Unofficial Coco Coir Growers Thread

[bonecarver_OG]

could be it. sounds very reasonable.

they work great (canna coco AB) - no doubt - but i also thought they were a bit more natural (what ever i mean with that word, i dont really know how to define it nowadays hehe).

i havent seen any botanicare products in spain - there is however a few other local "organic" nutrient brands - but i find them too scetchy to even check out.

the only e brands of specific coco nutes i can get here are the dutch canna and hesi.

peace

 

[20kw dreams]

I agree absolutely Gaius. I think the faact that some people will say that their organic herb tastes way better then the chemy herb the next guy grew is not because of the basic atomic nutrients themselves, but all the other shit that is goin on like having the organic acids, organic compounds, microecology, and micronutrients that can be in your media whether you use a basic fertilizer that is organic or not. It seems coco provides this organic base which allows salt fertilizers to perform as well as orgaincs, yet staying the benefits of hydro as well

Best of both worlds, eh!

 

[bonecarver_OG]

coco grown buds tastes stronger or more concentrated than ordinary soil grown - IMHO (i mean better - more flavour)

i have grown both.

ah - gotto say i withdraw all coment earlier made about canna beeing natural since its not the case

got to setlle for mineral/natural mix hehe

sorry

 

[gaiusmarius]

well canna does have the bio canna line, which is organic and can be used for any medium as long as it's hand watered. as it's thick black and smelly, and blocks drippers, lol.

also worth remembering is that we give the plants things like rhizotonic, which is 100% bio as well as enzyme products, while the slabs are alive with trichoderma and the rest of the beneficial troops, then there is the bio boost, which further adds bio ingredients and increases the health of the beneficials even more. so the coco is the ideal medium for a fully organic feed, because it totally supports the beneficials which in turn convert left overs into food stuff for the plants. but up to now i have always used the coco A+B as the main food source. am thinking of trying a canister of hesi coco A+B next, but they are also not bio as far as i know.

i would be highly interested to see a coco grow fed with liquid organic ferts. does pbp block drippers?

 

[TanzanianMagic]

First Coco Grow

First Coco Grow

This is my first completely coco grow.

Problem: the seeds were planted a week ago, and there is some yellow showing on the newest leaf tips and some veins.

Symptoms:

1) There is a slight musty, milldewy smell around the tray.
2) There are some tiny spots of algae appearing on individual pieces of perlite.

General Conditions:

Temperature: 21-24 degrees
Relative Humidity: 48% (higher before I took them out of their propagator)
Lighting: one 2 x 18 watt fluoros
Soil: coco flakes and perlite only
Feed: Canna Coco A & B and Rhizotonic
Concentration: 2ml of Canna Coco (A + B 1 ml each), 1 ml Rhizotonic per 1 liter
Water: PH of about 6.0
EC: 0.8 (excluding R/O tapwater ph of about 0.40)
Root growth: good (some roots are appearing at the bottom of their pots)
Watering: once per day

Question: as I seem to do everything right, considering I'm new to pure coco grows, what is the most likely cause of the yellow streaking on these new leaves?

 

[Guest]

Just to be a smartass... nothing you do can be proclaimed "organic" until you are certified by an accredited certification agency =]

Oh, and Bio Flores and Vega are organic in a sense, but they carry a restricted tag for some reason, somethings fishy... rhizo is 100% organic though.. so again, it is up to the certification agency and state laws to decide if it truly is organic..

Pure Blend Pro is not even listed in the OMRI database, so there is no fucking way in hell it is even close to an all natural or organic fertilizer..

 

[20kw dreams]

well, I use kelp meal, bone meal, and alfalfa meal to grow veggies, and they are sure as hell organic. We grow organic veggies at the college that are not certified, nor will be anytime in the future. The "Organic" you speak of is an absolutely voluntary certification, and even that, by definition, is not just organic. OMRI also has many qualifications which include pest management systems and some kind of future sustainability plans. While it is good to have certification agencies, they have put alot of beaurocracy and red tape around being organic. Besides, OMRI likes to collect a large CASH donation for anything to be listed in their database.

