troubles...with bubbles

[crisscross]

I am doing the dwc bucket bubbler. Round 1 went to the bad guys...I fried my plant with nutes and light. I also managed to get what I think was fungus gnats in my jiffy pellet. yay. the good thing is that I knew I was going to have problems first go round so I used a bag seed. I just got some albino rhino seeds and I am going to start over though and it's time for question asking.

I need some advice on getting this thing started. I have jiffy pellet and I would like to use them again but with the caveat that there will be no fungus gnats. possible?
I am still confused on getting roots/germinated. I take seed-put seed into jiffy pellet. water jiffy pellet, keep area humid, warm and dark? once seed germinates and sprouts do I expose the pellet to artificial light at full strength or limited light? at what point do I take pellet and place into hydroton with bubblers? I am frustrated. please help a ignoramus out. I can assure you I have been lurking the forums and I have searched and searched with no clear answers. Once I have one successful grow under my belt I will make a complete guide for the true first timer. thanks for the help

 

[jm420]

fuck the jiffy pellets try 1.5 x 1.5 rockwool...TRy the paper towell method or glass of water till the tail comes out.
Do not put into a sysytem till you can see roots

Keep your lights far away at first if using HID's ,if cfl'skeep as close as possible .little to no nutes ph 5.8 till roots hit the res .Read Freezer boys thunk diary alot of great info there .
Peace Jm

 

[crisscross]

jm420 my friend! rep given just for answering my question. So I germ in towel, stick in rockwool (tail down) and hand water the rockwool on a tray or something until roots appear out of the rockwool. right?

approx how many nodes will I have when roots are coming through rockwool?
before roots come through rockwool should I keep under cfl?
at what point can I take 'rooted' rockwool and put into bucket net with hydroton?
when rockwool is put into new with hydroton, how high from the bottom of the net should the roots be? if the little tree is short should I add clean hydroton to the net as the plant gets taller?

thank you so much

 

[jm420]

I wait till i see a few roots coming threw Rockwool before placing in net pots .I use 3 inch pots with 1 layer of hydroton place in net pot and fill pot with hydrotn.Keep res level so its just at the level of first layer of hydroton basically the pot is submerged about 1/2 inch

Typically it will only be the first set of leaves no nodes to speak.I use the lucas formula at 0-5-10 ph 5.8 - 6.0 You can use cfl's at this point but i pesonally use a 400 hid at about 3 feet and lower as needed .
The most important thing is treating your rockwool first in a ph water of 5.5 if you skip this step your bound for failure. also i rinse my hydron in this same 5.5 mix and soak for a 1/2 hour or so
another good read is Lucas formula by lucas .I dont know how to post links but its here somewhere

 

[FreezerBoy]

I've never understood the paper towel thing. Why germ in material unfit for growing? Towels have no magic powers. A proper medium, kept warm and moist, will neither freeze or dehydrate your seed. Whatever you think the towel will do, a medium actually fit for growing will do better, faster and safer.

Personally, I get my sprouts or newly rooted clones in the main tub the moment they pop up or show a root. With seed, I sprout under my big lamp so no acclimation is required. Seeds expect to come up under the full power of the sun in all it's blazing glory. They laugh at our puny 1000 watt penlights. Because clones prefer low light, they need to be acclimated to the big lamp over a matter of days. I place them under the big lamp at "noon" so their first exposure is only a half-day under the big lamp followed by a good night's sleep.

Remember nute bottle charts are NOT based on plant health. They are designed to get you to use the bottle ASAP so you'll buy and waste more than you need. Never ask a chart or another grower about feed rates, ask your plants. Start with 1/4-1/3 the bottles recommendation. Chart EC and pH daily in your journal. EC up, pH down is too rich. EC down, pH up is too lean. EC flat, pH flat looks good on paper but, no one pH reading allows absorption of all nutes; that requires a pH swing (5.5-6.0, some say 5.2-6.0). By keeping pH flat you guarantee unbalanced feeding leading to toxicity or deficiency.

I'm surprised at the fungus gnats. My first observation when switching from E&F to DWC was the complete lack of bugs. My guess would be the organic material in the pellets is more appealing than the rockwool that I use.

