't have much interest in it. Some of the hash I've got is pretty good and I'm happy with the quality of it, it melts into an oil instead of just burning, but I know I should be getting much much larger yields than I have been.

If I ever get a press for rosin I wouldn't mine producing a lower quality but higher yielding batch of hash since that can be "cleaned up" and result in a quality material after being pressed into rosin.

Thanks for your words though, appreciate it!



I just wish I knew why all of the herb I grow doesn't "let go" of their trichomes in ice water. Doesn't matter how aggressively or turbulent or how long I wash them for, majority of the trichomes stay intact and never break off of the buds.

Next time around I'll try freezing the herb again before washing it, but other than that I really don't know what else to do. I've tried washing longer, I've tried using more ice, I've tried pre-soaking longer, I've tried washing more vigorously, I've tried breaking the buds into smaller & smaller pieces to increase surface area...

...nothing has really made a difference, most of the trichomes remain on the buds.



I was thinking maybe herb that's grow under the intense full sun of summer and receiving intense sunlight all day from sunrise to sunset in hot & dry conditions produces buds with trichomes that don't break off easily?

Because the trichomes on my buds are way different than the trichomes I see coming from indoor/light grown plants...My trichomes are short and fat and seem kind "tough & thick", compared to the trichomes I often see on indoor/light grown plants which seem to be really long and skinny and can break off the bud just when snapping a bud in 1/2.

I don't know if that's a factor. But the trichomes on my buds don't seem to "fall off" all that easily. Even after being washed vigorously in ice water for more than an hour most trichomes are still intact on the outside of the buds (and the inside of the buds are still 100% untouched and packed full of trichomes)





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[John LOQUE]

you should try a mixer. I used one a couple of times, and it's ok. You use it like if it was a potatoe soup

 

[AgentPothead]

Forget water man it's 2021! Get some dry ice and use that instead of ice water. It is way, way colder which is what you want, and it sublimates directly into CO2 which means the kief never gets wet, you can smoke it directly off the table without having to dry anything out. Will it help your yields? I don't know, but I know it works great for me throwing trim and bud in there. I somehow didn't get any pictures of the leftovers, but the dry ice is so cold it makes everything brittle and the buds literally fall apart. Cleanup is a breeze and fast over all process.

 

[PDX Dopesmoker]

I know.

But if the bud material never hydrates then it won't loosen & open up to expose the trichomes inside the bud to the turbulent ice & water.

Even after being in the water for 2+ hours and being washed for an hour, when I snap open a piece of bud it is still dry on the inside and still packed full of trichomes. Those trichomes on the inside will never be exposed to the ice & water if the bud doesn't hydrate and loosen & open up.

If I just started washing immediately after the buds are in the ice water I would end up with an even smaller yield.

But even the trichomes on the outside of my buds that are exposed to the ice & water aren't really breaking off...even after washing for more than an hour, when I look at pieces of the buds under a scope I'd say 70% of the trichomes are still intact.

It is as if the herb won't "let go" of the trichomes and they won't break off.







That's what I'm aiming for lol. I like it when hash (or even herb) is so resinous & oily that it catches on fire, that's a sign of quality to me lol. (I like to use a magnifying glass to "smoke" hash, prevents it from catching on fire)

I'm striving for quality more so than quantity, if the hash doesn't melt into an oil or bubble under heat I don't have much interest in it. Some of the hash I've got is pretty good and I'm happy with the quality of it, it melts into an oil instead of just burning, but I know I should be getting much much larger yields than I have been.

If I ever get a press for rosin I wouldn't mine producing a lower quality but higher yielding batch of hash since that can be "cleaned up" and result in a quality material after being pressed into rosin.

Thanks for your words though, appreciate it!



I just wish I knew why all of the herb I grow doesn't "let go" of their trichomes in ice water. Doesn't matter how aggressively or turbulent or how long I wash them for, majority of the trichomes stay intact and never break off of the buds.

Next time around I'll try freezing the herb again before washing it, but other than that I really don't know what else to do. I've tried washing longer, I've tried using more ice, I've tried pre-soaking longer, I've tried washing more vigorously, I've tried breaking the buds into smaller & smaller pieces to increase surface area...

...nothing has really made a difference, most of the trichomes remain on the buds.