So, just to be a smart ass...anything you grow can be proclaimed "organic", it is up to the consumer to decide whether something falls withing his/her ideas of natural, organic, or not. Certification is just a guideline, or guarantee.

PBP does contain a few things which are not certifiable. It is however MOSTLY organic, and the N is organic, as well as most of the other nutrients. It does contain potassium carbonate, magnesium carbonate, and calcium carbonate. By definition, these are all ORGANIC compounds.

Potassium Carbonate - Potassium carbonate was first identified in 1742 by Antonio Campanella and is the primary component of potash and the more refined pearlash or salts of tartar. Historically pearlash was created by baking potash in a kiln to remove impurities. Today potassium carbonate is prepared commercially by the electrolysis of potassium chloride. The resulting potassium hydroxide is then carbonated using carbon dioxide to form potassium carbonate, which is often used to produce other potassium compounds. CO2 + 2KOH --> K2CO3 + H2O
Calcium Carbonate - Calcium carbonate is a chemical compound, with chemical formula CaCO3. It is commonly used medicinally as a calcium supplement or as an antacid. Calcium carbonate is the active ingredient in agricultural lime. It is a common substance found as rock in all parts of the world and is the main component of seashells and the shell of snails. It is usually the principal cause of hard water.
MgCarbonate -is a white solid that occurs in nature as a mineral. Several hydrated and basic forms of magnesium carbonate also exist as minerals.

So, nothing here like the Haber process. CaCO3 and MgCO3 are both common minerals, and KCO3 I don't know really how that whole process works. Either way it is all organic by definition, natural maybe even less, if not in the OMRI database. Thier Original Pure Blend compost solution is absolutely organic, and not certified. These companies don't just lie about what is in their products, as it is illegal, and these are legit businesses which get a pretty penny for their nutrients. BTW, they must legally list ALL NPK sources on the label. This means if there is hidden things in your ferts, it isn't the largest ingredients, and micros are much easier to get from organic sources then NPK.

Organic - a compound that contains carbon
Organic farming - agriculture that relies on ecosystem management rather than agricultural inputs

By that organic definition, you cannot grow organic indoor under lights, using flood tables, coco brought in from overseas, etc.

So, it all comes down to definition I suppose:hooray:

Oh, and you have to pay just for the list of what ingredients you can have to qualify as certifiable organic.

 

[thc43]

i would be highly interested to see a coco grow fed with liquid organic ferts. does pbp block drippers?

just got home from picking up my nute needs for the next 3 months, will be sticking with canna coco and the rest of there range. But was given a 1lt of bio boost to try during the flower period.

reading the info guide it has to be handwatered but not sure how often, but is compatiable with all other product im using.


Not ready to make the step to fully organics just yet has taken a while to get consistant quallity yields with there chem range.


Over here rhizo carrys a organic logo along with bio and boost if its not certified organic there in some trouble my government is sick of veg/ fruit and nute products being sold as organic when there not.. has damaged the organic industry bigtime.

 

[20kw dreams]

Oh, sorry gaius. PBP won't block too many drippers if you used a filter. You'ld be cool in slabs because you have a backup on either side, so you could still switch out drippers between runs if you did get a couple clogs. It's definately not quite as thick as BioBizz, but it still has some little chunks in it. It definately doesn't make the thick goop that some other organic ferts do.

 

[thc43]

TanzanianMagic

i think what you have there without seeing pics is what i first noticed when growing seed in coco for the first time. the coco if canna is well flushed so wont feed the plant actually will do the opposite and drain a small plant causing yellow leaves (pale in colour) and the rest of the plant will be a lime green.

saying that though its also possiable you went too hard on the nute brighter yellowing looking dry to burnt, its a fine line with seedlings. Presoak coco in rhizotonic thats normally enough to germ and plant a couple of days later, if seeds are staying in a pot for a while you need to start feeding 1.0 ec + rhizo increasing/ decreasing if need. Btw watch your PH your canna nute at low rate and rhizo will give a high PH of around 6.5 in RO ec0.0 ph 7.0. lower to six and problem may go away. full dose youll get 6.0 + ec2.4 IN RO..


