True Terpenes VISCOSITY extract liquifier LAB TESTS: Mineral oil but no terps!!

[ExtractNinja]

am I understanding this correctly,

True Terpenes submitted sample does not match IE they submitted something different possibly?

The lab Gray wolf used took it upon themselves to order a sample from TT unbeknownst to TT and test it. They ordered Viscosity when it was first released years ago. They found a triterpene which woudl be squalane (from olives) or squalene (from sharks).

TT submitted a sample a few months ago to Anresco lab. The chromatogram appears to be the same substance as what I have gotten tested according to MagisterChemist. TT didnt try to get any peaks identified.

All teh samples I, Old Gold, and Gray Wolf tested all came to teh same conclusion: no terpenes at all, none. The labs I and Gray Wofl used came to the same conclusions about possibly being crude oil derived mineral oil mixed with other stuff, or as Gray wolfs lab found it could be some very heavy vegetable oil.



TL;DR we know its not terpenes or terpenoids, but we dont know what it is exactly except it is probably mineral oil or heavy vegetable or a mix.

 

[ExtractNinja]

Shouldnt this thread be a sticky now? who do I contact to ask for that?

 

[p0opstlnksal0t]

Interesting

 

[dank.frank]

"we've been busted and can't get away with lying to you all anymore" - TT

Internal audit my ass. Talk about being so full of it they don't even know they are lying anymore.



dank.Frank

 

[Old Gold]

I'm pressing my lab, I was supposed to get photos from them yesterday! Sorry!

 

[Gray Wolf]

Future backed up all their lies time and time again, he even claims he knows what is in Viscosity and hes still backing up TT.

Does that exclude the possibility that Future thinks he knows what is in it and is mistaken, or that his sample is different than mine?

Certainly given his professional relationship, he could be expected to support his membership from unwarranted outside attack. It is also fairly clear from his response that he hasn't concluded that his client is disingenuous and tried to distance himself.

His response to receiving the same test results that I received are conjecture.

What if the supply is inconsistent and there is more than one "formula" floating about?

We have test results that say for sure that Viscosity was at one time a tri-terpene, and another test by the same lab that says that the samples that I submitted no longer are.

I purchased one sample from a grow store, and refused the first package that they presented, accepting the second.

I had a friend order and pick up a sample directly from TT so there was no possibility of me being recognized, but waited for him in the car, in the parking lot, so I could reliably insure that friendship aside, there was no possibility that he had time to adulterate the sample.

I popped the outer containers open, to reveal that they contained a foam peanut, a dropper, and a container of Viscosity, that does not have a tamper proof shrink wrap seal.

I closed both containers and wrapped them with tape, before sticking them in a mailer and sending them to a friend's lab.

I've asked for a GC/MS comparison of those two, and the two reference samples.

My two other samples were decanted into ostensibly clean containers by an associate, from his customers previously opened sources, so were not certifiable.

I also sent them to the lab by reliable sources, but these non-certifiable samples have enough transfers to be only possible supporting reference data.

 

[Future4200]

My first samples are "being processed" by the lab. And have been for weeks. I'll be getting my money back to say the least.

I have, however, acquired additional anonymous samples from various places around the country and will be conferring with Gray Wolf tomorrow about where to send them to validate his results.


I was informed that viscosity is squalane by an anonymous source within TT, but was denied privy to the ingredients by all of the ownership.

The fact that GW has lab results showing mineral oil in the viscosity is reprehensible, and TT will be held accountable.


Good for you for bringing this to light EN. Shame on you for continuously insulting and slandering me while doing so.

You truly are a scholar and an asshole.

 

[Lrus007]

been reading this a while now.
i have no pony in this horse race.
want to thank a few of you for doing this.
Lrus007

 

[G.O. Joe]

(This involves posts at the other board too, same as my last post in this thread.)

How much of these samples is classified as nonvolatile? This is important if you want to call it vegetable oil. Were these nonvolatiles removed before injection? This is important if the operator doesn't want to clean the column and/or inlet. Did anyone do any sample prep at all? Did anyone get a peak lone enough for MS? Did labs getting different chromatograms do things a different way?

If it wasn't done, SPE/SPME as needed shouldn't add thousands to the cost. If the nonvolatiles are not being separated, then sample prep could give separation suitable for MS.

There are the chemical treatments I've mentioned that are possible. There's also vacuum distillation to separate the most volatile part out. If you suspect vegetable oil, you could do the biodiesel treatment yourself as many others have. This converts undistillable vegetable oil to methyl or ethyl esters with well-known retention times on standard columns and programs. A combination of esters and proportions that can provide hints as to which oil.