I was thinking maybe herb that's grow under the intense full sun of summer and receiving intense sunlight all day from sunrise to sunset in hot & dry conditions produces buds with trichomes that don't break off easily?

Because the trichomes on my buds are way different than the trichomes I see coming from indoor/light grown plants...My trichomes are short and fat and seem kind "tough & thick", compared to the trichomes I often see on indoor/light grown plants which seem to be really long and skinny and can break off the bud just when snapping a bud in 1/2.

I don't know if that's a factor. But the trichomes on my buds don't seem to "fall off" all that easily. Even after being washed vigorously in ice water for more than an hour most trichomes are still intact on the outside of the buds (and the inside of the buds are still 100% untouched and packed full of trichomes)





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I tried a magnifying glass on weed before, but never with hash. I guess I'll have to make some melty hash and find out if that tip on the magnifying glass changes my smoking habits, thanks, might work for fresh dry ice hash too, if you're looking for top quality, fresh dry ice hash is the the tastiest thing I ever dabbed, but it seems more like you're interested in high grade water hash and you've got everything worked out other than the yields.
What you posted initially indicates that you're doing every right, doing it all outdoors in the cold is a nice additional trick, from everything I read it sounds like you should be getting the kind of higher percentage returns other people report. The short and thick trich stalks could be a clue, are your buds crazy dense also? Growing in low humidity leads to that. Do you think you could break a car window with one of your buds? Maybe your buds are shattering the ice before the ice can shatter the trich stalks.
Have your tried pulling the buds apart by hands or cutting them up with scissors before running them? You can still yield nice melty hash with little to no additional unwanted particles if you break the buds up gently.
If you never figure out the yield issue and you get sick of using a lot of bud to produce a little hash, the violent, dirty technique I mentioned before will generally yield a little bit more weight in rosin pressed from the dirty hash than bud-run hash will yield in full melt or nearly full melt hash (if you have buds of normal density and trich stalks of average fragility). You can then mix some dirty hash back into the the rosin to produce a very convincing substitute for genuine high quality hashish.

 

[tobedetermined]

Forget water man it's 2021! Get some dry ice and use that instead of ice water.

I tried dry ice a couple of times but the % of plant matter that ended up in the hash was a big issue. I know that you can see the color change as you agitate the bag but mine was always harsh with contaminants. I find that I have far better success with ice and water because I can control it better. And nothing seems to beat 20 minutes with a non-violent wooden spoon. And no more than 2 runs. For me now, quality is more important than quantity.

 

[AgentPothead]

I tried dry ice a couple of times but the % of plant matter that ended up in the hash was a big issue. I know that you can see the color change as you agitate the bag but mine was always harsh with contaminants. I find that I have far better success with ice and water because I can control it better. And nothing seems to beat 20 minutes with a non-violent wooden spoon. And no more than 2 runs. For me now, quality is more important than quantity.

What micron sizes were you running at? I run 70 micron, 160 micron, and 220 micron and the last batch at 220 is mostly plant matter for sure I'd guess.

 

[tobedetermined]

I haven't done dry ice in a while but I believe we did 120 and 73. I only tried dry ice twice and switched back to water and ice. With that I now use 220 and 180 which get tossed, then 73, 45 and 25. The 73 is prime, the 45 is decent and the 20 is sludge (a lot of stalks in the microscope) but it still gets you high and my final result is black hash.

 

[f-e]

I don't understand the idea of getting it wet. That somehow it would fluff up and things would fall out.

Smash the dry weed to nothing. Put in on a bucket. Stir. The good bits sink, the dry green floats. you get about 10 mins to process it, or the dry gets wet, and sinks. Which is a ruined batch.

If you want to take the product and send it though bags okay. It's perfectly good hash without filtering though.

If you really insist on wet weed, just to see it, then use a wetting agent. One that's quite weak though as you don't want to dissolve your oils. It's hard to get off your hands when you want it off though, so it's not an immediate danger.

 

[Organilush]

I don't understand the idea of getting it wet. That somehow it would fluff up and things would fall out.

What do you not understand?

When a bud is dry it is "tight" and compact so all of the trichomes inside the bud are never exposed to the turbulent ice & water...After a bud has become hydrated it loosens up and opens up, so now all of those trichomes on the inside are exposed to the ice & water.