A question for anyone

Can you get a reading from an ec meter with organic nutes?
just that ive noticed there are no ec recomendations for canna Bio range or boost basicly say accuratly follow bottle directions in Mls.

 

[bonecarver_OG]

20 KW - props for taking the time to explain! an example to follow!

seems instead of "organic" what we want to say is environment friendly ?

using all canna products by the ml works excellently. Canna have themself tried those nutes in many different conditions of water. using them by the ml and with very low EC water - i have never had problems.

Also there is the famous fert-chedule of canna - where the aproximate EC or PPm are noted - how accurate it is - i dont know - i never used an EC meter in my life.

it seems to me the plants themself are a great EC meter just looking at them its possible to fine-tune the nutes.

peace

 

[thc43]

cheers bonecarver OG not that good at judging plants fert needs just yet and do trust canna but find they recomend doses on the safe side. Some strains want alot more than they recomend.

well i tried id increase fert slowly through veg until i got tip burn then would back it off a couple of points normally giving me 3.2 Bigbud and 2.8 white rhino other strains from seed couldnt handle above 2.4 for too long.

In my first threads there was a recuring Question "Why EC so High" had no answer as i was basicly following a recipe given too me partly from a canna rep and store owner. Now i realise pushing the plants is asking for trouble specially in early flower but still go pretty hard with PK additives late in.. bad habbit i know..


will use bio boost as recomended dose but wont be able to hand water daily.


peace..thc 43

 

[Dalton]

Ahh lots of good reading going on here as usual

Maybe I'm a little late, but as far as the Organics goes, the whole thing nakes me a little nuts. Before I piss anyone off let me just say that I don't live in an area where there are lots of exotic cuts floating around and alot of people growing for me to sample these cadillac strains grown in organic soil. Also I haven't been growing that long so maybe my pallette will change overtime. All of that being said as long as my buds are smooth, I don't care what it tastes like. I'm more concerened with potency then yeild. I don't really get it, to me...my weed tastes like weed and I have been smoking on and off since I was 12 years old. If I want to taste blueberries, I can eat blueberies while I smoke.

I will say that I would prefer to eat organic blueberries, but only If I have the money at the time. Around here organic food is at least double the price. It's a shame and I know that organic farmers aren't getting obsenely rich, they are fighting to compete. People around me seem to be a little smug about organics and it really pisses me off.

I'm really interested in Organics for sustainability and the environment. I would love to try out a good tea that would work well with coco, for a possible food grow, in my grow room. I know very little about organic chemistry, so I don't think I'm going to be the one to come up with this recipe but if someone comes up with one, I would love to try it out.

Maybe I'm contadicting myself because I use some semi-organic nutes like floralicious and hygrozyme which is OMRI listed. So I think it's good to use a mix of both for me because I get the benefits of both and I can still use my EC meter.

So anyway thanks for all of the good info guys and let me stress again I'm not trying to get anyone pissed.

 

[TanzanianMagic]

TanzanianMagic

i think what you have there without seeing pics is what i first noticed when growing seed in coco for the first time. the coco if canna is well flushed so wont feed the plant actually will do the opposite and drain a small plant causing yellow leaves (pale in colour) and the rest of the plant will be a lime green.

saying that though its also possiable you went too hard on the nute brighter yellowing looking dry to burnt, its a fine line with seedlings. Presoak coco in rhizotonic thats normally enough to germ and plant a couple of days later, if seeds are staying in a pot for a while you need to start feeding 1.0 ec + rhizo increasing/ decreasing if need. Btw watch your PH your canna nute at low rate and rhizo will give a high PH of around 6.5 in RO ec0.0 ph 7.0. lower to six and problem may go away. full dose youll get 6.0 + ec2.4 IN RO..


