Trying to master propagation/cloning…what am I doing wrong now?

[tropicanna]

Learning how to propagate/clone successfully has been pretty frustrating at times.Although I've figured some things out and made some headway, still no clones from my soon-to-be flowering mothers.
I have some younger plants veggin right now but I don't want to butcher them as I did with my more mature ones because they will all go to flower in less than three weeks and I want to get them to a decent size.
My first hurdle was cleared when I figured that trying to propagate in the tropics, in middle of summer with no temperature controlled environment would require some adjustments. That meant no humidity dome as the humidity is already high enough as it is and it made the temperature inside the dome too hot, probably hotter than the medium itself.
The second hurdle was cleared when I realized that, at least for my particular environmental conditions it was better suit to use a vase with 1L of tap water, a drop of 3% hydrogen peroxide an air pump and airstone to get cuttings to start rooting. I have to admit that I haven't tried using sterile rooting cubes or vermiculite.
The third hurdle was cleared when I realized that the hormex rooting powder I had bought was the #8 which is .8 % IBA rather than the usual .1% concentration typically found in products marketed for cannabis. A little bit of reading published research, books on PGRs and plant tissue culture helped me realize that these hormones are pretty strong even in very small quantities and that just as auxins are necessary to induce rooting, too high of a concentration will inhibit rooting.
Now I'm at the point where I've had several cuttings grow roots, this last week I had the thickest roots so far emerge from an apical meristem (main stem) that I topped off one of the young plants.The hurdle I need to overcome now is getting the cutting's leaves not to rot when I transfer them to the peat/vermiculite medium. Here's a pic of what i'm talking about. Any suggestions?

 

[Lepreschone]

Hi there!
Did it take long to root?
I'm not really an expert at cloning, but I've done ~100 clones recently so the little I learned is still fresh in my memory, hehe.
I think it's due to a RH too high or lack of fresh air, probably a bit of both...I've seen that here when I tried ultraponic cloning with too strong a fogger (leaves were flooded with mist continuously), and also when I forgot the clones in their propagator for too long, not opening the dome.
Anyway, top the dead part and the clone should survive... I think... I had so many clones I didn't bother trying.

Today, I just got a beginning of rooting on a cutting I left in a glass of water by the window. It took about two months.
In my tests, rooting cubes ("root riot") arrived first, then vermiculite and regular soil more or less equal. Then big chunks of coco coir (too big, not good) and the glass of water came last.

 

[Dready_jake]

Rh too high? Maybe if he's trying to transplant without hardening off then with CONTEXT it would be going from too high a humidity to too low. But in the first couple days most people shoot for 100% and reduce slowly for a week.

I also don't use clone domes, nutrients, hormones or anything like that. Just a clip, cut of some leafs, cut the last two in half and put directly in my self built cloner. I designed it so it only uses about a gallon of water and the temps arent effected cuz the pump is outside the cloner. Room temp water baaaabbaaay!

Make sure the medium is at 70°-78° for happy rooting. Too much light and too much wind can bug the little guys.

100% success because→ENVIRONMENT, ENVIRONMENT, ENVIRONMENT!!!

 

[Holdin']

If you're experiencing that much leaf/"head" rot as they call it - I think it would be important to know what you're humidity is where you're cloning.

Also, are you misting them? If so, stop. This is conducive to the fungus/bacteria that causes rot. Misting is a big misconception that leads to failure for cloning beginners. If you're humidity is high early in the cloning process, as it should be, misting is extremely counterproductive.

Lastly, I think you're over-complicating cloning. It's great to understand every process, however too much love results in poor results in many cases.

I don't mean to sound like I'm belittling whatsoever... But, cannabis is extremely easy to clone. Most people fail because they try too hard. Seriously.

I can put a snipped branch into a cup of tap water, throw it on a shelf with little ambient light and have roots within a couple weeks. Obviously not optimal, but for sake of example; cannabis practically clones itself by giving it halfway decent conditions. Rooting hormone is not required for rooting, just helps the process via sealing the cut-wound and providing minute amounts of chemicals that promote rooting and health of the cutting.

We need more info about conditions such as temps and humidity... however, a clone-dome with rockwool gives me 99% success in a variety of conditions.

 

[tropicanna]

I've heard the term hardening before dready jake…but what exactly do you mean by it? Keep in mind that I'm near the equator, a tropical climate, 87 Farenheight and 70% RH during the summertime. I think I had heard the term used in the context higher latitudes, colder climates. I transplanted the to a peat moss/perlite/lime mix and made sure it was moist enough. I think the issue here could still be the fact that I don't have a temperature controlled environment such as an A/C unit in the room I'm working on, although i don't think the cup gets too hot. I would have to check the mediums temperature. As a matter of fact I will do that right now.

 

[WelderDan]

The size of the cutting matters a lot IMO. Too many leaves and she won't root. I always cut it longer than I need, remove all but 1 set of leaves and the growing tip. I then cut it to the length I want at a 45 degree angle. I use perlite usually, but any extra cuts get put in a cup of water 'cause I'm lazy. I use Root-tone or Take-root when they go in perlite and nothing with the cup of water. They all go on a shelf above the lights in my veg cab, so the roots are nice and warm and they get indirect light. They will root fine in water, but change it every couple days. I get close to 100% success.

