Troubles with PBP

[Playaction]

WOW....i'm seeing this time and time again with PBP users... including myself.
check out these other posts of PBP users... same type of issues...Brown spots start on leaves.. they then turn yellow and crispy. What could it be?

I think the label recommended nute dosage is extremely high. This in turn causes all kind of issues... salt build ups...ph issues and lockout. I use PBP Soil, LK, and just recently after my problem began I started using cal/mag and sugardaddy. Plants seem to be recovering and new growth looks healthy.

Using the PBP and LK I saw these same issues as mentioned in this post and the other links below... Plants where looking great and I started using the recommended dosage for aggressive flowering... 45ml/gal or pbp 15ml/gal of lk... this caused ph to drop very low around 3.5-4... ppms were about 2200..had to add a ton of ph up to reach 6.0 in coco/hydroton. In Retrospect.. i'd use much lower strenghts of nutes along low strengths of supplements. In the end i'm still not sure if its actually nute burn or a deficiency, but I do think the high dosage recommendation are to much for a less that PERFECT environment.


http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=49086&highlight=pbp
International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums - HELP!!! Moz, can't figure out WTF is goin on

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=48096&page=2&pp=15&highlight=pbp+yellow
International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums - need some advice please guys...

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=857271#post857271
International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums - redux: Advanced Mg defiency?

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=48468&highlight=pbp
International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums - Am I burning my kids?

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=48885&highlight=pbp
International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums - 5 weeks in DWC under 240W and only 6" tall! Burn or Deficiency?

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=25347&highlight=pbp+yellow
International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums - Magnesium Defeciency???? Need Help

 

[stussy22]

ya saw ur post over at Deficiencies or Overferting? think they are fucking up on sometihng over there or what? havent used PBP myself always stuck with that fox farm. But something smells fishy if that many poeple are having problems.

 

[Playaction]

I Think its a good product... just very concentrated. I also think a cal/mag/iron supplement is a must with pbp. when that is handled then other supplements can enhance production

 

[TrichomusCaesar]

you are right....I am a PBP and LK user myself and I dilute to quarter strength to start out...some plants like a little more as they increase in size....some strain are even really picky and like even less.

I strongly advise who uses PBP to start off at 1/4 strength.

 

[SEEDYNONO]

yeah its tough to know.. cannabis seems to have a large spread of tolerance for pbp (bloom especially) among different strains.

i've fed very light feedings (no more than 10ml/gal) for my flo girls and most did okay with that. one didn't even put up with that much..

good..









bad..

 

[kush07]

Those don't even look like the same deficiencies bro. Maybe the last two threads where the same one but all the others are different.

 

[Playaction]

How do you know what def's you are going to get when you overfeed? Anything could get out of whack. Every plant will show different tolerances and different symptons. Just check out what SEEDYNONO posted. Point is... PBP recommended dosages can be hazardous to your plants.. so start with very low strenghts.

 

[Mesquite]

I have grown with PBP for two years, spanning many grows that yielded poorly to amazeing. Always with PBP i have had crazy necrotic leaves. My best two grows with it yeilded me .6 and .72 grams per watt per month of bloom, even with the random deficiencies.
I have found that in DWC i never need to rise above an EC of 1.0!!! It is much easier to deal with minor nute deficiencies than to deal with overnute problems. You will have strangelooning leaves when useing PBP and thats ok. don't pump em full of nutes. this won't solve anything.
God, the hours i spent lurking on overgrow, thrying to diagnose one problem or another, i think PBP just has nute imbalances, the give and take of semi-organic grows.
I ven spoke with a botanicare rep who told me that PBP gave him the same problems, so he just uses triflex! (i have never used this product, so i can't say one way or the other.)
I used these products at these RATIOS:
10ml Karma
10ml Sweet (more if slight mg def shows)
5ml calmag
20-25ml PBP bloom or grow

My ea

 

[Mesquite]

My early veg ppms ( in DWC remember, the "roots in nutes" hydrogardening might need less nutes) were 170ppm. I vegged for a month with six plants under 1kw and never got hotter that 350ppm. THis is with a 0.5 milawauke TDS reader.