Smash the dry weed to nothing. Put in on a bucket. Stir. The good bits sink, the dry green floats. you get about 10 mins to process it, or the dry gets wet, and sinks. Which is a ruined batch.

Why would I want to smash the dry weed?

I don't think you understand the concept of making hash or the anatomy of the cannabis flower.

If one smashes their dry herb then they are smashing and destroying and rupturing the trichomes, and the trichomes are specifially what one is trying to collect when making hash. Smashing the herb will smash the trichomes and that will lead to a very low quality hash.

And what do you mean by "...you get about 10 mins to process it, or the dry gets wet, and sinks. Which is a ruined batch..." . I don't know what you're trying to say there. And what is "the dry"?

If you want to take the product and send it though bags okay. It's perfectly good hash without filtering though.

It is not perfectly good hash with out sieving/filtering.

If one doesn't sieve/filter the material they will never end up with quality melty hash. They will have a hash that is more likely to burn instead of melting into an oil.

If you really insist on wet weed, just to see it, then use a wetting agent..

What do you mean "if you really insist on wet weed just to see it" ...I don't have any idea what you mean by that.

And why would I need to use a wetting agent for making hash?


I don't know if you understand the process of making cold/ice water hash.....

....but it is not possible to make cold water/bubble hash with out the herb & hash getting wet. Water is an essential part of the process.






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[PDX Dopesmoker]

What do you not understand?

When a bud is dry it is "tight" and compact so all of the trichomes inside the bud are never exposed to the turbulent ice & water...After a bud has become hydrated it loosens up and opens up, so now all of those trichomes on the inside are exposed to the ice & water.








Why would I want to smash the dry weed?

I don't think you understand the concept of making hash or the anatomy of the cannabis flower.

If one smashes their dry herb then they are smashing and destroying and rupturing the trichomes, and the trichomes are specifially what one is trying to collect when making hash. Smashing the herb will smash the trichomes and that will lead to a very low quality hash.

And what do you mean by "...you get about 10 mins to process it, or the dry gets wet, and sinks. Which is a ruined batch..." . I don't know what you're trying to say there. And what is "the dry"?









It is not perfectly good hash with out sieving/filtering.

If one doesn't sieve/filter the material they will never end up with quality melty hash. They will have a hash that is more likely to burn instead of melting into an oil.







What do you mean "if you really insist on wet weed just to see it" ...I don't have any idea what you mean by that.

And why would I need to use a wetting agent for making hash?


I don't know if you understand the process of making cold/ice water hash.....

....but it is not possible to make cold water/bubble hash with out the herb & hash getting wet. Water is an essential part of the process.






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I'm pretty sure f-e was describing the gumby hash technique, which involves putting material in cold water, letting the trichomes sink and then skimming off the floating plant material. Its not a bad method for cleaning up dirty dry sift if you don't mind getting it wet, but I never got
the gumby method to work as good as bubble bags do for making melt quality hash in quantity. Bubble bags make it a cakewalk in comparison, that top bag that filters out all the bigger material does all the important work for you so you don't need to rely on the unwanted particles floating to keep them out of the hash.
Has anyone mentioned growing less dense weed yet? A nice big loose mass of calyxes-on-a-stick type buds might solve all your problems. Moving to somewhere more humid will also help you decrease the density of your outdoor weed and that should give you better returns on bud run hash too.

 

[Organilush]

I tried dry ice a couple of times but the % of plant matter that ended up in the hash was a big issue.....

That's what I've heard several times now from folks that have tried the dry ice method, that there is always more plant material/fragments mixed in with the hash and the quality just isn't the same as cold water hash.

Agentpothead....What sort of quality hash are you getting from using dry ice? Is it melty/oily at all?

I know some folks have managed to end up with some pretty good quality dry sift/dry ice hash, but it seems so tedious having to push/sieve the hash through a screen by hand.

I'll likely give it a try sometime with a small amount of herb just to see.

Has anyone mentioned growing less dense weed yet? A nice big loose mass of calyxes-on-a-stick type buds might solve all your problems. Moving to somewhere more humid will also help you decrease the density of your outdoor weed and that should give you better returns on bud run hash too.

Some of the strains/buds I used this time around did have a relatively "loose" and open structure compared to the others and they hydrated more thoroughly. I was looking forward to using those buds that were less dense and I thought that was going to do the trick to increase my yield but it didn't' at all...The buds did hydrate more thoroughly compared to my dense bud, but most of the trichomes still remained intact on the buds. Like mentioned, it's as if the buds I grow just don't "let go" of their trichomes easily.