 

[tropicanna]

I always tend to overcomplicate things Holdin', I'll admit to that. Like I said before, I used a dome on my first try at propagating cuttings, but since it gets pretty hot during the day here (today the high was 86 F but right now it's 81 with RH 84% and it says it feels like 90) and the relative humidity is at least in the 70% during the summer there is really no need for the dome, it was making the air inside really warm and muggy.I would get a steamy slap in the face every time I took it off. I just took a temp reading on the medium and it was 80.6 Fahrenheit an hour after sunset. Inducing rooting hasn't been an issue anymore, like you said all it takes is a cup of water and maybe a bit of IBA to hasten the process a bit. The last hurdle is to get those cuttings with roots to survive going into a potting mix. Again, i'm just using peat/perlite/lime. I've included some pics of how i'm doing it right now, those are basil with roots in the plastic cup and tomato suckers in the vase with airstone and a bunch of highland oxaca gold cuttings on the other cups which i'm hoping I can get right this time.

 

[Dready_jake]

The size of the cutting matters a lot IMO. Too many leaves and she won't root. I always cut it longer than I need, remove all but 1 set of leaves and the growing tip. I then cut it to the length I want at a 45 degree angle. I use perlite usually, but any extra cuts get put in a cup of water 'cause I'm lazy. I use Root-tone or Take-root when they go in perlite and nothing with the cup of water. They all go on a shelf above the lights in my veg cab, so the roots are nice and warm and they get indirect light. They will root fine in water, but change it every couple days. I get close to 100% success.

Agreed

Too many leaves does slow stuff down a lot as it requires more energy to keep alive. I found even leaving the top leafs untouched and not cutting them in half adds a day or two.

The 45° thing is actually a myth started from watching flowershops. They do that so its a large slow to heal wound. By cutting straight we allow the "scab" or calus to form forcing the plant to root as its water has been cut off. I don't really pay any attention to my cut angle anymore. Still 100% success. And I only change water between batches of clones

 

[tropicanna]

Here are the pics. I went with few leaves this time just in case.

 

[Dready_jake]

And hardening off is used to describe the process of opening the vents on the dome halfway 3 days in. All the way open in like 4-5. Dome open and cracked for a daybor two then finally completely off. Watching for leaf curl and pissed off plants. If this happens( and it can be fast) throw the dome back on and try again slightly slower.

 

[Dready_jake]

Here are the pics. I went with few leaves this time just in case.

Cut the leafs that are left in half to reduce transpiration,
otherwise I think they look alright.

Another thing is make sure the mother is healthy, fed and watered. For some reason I have had issues with taking clones from a thirsty mom

 

[tropicanna]

I do the 45 below a node just to follow the natural shape of the node/stem junction.From the book on plant tissue culture I'm reading the plant's auxins get transported to these areas as part of their natural response to the wound.

 

[Dready_jake]

But the angle is a myth
They do great with a 90° cut

A CLEAN cut is more important

 

[tropicanna]

check this out these are some pics of my first attempt with a humidity dome…after 3 weeks nothing had rooted. Im pretty sure the heat/humidity inside the dome was the only culprit. These are alleged african landrace Mozambiquen Poison. I was dipping them in hormex #8 which is 8 times more concentrated IBA than your typical cannabis marketed brand. The were fine, healthy, green and perky for the three weeks till the day I decided to put them outside early in the morning to start the "hardening" process and they wilted within minutes. When I brought them back inside and placed them inside the dome the bounced back but they started rotting in the tip growth.

 

[Dready_jake]

Heat maybe. Humidity.... Nah.
This clone was taken on may 23rd. Normally when j do a batch I'll have a sterile razor and scrape the phloem a little( I think that's what its called correct if ya feel like lol ) this PIC is today 6.3

The little white tag is their label. Its a small plastic plant tag with the green wire through it and hook and looped around the clone. (No mix ups ever. it follows the clone)

 

[tropicanna]

That seems like a fine cutting to me. How many more days would you give it?Do you transplant it to potting mix or do you work in hydro? I had some with roots that long, once transferred to my potting mix thats where the issues on the top started happening.

 

[sourpuss]

Gotta have a tiny bit o feed in your cloning solution...... cheers.... check snypes guide to cloning for a good starting point....

 

[Dready_jake]

This clone has NEVER seen anything but a blade and water. Not even the slightest bit of yellow. If I don't transplant into coco soon she might get hungry. But if I want to wait for the other clones,(each taken a day after the next lol) I can trim roots and dip the clone into a nute solution for the mothers, let it obsorb and the plant restocks its reserves, without putting nutes in my spotless cloner. That's the real reason I don't use anythin, makes the cloner grosser. Lol

I also never get a stall or burns from transplanting into my coco. Make sure stuffs not too full of nutrients or salts, they should be ok
Before

After

These are like week or so after transplant I believe, two weeks max.

 

[Daub Marley]

I can almost guarantee you heat is the problem. It's the biggest issue that is constantly overlooked. keep your cuttings below 80°F and you'll succeed because everything else is minor in comparison. You actually want cool leaves and warm roots.
If you get them to root quickly enough there will be no yellowing as the yellowing indicates the clone is using its energy reserves and thus has been exposed to light without roots for too long. Also some strain are just way harder to clone than others.

 

[Dready_jake]

I can almost guarantee you heat is the problem. It's the biggest issue that is constantly overlooked. keep your cuttings below 80°F and you'll succeed because everything else is minor in comparison. You actually want cool leaves and warm roots.
If you get them to root quickly enough there will be no yellowing as the yellowing indicates the clone is using its energy reserves and thus has been exposed to light without roots for too long. Also some strain are just way harder to clone than others.

Lol sometime people explain shit waaaaay better than me lol

This↑ is spot on