True Terpenes VISCOSITY extract liquifier LAB TESTS: Mineral oil but no terps!!

[Future4200]

These are just some preliminary tests, but Anresco labs concludes that True Terpenes Viscosity is certainly not mineral oil.

Further more, I toured the True Terpenes GMP certified mfg facility today. It would be incredibly difficult for them to adulterate products with Mineral Oil and fly under the radar with the amount of scrutiny they subject themselves to.

Samples that I anonymously acquired are being sent to a separate lab today to confirm these findings.

Something to note, this level of testing is not $300/test as the OP claimed. Or send me over that coupon code if you wanna stick to that. Both of these tests are costing thousands of dollars to perform

 

[old_thrashbarg]

Coming here from Reddit, and I read through this and the future thread.

Can I just say, having worked in manufacturing for an ISO certified facility, that I find it extremely disturbing that the manufacturer was not able to take the lot numbers provided by OP and respond to that. I honestly don't care what analysis they provide at this point, these guys got caught with their pants down not conducting proper quality control.

They should/could have squashed this whole thing in January when OP provided the lot numbers instead of claiming it was a fake product. If they had proper QC procedures in place, the lot number should have been traced to a batch number which should have had a quality control report. TT should have at least been able to say "that's not a valid lot number" or "our testing of that batch/lot confirms the product meets our quality standards".

 

[AgentPothead]

Here is the SDS sheet required by law:


https://buy-terpenes.com/certificates/sds/VISCOSITY_SDS_True_Terpenes.pdf

Aspiration Hazard May be fatal if swallowed and enters airways.

Also the only listed ingredient is, drum roll, Viscosity. That SDS provides literally nothing of value, except telling us it's fatal if swallowed.
IF SWALLOWED: Immediately call a POISON CENTER or doctor/physician. Do NOT induce vomiting

 

[evil_this]

I'm all over the reddit thread.

Frankly, you have someone with significant credibility saying they've toured a facility and appears they put themselves under considerable scrutiny.

As for not responding directly to the "lot number" BS, they likely just listened to a PR agent and didn't directly interact with the troll.

 

[AgentPothead]

I'm all over the reddit thread.

Frankly, you have someone with significant credibility saying they've toured a facility and appears they put themselves under considerable scrutiny.

As for not responding directly to the "lot number" BS, they likely just listened to a PR agent and didn't directly interact with the troll.

Toured a facility 2 months after it was brought to their attention? You honestly expect me to believe they weren't working overtime the past 2 months fixing the problem before letting a single outside eye in? C'mon, you really believe that? You honestly made an account to say that? Ya'll realize the mods can see the IP of the poster and if a bunch of shills show up, they will make it obvious. I'm not saying you are. I'm just getting ready for the flood of posters with 1 post defending TT.

 

[old_thrashbarg]

I'm all over the reddit thread.

Frankly, you have someone with significant credibility saying they've toured a facility and appears they put themselves under considerable scrutiny.

As for not responding directly to the "lot number" BS, they likely just listened to a PR agent and didn't directly interact with the troll.

Are you kidding me?

If a customer calls into question the quality of your product in a public forum, while providing lot numbers, PR is going to say "ignore it"?

Have you ever worked in product development/management/sales/distribution? No one would ever manage a product that way if they were on the up and up. At the least, they weren't doing QC before and they're doing it now, but we'll see what kind of photos Future digs up because so far all he posted was a photo of him at a shipping warehouse, and three meaningless binders.

 

[AgentPothead]

If I had to wager, a shipping warehouse is their "facility" and they are just mixing stuff they are buying off site. And I like that he keeps mentioning GMP, like that means something. Do you have a copy of their FDA registration handy? I mean you guys did register with the FDA as a manufacturer of tobacco products right?

