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Twisted leaves and mushy stems in newly taken clones

Eol

Member
Hey guys,

My latest batch of clones have all pretty much died. About three days ago, all the leaves started to twist until some of them were literally facing downwards. Then I woke up today (5 days since taking them) and they had all flopped over. I took them out of the coco to see what was going wrong and they all had soft, mushy stems that weren't providing any support.

Here are some pics:

Leaves twisting over:

picture.php


Flopping over:

picture.php


Mushy stems:

picture.php



The clones have been on a heated propagator and I have been misting daily with ph 6.0 water and a splash of rhizotonic. The dome has been on the heated propogator. The clones were dipped in clonex prior to insertion to the media, which is 70/30 coco/perlite.

Temps: 70-80F
Humidity: 70-90%

I'm wondering if the twisting leaves is because it's got too hot in there (despite what my thermometer says) and the heat from the propogator has cooked the stems in the coco, causing them to turn to mush? Or have I been over misting too much? I ordered some new clonex as well, in case the last batch had become contaminated.

Do you think I should turn the heated propagator off and remove the dome? Or perhaps leave the dome on but turn the heat off? Or vice versa? The bottom of the cups/top of the propagator don't even feel that warm which is weird :/

Any help is much appreciated! Thanks!
 

Phychotron

Member
not sure whats going on, but i've never heard of anyone ph adjusting their mist water. I've had mushy stems before, it just happens sometimes and the plant doesn't take. I always suspect over watering.

i've never had good success with cloning in coco. I built an aerocloner that works good. The next I would use is soil, soil-less mix or a root cube.

Daily misting with a dome is over kill, your probably getting too much water on the coco, which doesn't breath well and then the stem is rotting causing the leaves to do it too.

and what are you adjusting your ph with?
 
looks like the dirt was too wet or maybee you make your clones with a clonig gel ?

i have this problem only when it is too wet or when i let a big drop of rootig gel on the clone.

since this problem i take only rootigpowder and never had any fallen clones again.
 

Crusader Rabbit

Active member
Veteran
This looks and sounds like "damping off", a fungal infection. Improve your sterile techniques while taking cuts. Keep your medium lightly moist, not wet. Avoid previously used medium for rooting. Some people have found that dipping their cuts in a gel increases the likelyhood of this problem occurring.
 

Eol

Member
Thanks for all the replies guys,

Phychotron, I PH adjust the water as I was loosely following rez's coco cloning guide and he said to do that.

I think you are all likely right with regards to the overwatering as the coco is very moist. In addition, I thought it was best to get as much cloning gel onto the stem as possible, but after what mal schaun and Crusader Rabbit are saying, this seems to be not the case.

Should I cover the entire stem that is going to be beneath the coco with gel, or just the very bottom of it?

My sterile technique wasn't great Crusader Rabbit. I honestly didn't think it was that important, but I'll be sure to sterilize the knife I use next time.

Based on what you are all saying, I must have had the coco too moist, then misted too frequently and kept the dome on. Too much cloning gel probably contributed as well.

I think this time I'm going to put some perlite in the bottom of the cup, to ensure there's adequate drainage. I'm also going to water the coco tonight and leave it overnight to ensure some of the excess moisture evaporates off.

My ambient humidity is like 40-50%, should I bother with the humidity dome, or just mist them every day or so? Also, should I leave some standing water in the propagator?

Thanks again for all the help, much appreciated!
 

Crusader Rabbit

Active member
Veteran
Heck, have my entire list of cloning threads.
***************************************************************
Cloning Threads



All about Bonsai moms/muns
Guest
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=31919

By Far THE BEST Rooting Gel, Dip, Powder I Have Ever Used!!
Krunchbubble
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=5019742#post5019742


Cell Tray Cloning w/ Perlite
Mr. Bongjangles
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=112774

CLONERS_ a collection of various methods
FreezerBoy
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=169382


Cloning Failing? Tried Everything? Found the missing link?
Herborizer
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=219683

cloning…I give up.
macdiesel
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=184697

Cloning in Coco Experiment
Dizzlekush
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=228490

Cloning in plain water under flouros
Guest
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=10827

Cloning with Mycorrihizae
Bunz
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=4806874#post4806874


Everything you need to know to get healthy clones!,
Cloning in Aeroponics with Ultra Current
Ultra Current
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=226809


DIY Aero Cloner the EZ-Cloner Replica in 10 Easy Steps!
KingRalph
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=40055

Homemade bubble cloner to soil=clones wilting
Holmes Slice
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=228727

How to Clone
stihgnobevoli
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=228176

How I got roots in 6 days.
Slowandeasy
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=187029

Olivia’s Cloning Gel vs. Miracle Grow Fast Root
Toastfighter2
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=224121

Organic Clones in Perlite
moses wellfleet
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=224838

Post your DIY Cloner
Bubble Puppy
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=93880

Root Riot vs Jiffy pellets (test)
~Shh~
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=223152


Taking clones in late flower, the easy way.
SuperConductor
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=143894

Tips & Trix 4 EZ-Cloner usrs. This will put neoprene puck makers out of biz 4 SHO
Lone Wolf
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=4886939#post4886939

When cloning…
Crisscross
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=225952

Why are some strains harder to clone than others?
CannaBunkerMan
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=219236

World class cloner new at walmart
Mrred
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=42847&page=23
 
Last edited:
i ever have some seramis or perlite on the bottom of the greenhouse that is moist and on this i place the cocotabs, rockwool or whatever.
 

stihgnobevoli

Active member
Veteran
i have a cloning tutorial in my link also for dirt and nothing more. just dirt water and cuttings. i wouldn't put the perlite at the bottom but instead mix it into your dirt. more air = faster rooting. a loose airy mix kept moist not wet and warm gets me the fastest rooting.
 

Eol

Member
Thanks for all the responses

stihgnobevoli, thanks I will continue to use mix perlite with the coco then.

Crusader Rabbit, you hero! So much useful info there :D - this one:

How I got roots in 6 days.
Slowandeasy
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=187029

is an absolute treasure trove! I read all 18 pages and feel so much more confident now. The key thing that is stressed throughout the thread is getting the moisture levels in the coco right - I thought it was fine to just water the coco and that was it, but it appears you have to squeeze out as much water as possible and leave it moist not wet. That's where I was going wrong.

Thanks again everyone :)
 

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