There hasn't been any MS yet and nothing has really been identified, no? I suspect that Dr. Bob has software giving him a possible match for this and that particular time, but not calibrated in any way, like he has ever run standards of the bigger alkanes through his machine. That's what the terpene and pesticide labs do, they identify by retention time on the column compared to something known and run on their machine by their process and operators. Without this comparison with an authentic standard and especially without MS, retention time is just a guess. So much of analysis of unknowns is getting a near match from both the GC and MS data.

The naming of certain alkanes in his report has been used to justify a guess of vegetable oil, instead of the mineral oil suggested by the lab - this is where the amount of nonvolatiles comes in. Alkanes are a tiny fraction of vegetable oil - this is not mentioned by the table of alkanes of safflower oil unsaponifiables at the other site.

 

[GLGanonmember]

Future is obviously on TT payroll

The strawman said it was squalene! Get him!

 

[Sertaiz]

goddamn long ass hell yeah one victory!!!

and all the bs nailed the coffin. they will survive but hopefully others will learn if it costs them millions... how not to lie to people....

 

[GLGanonmember]

The original description before Extract Ninja started testing

 

[hush]

I have never gone through so much popcorn in one thread than I did with this one!

 

[GLGanonmember]

Very interesting posts made by someone claiming he thought it was squalene

 

[CannaRed]

Future, which players are you mad at now? You mad at the game, too?

 

[Gray Wolf]

I asked my favorite doctor of molecular biology to review our results to date and simply identify if the sample came from plants or petrochemical. He asked for a couple MS runs on broad peaks and a NIST study of the results. More when I have those results.

 

[P. Dondrub]

I feel bad for putting this stuff in any carts I put out! Thank you very much to all active participants in this thread!

 

[Gray Wolf]

As we wait, it might be a handy time to walk around what has happened to date and view it from the different perspectives.

It has been proffered that various parties were mal-intended, as opposed to just mistaken and reacting to an attack, and viewing the attack from their perspective, the attackers motives and agenda fall into question.

Some of the players are a known commodity, with others anonymous, adding yet another layer of mystique and uneven playing field.

At times, I felt under attack, and as you may note responded accordingly. At the time I of course felt that it was the natural and proper thing to do.

Consider what your response might have been to similar perceived attacks in this thread, if you believed them unwarranted.

We've identified that my Viscosity sample was not 100% terpenes as labeled, but have no proof that TT didn't think it was. We in fact know that at one time it was a triterpene.

TT is certainly culpable for the results, but what are the real facts leading up to this debacle?

What was the relabeling to better reflect content? Does it reflect initial ignorance on their part as to what makes a terpene, oversight changing a label after changing the formula, or etc.

It does show they responded to the input from our clangorous crowd, rather than fluffing us off, though there are some of us whom believe they would have been better served by greater openness surrounding those changes.

Moving up a level, if TT were consciously mislabeling product, is it likely that they would confide their dark secret to Future, or that they would do their best to sell him on their innocence?

By the same token, if they believed their product was 100% terpenes, what would they be telling Future?

If you were Future and your client with an otherwise stellar reputation was under what you perceived to be an unwarranted attack, what would be your first response? What would be your response between that time and when you could process samples to establish truth?

Consider not only EN's approach, but the rest of the comments added.

A personal attack is the fastest way to draw an opponents defenses into play, where the only real question that we will ever be able to answer with 100% assiduity is the samples actual content. Looking into our opponents heart is as much conjecture as him looking into ours, and charging them with malfeasance hardens their defenses, making it harder for them to work with us in a positive manner.

Is our goal to ferret out the truth about Viscosity, or pummel each other?

 

[AgentPothead]

If you want to profit so badly you harm other people, you are a piece of shit. Full stop.
Lying to protect your own ass is something sociopaths do, not people. I want to thank Gray Wolf and EN for taking the time and effort to get these tested and posted. And Gray, you are way too optimistic bro. You give them the benefit of the doubt, when their own actions show they do not deserve that benefit.

 

[Gray Wolf]

I feel bad for putting this stuff in any carts I put out! Thank you very much to all active participants in this thread!

Not an unreasonable reaction under the circumstances and an issue that I believe requires greater consideration of the long term effects of vaping the various dillutents used in carts.

I personally don't use them because I am concerned that they are insalubrious and in a few years, there will be numerous lawsuits claiming damages.

How will they defend themselves in court if their constituents are not on the approved 599 list???