 

[old_thrashbarg]

Yeah, I'd bet the same thing. No way they're moving enough liquid terpene to have their own ISO certified facility. I'd wager they buy in bulk from a quality perfumer or food grade flavor manufacturer, mix into little bottles, slap a label and ship. I'd be impressed if these guys did viscosity tests on their final shipping product, let alone any GC-MS on what they actually ship out the door.

Then again, if they did, that would actually justify the price.

 

[Brian420PM]

I hope someone has filled out FDA form 3500 and sent them registered to BOTH TT and the FDA to get this thing moving in the right direction. It's clear from TT's official statement and the facility tour fiasco they've lawyered up.

It's critically important that whoever files the 3500 report have some product sealed and obtained, with receipts, BEFORE this thread was started. I would bet they've already made changes and current production will test OK. Just stick with the facts so TT can't come after you.

I'm just gonna steam distill some herb and dilute my rosin and bubble hash and make my OWN fluid for cartridges. Fk this corporate bs!

 

[old_thrashbarg]

I posted too many times in the future thread but let me say this:

@ future, If Lot 19010712 was tested, are you really saying that lots 18110509 and 19013009 are sublots of 19010712?

I've seen that done in manufacturing before, usually to imply a higher volume of product being moved than it is, but usually sublots have letters assigned to them, or are of a numbering scheme. These are all eight digit numbers.

If that's the claim from TT then that's the claim, that somehow lot 18110509 and 19013009 are sublots of 19010712, what about lot 18129601?

I find that claim to be highly dubious, usually you pull a lot from a batch, or vice versa depending on your production nomenclature. I've never ever in my life seen a sub lot be numbered in the same manner as a lot. I'm calling bullshit on that.

 

[old_thrashbarg]

Hey, I got locked out of your forum, probably bc I'm a new user. Just wanted you to see my response on the lot numbers. I think TT is lying to you.

 

[AgentPothead]

There is a 60 seconds between postings, you might have to wait for that to run out, but we see your posts here thrash. And I agree with you on lot numbers, never seen it that way, but always a first time I suppose.

 

[Future4200]

If I had to wager, a shipping warehouse is their "facility" and they are just mixing stuff they are buying off site. And I like that he keeps mentioning GMP, like that means something. Do you have a copy of their FDA registration handy? I mean you guys did register with the FDA as a manufacturer of tobacco products right?

They have regular FDA inspections and run a fully compliant, and accountable facility.

Here's a copy of their FDA registration.

 

[Ringodoggie]

Sounds like Future has already made his decision and is talking for TT. Or, are Future and TT the same poster? Sure starting to sound like it as he defends every post against TT.

 

[CannaRed]

Aspiration Hazard May be fatal if swallowed and enters airways.

Also the only listed ingredient is, drum roll, Viscosity. That SDS provides literally nothing of value, except telling us it's fatal if swallowed.
IF SWALLOWED: Immediately call a POISON CENTER or doctor/physician. Do NOT induce vomiting

The part I like is

" if breathed in, move person to fresh air."
"Skin contact: wash off with plenty soap and water. CONSULT A PHYSICIAN "( TT told us to touch it, because mineral oil won't absorb in our skin like viscosity)
And my favorite-
"Precautions for safe handling:
avoid inhalation of vapours or mist."

We can't breathe it or touch it, but it's cool to vape it and breath it?

Also thought it was funny that the viscosity of Viscosity was not available.

 

[CannaRed]

Are you kidding me?

If a customer calls into question the quality of your product in a public forum, while providing lot numbers, PR is going to say "ignore it"?
.

That's possible. They need a real p.r. department

 

[Future4200]

Sounds like Future has already made his decision and is talking for TT. Or, are Future and TT the same poster? Sure starting to sound like it as he defends every post against TT.

TT is one of my GLG affiliates. Part of the deal is I have your back, unless I find out you are fucking people over, then you get publicly shamed.

As far as I can tell, TT did not intentionally put mineral oil in this product and has followed their rigerous QC protocols to make sure that a supplier didn't use mineral oil and mislabel it.