In bloom i never got above 500ppm. this is for my successful grows. I alwys got way less with higher PPMS.

I also LOVE (say it again, LOVE) eel river hydros "gravity". It seems expensive, but you use so little. i just reduced my ppms by half, drop in 2ml per gallon, and only let it go for 3 -4days, flush and slowly bump back up to full strength( which is like .8-.9 ec at). I do this three weeks before harvest.
so thats the story, i'll monitor this site to follow up for the next week. i feel like i have a lot to offer the PBP community, even though i just stopped useing thier products to test out canna. I still love PBP, but i wonder if i can't get up to a full g/watt/month!
my partner during the two years of PBP has just switched over to Flora Nova one part with floralicious and weet and is lOVing it.

 

[Guest]

pbp is good stuff, but it is a mild soulution so a meter is handy when it comes to getting accurate feedings, i agree with the calmag supplement but in low doses and not so frequent(only when needed) i never heard of triflex and if the guy at the shop uses it, maybe its good stuff...personally i like floralicious and topmax flower boost along with the pbp...

 

[jerseydro]

pbp LESS IS MORE remember that youll like what you see cal mag foiler feed if need use a light dose in your rez solution plants will tell you when to step it up

 

[DJ_highst_]

sorry for the dumb question but what does PBP stand for? I always see this acronym and dont know what it stands for. I am always guessing Pure Blend xxx or Botanicare Pro something. I dont know I am lost.....????

Sorry to hyjack the thread. peace_highst

 

[Guest]

PBP, or Pure Blend Pro, is a fantastic nute. I really like having 1 bottle to mess with, 1 measurement to take and ZERO mixing of nutes. Through my trial and errors I have learned the following which may help:

DO NOT FOLLOW BOTANICARE'S RECOMMENDATIONS - Let's face it, these guys are into it for the money. More product you use, more you will buy. Their recommendations are WAY over the limits for pretty much any plant you'd grow (including tomatoes, which can really suck up the nutes).

DO NOT USE PBP GROW - it's a killer and 9 times outta 10 you will burn your plants. Stick with PBP BLOOM only.

DO NOT USE ADDITIVES UNTIL YOU KNOW THE PLANTS ACTUALLY CAN USE THEM (including CalMag, unless using R/O water) - Most people use these additives to try and make up for what their nute solution lacks. They should NOT be used as damage control, only as enhancers to what is already present .

USE A TDS METER - It's really simple. Fill rez with water, then add nutes, stir, let sit for a few minutes, take TDS reading. I try to follow the following (.7 conversion): Seedling 150ppm, and every 7 days increase TDS by 200ppm unless problems are noticed, then back off by 100ppm. Continue this until you reach 1400ppm or an EC of 2.
*Note: If using DWC do NOT add nutes while roots are submerged.

CLEAN AND CALIBRATE TDS METER REGULARLY - If ya dont do this, your readings could easily be way off causing burning or lack of nutes.


That's about it. I've found that by following this method my pH balances itself out, I never have to change the rez water and there is no burning.

 

[Mesquite]

Wow man, Like i said up there, I never went above an EC of 1.0 (700 ppm with your tds), guess its all strain dependant! and depends on your setup. But you definately have it right, get a TDS meter and LESS IS MORE. you the man, keep it up jersey
Klutter, i wish i'd have followed your advice years ago, you got it right man. However, for you newbies out there, only bump it up GENTLY as the plants show signs of deficiency. If they are growing, let them grow. better to fight deficiencies than overferts. Nitro def and Mag are usually the first to show.
Also, i've had more probs with the bloom fert than the grow, wonder why. whats your tap ppm klutter?