A question for anyone

Can you get a reading from an ec meter with organic nutes?
just that ive noticed there are no ec recomendations for canna Bio range or boost basicly say accuratly follow bottle directions in Mls.

THC43,

Thanks a lot. With all the plant problems I've had, underfertilizing would be a welcome relief.

The tips don't look burnt, and the chlorotic patches haven't gone necrotic yet. I'm now more heavily feeding the leaves and increased the nutrienc concentration to about an EC of 1.4, which should be the high end.

Let's see what happens.

 

[20kw dreams]

I would say watch out bud. Seedlings will give you the same signs of overfert as they would if you were under feeding. I burned good all cuts just this run at 1.4 with canna coco, and they ended up liking .8 ec. Signs of overfert are not burnt leaves as young plants, because you burn the roots before the leaves, and the leaves don't burn unless your roots are capable of sucking up too many nutes. If you burn the roots, your plants can't take up nutes, hence deficiency signs.

I think THC was saying you may be overferting, not underferting, which I would agree with

THC - You know, that's an ongoing arguement. Organic nutrients should conduct electricity just like any other compound or molecule. People say organic nutes, don't, but I have gotten some pretty high readings by indisputable organic nutrients such as metanaturals and earthjuice. I think it is realy just a matter or how well the organics are broken down, and using EC as a term of reference of different strengths of a nutrient, rather than comparing different nutrients.

Dalton - You fucking pissed me off j/k...no, I think your right on in many ways. As far as I'm concerned Organics are bullshit, unless they are sustainable. I have a hair up my ass for people who want to use bat guano and call it sustainable, because it is mined just the same as any mineral, yet it gets to be considered totally organic, and bats don't shit in a cave as fast as some corporation can pull it out with a tractor.

Same goes with peat moss. Peat moss is absolutely a limited natural resource, just like oil. Yet, it is considered organic and sustainable by many. Fact is large corporations mine it out of swamps millions of times faster then nature can create it, so it is therefore not sustainable at all.

Coco on the other hand is a fastest growing plant which could be (although it is not yet) cropped faster then it is beiong used. This makes it truly sustainable.

Everybody's focus should be sustainability, not this BS organic shit. Organic production methods are for the most part sustainable, but organization like OMRI have completely taked the eye off the ball from what I have seen.

:endrant:
Peace everybody

 

[Ono Nadagin]

End of rant?... bah you were just getting warmed up

 

[Bongojaz]

getting ready to do the pk 13/14 thang... this is one of the house and garden buds.

 

[gaiusmarius]

good rant 20 kw dreams, some very good points.

hey Bongojaz, that particular plant looks like it is already very nearly ripe? is it just the lighting maybe? normally speaking i use the pk when the colas are still mostly white haired. that pic look like it's closer to 1 week from harvest rather then 3? unless the other plants are still whiter, (some times the ones on the edge brown up faster) then it seems too late to use pk 13/14, as it is a mineral fertilizer, you really don't want to use it in the last 3 weeks of 12/12, to give your plants plenty of chance to use it up before harvest.

 

[Bongojaz]

hey Bongojaz, that particular plant looks like it is already very nearly ripe? is it just the lighting maybe? normally speaking i use the pk when the colas are still mostly white haired. that pic look like it's closer to 1 week from harvest rather then 3? unless the other plants are still whiter, (some times the ones on the edge brown up faster) then it seems too late to use pk 13/14, as it is a mineral fertilizer, you really don't want to use it in the last 3 weeks of 12/12, to give your plants plenty of chance to use it up before harvest.

probably just the lighting. i just got some orange hairs today. dopescope showed all clear trichs. it's a cross a friend made. jock horror and skunk special. i figure it's got bout 30 days left or a bit less.. smells dankkkkkkk....

 

[gaiusmarius]

right man, going with the trich heads is the way to go.