Gray Wolf can vouch that I am in fact, not TT

 

[Future4200]

The part I like is

" if breathed in, move person to fresh air."
"Skin contact: wash off with plenty soap and water. CONSULT A PHYSICIAN "( TT told us to touch it, because mineral oil won't absorb in our skin like viscosity)
And my favorite-
"Precautions for safe handling:
avoid inhalation of vapours or mist."

We can't breathe it or touch it, but it's cool to vape it and breath it?

Also thought it was funny that the viscosity of Viscosity was nor available.

Most Terpene SDS say the same thing, including the common Terpenes found in cannabis.

Poison is in the dose

 

[CannaRed]

TT is one of my GLG affiliates. Part of the deal is I have your back, unless I find out you are fucking people over, then you get publicly shamed.

As far as I can tell, TT did not intentionally put mineral oil in this product and has followed their rigerous QC protocols to make sure that a supplier didn't use mineral oil and mislabel it.

Gray Wolf can vouch that I am in fact, not TT

They follow it today. What about a few months ago? Can you vouch for that somehow? because ninjas bottles weren't made today.

 

[ExtractNinja]

LOL at the tests Future just posted. Read the discussion here, page 5: https://future4200.com/t/true-terpenes/12544/82

The new member old_thrashbarg wrote some great comments at the link above

And I will post here my responses on Futrue4200 for reference for people that dont want to go to F4200:


1

Future4200

True Terpenes is being replicated across the board, imo its more likely he got counterfeit Viscosity for that first sample. It would be incredibly difficult for an entire batch to get “lost”

Nope. I ordered from TT website so unless they sent me THREE counterfeit bottles from THREE different batche lots (purchased from November to February) then they are selling mineral oil.
I have a feeling this is going to turn our really bad for you Future. I dont understand why your standing on the deck of the Titanic with a martini in your hand. Your good name is tied to the ship now, and if/when it goes down you may too. Just something to think about.


I also dont understand how you can take their word for it when Im providing scientific proof and evidence. And they are providing their word alone, as well as leaning on their long friendship with you.

@old_thrashbarg

They never responded to the lot number OP provided in the ICMAG thread that I can think of. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
​

Nope, never did. Just kept trying to get my real identity and didnt even care I shared the lots. Here they are again: 18110509, 18129601, and 19013009


Gray Wolf purchased two bottles from hydro stores shelves to get older product, and ordered bottle to get new product. So he can test a range of batches. And Old Gold got a bottle from the site he’s going to test and I’m going to pay for.

2

Future4200
With them concluding that “the two samples are not the same”, ie Viscosity is not mineral oil.

A few questions
Is that from a bottle your friend who blind purchased from TT? Or did TT give you that bottle?
Did you send the sample the lab youself?
Was it unopened?


I’m not sure thats the right lab to use for this type of testing, it would be better to send it to Dr. Pappas. The 3rd lab I used already did this same testing and found the chromatograms closely matched. Also, as all three labs said, there’s more in there than mineral oil, it’s not JUST mineral oil. So there will not be an exact match.


Those chormatograms don’t identify any peaks and Id like to hear what @MagisterChemist thinks

3

Future4200
Hmmm an anonymous Internet guy, or a long standing friendship with a very reputable, GMP certified company? Why would I choose one over the other?

One has proof, the ohter is just words. And they won’t even tell you what it is.

Future4200
Gray Wolf and I are personal friends, and we have also been in contact multiple times about this.

Great same here except for the friend part.

Future4200
I’m not “taking their word for it”, I replicated the tests and found different conclusions. I then toured their facility. If you think it’s just a walk in the park to swap out some mineral oil for registered products in a food grade, GMP certified facility, then I have to question how much experience you have with GMP facilities.

You should stop carrying their water with the FDA BS. The FDA doesn’t do what they say it does implying the walk through and checking of all products. Same with GMP. They totally can have mineral oil on site and the FDA or GMP wouldnt be affected atall.