Most importantly, know my first DWC grow was actually my 3rd attempt. First two were experiments on the side. Killed the first one dead (electrical failure) 2nd turned out to be male (argh) But the third one, my first official one ...



Hang in there, you can do this.
Break a stem
FB

 

[crisscross]

FB thanks for chiming in. I took notice of jm420's suggestion that I look at your 'thunk diary' which brings up a question. In the following picture you have one root coming out of the net pot which is good. I understand that you germinate directly in rockwool and under lights immediately etc. I don't get the rockwool with hydroton combination.

https://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/35769IC_1:6:8_BettyRoot.jpg

When you have a seed germinating in rockwool do you put the cube immediately in hydroton with water in the bucket? If so, where do you set the level of the water in relation to the location of the cube? Is the cube submerged, barely touching the water or do you water by hand until your roots come out then add water to the bucket? I'm so confused with this particular step. I don't want to drown the seed by soaking the rockwool in my res. thanks in advance.

 

[rick shaw]

Ah where to start. Well,your trying to learn to drive with a six speed Ferrari.

If you remember anything from lurking,in most DWC or NFT articles or threads it's stated in the beginning,'DWC/NFT is for experienced hydro people'
Lurking/studying/practicing doesn't count as pro hours,if it did I'd be a porn star.

Start with a simple system. you'll be a baller by your third crop.

 

[FreezerBoy]

I don't get the rockwool with hydroton combination.

https://www.icmag.com/gallery/data/500/35769IC_1:6:8_BettyRoot.jpg

When you have a seed germinating in rockwool do you put the cube immediately in hydroton with water in the bucket? If so, where do you set the level of the water in relation to the location of the cube?

Rockwool is unnecessary, just a personal choice on my part. When new roots are buried in rockwool, I can't hurt them, they're buried. As for clones, I have never been able to clone with naked stems Rockwool is simply easier for me. MANY others disagree.



Above left are clones ready for transplant (the right one is past ready). Center are sprouts less than 24 hours old, again ready for transplant. The very second I feel there are roots, into the main tub they go.

As to water level (right) D'OH! Shame on me for leaving this out (bad me, bad). Hydroton does not wick. It adsorbs rather than absorb. It may bounce some water up but, it does not wick. An air gap at this time could dehydrate and kill the sprout in less time than a good nights sleep.

Rockwool does wick. Maintain direct contact between cube and water line until roots can easily exceed a 1" airgap. At this point drop the water line. Some maintain the 1" gap religiously. This is a good idea in the beginning. Once roots are more established, I let the gap drop as much as 6" or more between bi-weekly top offs.

The upper roots (in the hydroton and airgap) are air hogs, they merely need to be not dry. The occasional water drop and high RH in the tub provide all the moisture they need. (Transplant a sprout or clone too deeply, it will stall for a few weeks as it builds air breathing roots towards the surface. Some non mj plants are so air hungry, they build these roots above the ground)

Drowning is not a worry. In DWC, water is the O2 delivery system. The cube is transpiring water just like a plant. It draws water from below and evaporates it above requiring more water be absorbed below... Lather, rinse, repeat. Because our water supply is supercharged with fresh O2, odd as this sounds, submersion is what prevents drowning.

 

[crisscross]

Lurking/studying/practicing doesn't count as pro hours,if it did I'd be a porn star.

Funny stuff there. However I don't appreciate your forum. I am asking for help. It looks like 70 people glanced at this thread and left without leaving a comment. It was probably because they either didn't care...or they didn't have anything important to say (you). What I've seen/read is that bucket dwc is easy as pie and only requires checking ph constantly because the res is so small. What else makes it for 'experienced hydro people?' How do you get experienced? Am I supposed to just shit the bed on my first few tries getting experienced or actually be an intellectual and study my ass off trying to get as many facts straight before I even visit the store for the first time? just to recap, when someone asks for a glass of water, don't offer a sandwich.

Freezerboy my man. Thank you for clarifying and answering my question with your precise answer and with drawings. You are too cool for school.

Also FB, I forgot to touch on why the fungus gnats were an issue to begin with...I have veggies growing in my kitchen and I decided to germinate in the same area. Wife and I overwatered so gnats came into the picture so the jiffy pots got attacked. I didn't think fungus gnats were a problem until I researched them and discovered that they eat roots etc. At that point I already killed my seedling so I removed everything from my gardens and got rid of all the bugs. side note FB, you rule. I know you're moderator but you kick ass and have helped me a bunch already. thanks a lot.