How does one make their outdoor plants produce buds that are less dense?

I grow outdoors in live/organic soil...It's not like I'm doing anything to make my plants produce dense buds, that's just how they turn out with their genetics & the climate I live in.

I'm not going to move 100s of miles away to somewhere that's more humid solely just so I can grow plants that produce buds that are less dense in hopes that my hash yields increase lol ....Who would move their entire life 100s of miles away to a different location for such a petty simple thing? "I gotta move a few hundred miles away closer to the ocean because I need to grow weed that's less dense so I can get a few more extra grams of hash in the fall" .

With that said...I might be moving sometime in the next year to a location that will be much more humid than where I live now, but I'm not moving there specifically so I can grow some plants that produce buds that are less dense.




Next time around I just plan on freezing the herb before washing it, breaking the herb into even smaller pieces than I have been (to increase surface area), and being extremely aggressive/turbulent with the washing.

If that doesn't give me a decent yield then I'm likely going to give up on making hash and look into solvents, even tho I very much prefer solvent-less extracts and very much love melty hash....I've used (wasted) around 6 to 7 ounces of dank flower so far an have only got around 3g to 4g of hash total at the most.






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[D. B. Doober]

I love hash. Sadly I haven't found any in 20 years. Dispensary doesn't sell it either.

 

[AgentPothead]

I'm not a hash aficionado like some of you so I don't really have a point of comparison other than the hash I sometimes got growing up, which wasn't as good as what I can get from my own kief. For me, any hash is "good hash" as long as I'm smoking it Never had to push anything with the dry ice bubble bags either. Just throw the plant material in the bag with the ice and shake it over the table until stuff stops coming out. It probably takes longer to clean the bags after with isopropyl than it did to "make" the kief.

 

[Organilush]

I'm not a hash aficionado like some of you so I don't really have a point of comparison other than the hash I sometimes got growing up, which wasn't as good as what I can get from my own kief. For me, any hash is "good hash" as long as I'm smoking it Never had to push anything with the dry ice bubble bags either. Just throw the plant material in the bag with the ice and shake it over the table until stuff stops coming out. It probably takes longer to clean the bags after with isopropyl than it did to "make" the kief.

View Image View Image View Image

I see.


That stuff doesn't look bad at all, just not quite the quality of hash I'm striving for.

I'm aiming for a hash that melts into an oil when exposed to heat/flame. I don't mind if the hash leaves behind a little bit of residue/ash, it doesn't need to be a "full melt" hash for me to enjoy it, but if the hash burns more so instead of melting it's not the level of quality I'm looking for. I want my hash to at lest melt a little bit.

If you're not familiar, "full melt" hash will melt into an oil entirely and doesn't leave behind any traces of ash or reside. It is so clean and purely resin/oil that one can vape it off a metal screen or dab it and nothing will be left on the screen, it vapes way cleanly.



Here is an outline of the different grades/qualities of hash and some pics of some of the type of hash that I'm striving for.

1 and 2 Star hash
At the low end of the spectrum is where you’ll find dry sift or hash that is full of contaminants and which is far less than ideal for melting. 1 to 2 star is usually less than even half true trichome heads and stalks, with the rest typically being various organic detritus. Giving it the distinction "food grade hash."

3 and 4 Star
Known to many as "half melt", 3 and 4 star hash or kief does just that, it half melts. The reason for the half melt is due to the presence of some debris and plant material in the final product, however it is considerably less than 1 or 2 star. These can include tiny bits of leaf material and anything that isn't a full trichome head or stalk. Half melt adds potency to smoked flower products as a bowl topper but is more often than not pressed into rosin.

5 and 6 Star
With virtually only the trichome heads and stalks remaining, 5 and 6 star bubble hash should be free of all contaminants and residue. Forms clear bubbles when heated and leaves behind no residue or ash or anything

This is what quality hash looks like when heated on a screen, it is an oil that bubbles and leaves behind virtually no traces of anything. It doesn't burn, it melts.

Good hash will look almost "creamy" and will be soft & squishy and oily and even messy/sticky/gooey sometimes, the outside of the hash appears a bit "shiny" since it is so oily

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