Future4200
Thus far, we are taking your word for it afa you being honest about any of this.

Yes and that why I put out the call for independent testers like Old Gold and Gray Wolf. Also why I offered to pay for up to 4 tests ($800-1200) by them. I don’t see TT doing the same. Instead they go to you, their “guy”. if they really stood behind their products they would be happy to have them tested by people they are not in business with.

4

Future4200
Lots 18110509 and 19013009 are both 1oz viscosity sublots of the same lot. They are part of the same lot that was tested by anresco in the results I posted.
Also, I filed an official complaint with True Terpenes over this whole thing. That forces them to audit the whole process. Complaint number 142 for anyone interested

Out of curiosity, how can two different lots be from the same lot?
And if you tested the same lots I did then how could your friend have blind purchased? If you really used a blind purchase it seems like you couldnt have gotten the same lots. It seems to get the same lots you would have coordinated with TT.


Let me also say thank you for doing this. While Im very suspicious of your testing at least you offer some data. Too bad TT didnt take it this seriously 2 months ago.

5

Future4200
Anresco is a FDA certified and ISO compliant analytical lab. They are more than capable of identifying the compounds in question, unless someone has good reason why not?

FDA and ISO stuff don’t matter in this case. TT loves to throw around those acronyms like they matter.


It’s the lab’s specialty that matters. Those chromatograms don’t identify any peaks or identify any compounds. Anresco is a food and cannabis testing lab, not specializing in essential oil and terpenes, nor in petroleum distillate.

6

So they claim to order a drum of squalane and then sell what they claim is only squalane for $6K a gallon? Wow.


But that doesn’t include the cost of the mineral oil in Viscosity. I guess they add mineral oil to reduce their costs and make even more money?

7

Future4200
Again, my samples that were ordered anonymously are currently in the mail to get tested. What I posted are the results TT got back when submitting their viscosity product, from the same batch as two of your bottles, to the lab for redundant testing to make absolutely sure the supplier didn’t ship mineral oil and call it viscosity.


I will have the results on the samples that TT had no way of knowing were for me, as soon as the lab sends em

Ah! I didn’t see you mention that before. So why the heck did you bother posting something that we can’t put any faith in? You posted resutls from a GC of a product that TT sent in That’s just trying to muddy the waters my man. Uncool!


You say what you posted refuts what I posted? LOL. Come on man! That does nothing of hte sort if TT send in the sample

8

Future4200
No, the results I posted are from TT internal testing, following up on your claims that the batch was contaminated. SOP for them.

I never claim it was contaminated, that’s what TT claimed at first. I think they are simply lying and know well what they are doing with adding mineral oil.

Future4200
My completely anonymous samples were delivered to my friend yesterday, and were overnighted to a separate lab today.

Great thanks. Please consider removing the GC stuff you posted that came from TT. That’s just weak sauce posting that IME.
I do have faith in you so Ill wait for you report. But I have most faith in Gray Wolf and Old Gold. So IME their testing, especially Gray Wolf is all that matters.

Future4200
I have tried to contact Dr Pappas multiple times with no response

I can help you reach him. I have his cell # and hes on WhatsApp. He prefers texting and WhatsAPp, or FB messages. He doens’t like emailing or calling on the phone. If you FB message him or WhatsApp him you should hear back in a day or three.


MassTerpenes is also sending all their stuff to Dr. Pappas after I started all this work.

9

Future4200
You started this entire thing posting something that we can’t have faith in. I’m building a preponderance of evidence to expose you as the troll that you are seeming more and more likely to be.

So what will you do if the next 7-8 tests being done show I’m right? Seriosly, what will you do?


I’m the one who WANTS more testing by other people. In fact I’m paying for 4 more tests which will cost me around $1K. I want more testing because I know ppl don’t trust me and because Im tellilng the truth. TT does not want more testing. What does that tell you about whos honest and who isnt?