 

[Guest]

Tap is 124ppm... amazingly mild compared to others who have well water. I was going to go with the R/O route (after reading up on the bio buckets) but I learned a LOOONG time ago.... spend money on new equipment only when you've tested your current config and know you need it! Can't tell ya how much crap I've picked up from a hydro store that I later ended up selling on ebay

I'm surprised to hear you have better results with Grow than Bloom - I bet that's why you never go above an EC 1. Give Bloom a try - average used is 15-16ml per gal once I get em maxed out. I even ditched my pH down...when I need to raise the pH I just add tap water, when I want to lower it I just use nutes! haha. Nice and simple - 1 bottle to rule them all!

 

[Blackvelvet]

Here are the ppm numbers for pbp:

Pure Blend Pro Grow
3-1.5-4
1.0625 grams/ml
@10ml/Gal
N 84
P 18
K 93
Mg 14
Ca 28
Fe 0

Pure Blend Pro Bloom Hydro
2.5-2-5
1.0625 grams/ml
@10ml/Gal
N 70
P 24
K 116
Mg 14
Ca 28
Fe 0

Pure Blend Pro Bloom Soil
1.5-4-5
1.0625 grams/ml
@10ml/Gal
N 42
P 49
K 116
Mg 14
Ca 28


Botanicare Cal Mag Plus
2-0-0
1.0208 grams/ml
@10ml/Gal
N 54
P 0
K 0
Mg 32
Ca 86
Fe 2.7

Nitrogen is the element that you control most on growing because it has the biggest inpact on the plant.

Seedlings first feed 50-75 ppm nitrogen
Seedling feed 100 ppm n
Regular growing 100-150 ppm n
Full strength grow in sunlight/greenhouse 200 ppm n
Flowering 100 ppm n

If you are using dolomite lime in a soil mix, you do not need to add cal mag plus or similar. If you are in hydro or your soil mix lacks dol. lime or your soil mix has not been limed in quite a while (like a month or more), you should add cal mag plus or similar. Try to achieve 4 parts potassium to 2 parts calcium to 1 part magnesium. So 100 potassium (k), you would have 50 calcium (ca), and 25 magnesium (mg) This keeps a balance...these 3 compete with each other.

Another thing to keep in mind is phosphorus levels especially in hydro because the level of p is low in the hydro formulation. Aim for at least 30 p (up to maybe 60 max).

Example: We have some clones maybe 8" or larger in a hydro setup. We choose 150 ppm nitrogen to feed them using pbp grow. Look at the numbers that are known above for 10 ml per gallon grow. This is 84 ppm nitrogen. 150 ppm n desired/84 ppm n in 10 ml = 1.78 1.78 x 10ml= 17.8 ml per gallon of water pbp grow. If you multiply 1.78 times the grow numbers you get:

n 150
p 32
k 166
ca 50
mg 25

We also need cal mag plus with this. Remember 4:2:1 k to ca to mg
166/2 = amount of calcium needed = 83
We have 50 already. 83-50 = 33 calcium from cal mag plus. 10 ml per gallon =86 ppm ca if you look above. 33desired/86 in 10 ml = .38 .38 x 10 ml cal mag plus = 3.8 ml cal mag plus per gallon. If you multiply the cal mag know numbers for 10 ml by .38 you get:
ca 33
mg 12
n 21

Total for both cal mag plus 3.8 ml + 17.8 ml pbp grow
n 171
p 32
k 166
ca 83
mg 37

We were aiming for 150 ppm n. Close enough. I did this rapidly. You can tinker around to get it more perfect.

So you will find the directions on the bottle are too strong. This is a better way.

Pbp and cal mag plus numbers courtesy of Shroomdr.

 

[Mesquite]

Yeah klutter, I use both, grow all the way into week 1 of bloom and then switch to bloom. I just noticed most of those problems started in bloom while i was useing the bloom ferts. Still got great results! definately needs more Mg, calmag of epsom.

Black velvet, i found those nute concentrations to be WAY to hot on several strains. This was in DWC though.