 

[jm420]

Dont get ahead of yourself crisscross DWC is far from being easy as pie to a beginer there is a huge learning curve.When things go wrong they can go wrong real quick.Root rot ,res temps,air pumps shitting the bed ,leaks ,deficiancies etc.....Then theres the nute end to learn.ec.tds.ppm wichever you choose.
Like FB said his first 2 runs didnt come out as planned and I'll say the same.Peeps say hydro is for the lazy grower but for me thats not the case 4 18 gallon totes in a scrogg is a shitload of work
Be patient and take tips and tricks from experianced and respected growers and you'll do fine .More good reading your gonna need is Stiches guide to sick plants.Get familiar with the infirmary threads as well.Just about everyones been there at one time or another

peace JM

 

[crisscross]

After germinating in the rockwool I placed the cube in the hydroton about 1" submerged once I saw a root coming out of the bottom of the cube (4 days in).

I have been putting straight water for the last 5 days in the dwc bucket maintaining the ph twice a day keeping the levels between 5.1 and 6. The plant is on a cfl right now. I am using GH maxibloom, when can I start/should I start nutes? After the first res change? At 25% strength for week 1, then 50% week 2, then 80-100% week 3? Thanks for the advice.

 

[Phychotron]

At the beginning the summer I started my dwc experimentation. I had a rooted clone, in a 'root cube' but the roots were not long enough to reach the bottom of the 6" net pot. It was slowly crawling down the hydroton, and I figured if i top watered it it would be fine. i was a little late on a few of those waterings-- the tiny roots dried out and killed my clone, despite starting to reach the bottom with a couple roots.


Instead I built an aero cloner out of the bucket, and am just waiting for a time when I have a spare rooted clone to experiment on. I think it will only be a realistic possibility in the winter though, when i get a cold air intake on my 4x4 tent. Right now it's still too warm outside to play around with dwc, as the temps are in the mid-high 80's.

also the rooting medium (rockwool, rootcube, etc) shouldn't be wet, just the hydroton. something about stem rot if memory serves me. aero cloning eliminates the need.

I was using RO water in my bucket, but I noticed that when watering another plant in soil that it developed a Calcium deficiency. you'll probably want some cal/mag in there as well, unless your using tap water that's got a lot in it. It acts as a 'buffer' it should also stabilize the pH a bit.

unless someone is using your nutrients, no one can tell you how to use them. Learn to inspect your plant. Check your ppm's/ph daily and keep everything on a chart, maybe even a graph. You can do that automatically with a spreadsheet program (excel). Keep notes on your plants and eventually you'll be able to look back and even hopefully spot where problems develop. you'll find that memory will not serve you, as days and events start blurring across time.

are you doing beneficial microbes for your roots?

 

[FreezerBoy]

when can I start/should I start nutes?

Witholding food is a soil thing because soil IS food. Rockwool and Hydroton are not food, they are inert. Feed from the beginning at 1/4 the suggested rate. Chart EC and pH and adjust accordingly.

 

[crisscross]

phycotron: thanks for the words. The h2o being in contact with the rockwool is only during the first week until the water levels lower and the roots follow.

As for beneficial microbes...those look super expensive. Should I buy something for this, and if so what do you recommend?

Freezerboy: thanks again for commenting. I wish I could text you or call you for advice but somehow you always manage to find my thread. Thanks. I am adding maxibloom at 25% this afternoon.

Thanks all!

 

[Phychotron]

the stuff is expensive to buy, but not expensive to use. I started using advanced nutrients: piranha and tarantula, and just ordered some voodoo juice. they are only used in the first two weeks of flower.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lQLkFikahA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy5Fd1rLD0I

 

[geoponics13]

tag

 

[Maj.Cottonmouth]

Be careful, benies in hydro is a whole new complication. I run a dead res and recommend you do so at first also.

 

[crisscross]

benies may be cheap to use but expensive to buy up front. also, the guy at the hydro store said that they are difficult to use for a beginner and that benies can go bad/expre after a while.