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To the Pros - please help me with my growroom design! Sealed vs Vented

lush

New member
Hello,

Long time lurking around under another username. I’m finally planning a more serious op that I want to share and hopefully give something back to this community that I learned everything from…

I’m considering the design of the space. I have 2 bigger rooms (1 and 2) and a smaller room (3). 4 will not be used (it being a chill/trim space). The lights used will be 4-6 SpiderFarmer G8600 – each covering a 5x5. I would like to have 2 separate flower chambers in order to stagger the work and harvest, although this is not a necessity. I need a veg space too, of course.

I also need to make a decision on whether to 1. vent the rooms, 2. create sealed rooms, or 3. use tents and use the outside room as a lung room. Framing an actual room inside the room is not an option in this place.

On one hand, I’m not sure I want to go for a sealed room because I don’t have experience with such designs and I am somewhat constrained by my electricity bill – I don’t want it getting really high.

On the other, LEDs apparently require higher ambient temps and also emit less heat, so I’ll most likely have to add heat, more than having to remove it. Sealed / lower air exchange might actually cost less in my case. I might also buy some CMHs to combine with the LEDs for the winter months.

I have considered using only one of the bigger rooms for flower and making it a perpetual harvest, but the idea doesn’t appeal to me because I would like more granular control over the temps/RH throughout the flower cycle.

I am leaning towards the 3rd option – using tents and conditioning the air in the outer room to be perfect. I think this might be better than just using the rooms because I will not have to condition the air of the whole volume of the room but only the growspace/tent. Also the smell control should be easier, I think.

I should also mention that I live in a coastal city and there aren’t that huge differences between temps year-round. Average Jan temp is 36F, average Aug temp is 75F, outside RH is 65-80% for most of the year. That’s why I think I can use the outside air to my advantage and maybe employ the 2 times/minute air exchange @DunHav`nFun preaches as alternative to CO2 supplementation. Although I’m not opposed to using tanks either.

So, my current plan is:

- ACs and dehumidifiers in both rooms 1 and 2; humidifiers inside the tents in veg
- 10x10x7.5 flowering tent in one room
- 5x5 flowering tent and a veg tent in the other room
- Room 3 for drying/storage
- Passive outside air intake from room 4
- all tents exhaust straight to the outside; I keep the intake air perfect via the room appliances; I maintain 1-2/minute air exchange at all times

So, the questions:
- How does the plan sound?
- Is there a point using the tents at all? If decide to not use tents at all, is it going to be very wasteful if I combine active air exchange and also run an AC in the room?
- Should I vent the tents to the outside or seal the outside rooms and just exhaust into them, adding CO2 supplementation?

Thank you for everyone spending some time to help out!
 

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lush

New member
Anyone else got any advice? :)

I wonder if it's better to have constant high rate of air exchange for sufficient CO2 at all times, or use a fan controller to control temps/RH and add a bit of CO2 supplementation?
 

Mars Hydro Led

Grow on Earth Grow with Mars
Vendor
Anyone else got any advice? :)

I wonder if it's better to have constant high rate of air exchange for sufficient CO2 at all times, or use a fan controller to control temps/RH and add a bit of CO2 supplementation?
A lot depends on your lamp, if your lamp is relatively high wattage, then it will make higher demands on CO2. That is to say, if you add extra CO2, it must be matched with the appropriate light to be more likely to have an effect and provide additional nutrients to your plants. Therefore, how to control light and supplement CO2 will put forward higher requirements for growers. This article may give you some inspiration.

www.mars-hydro.com/info/post/a-guide-to-using-co2-to-increase-yield
 
Should I vent the tents to the outside or seal the outside rooms and just exhaust into them, adding CO2 supplementation?
i would vent outside and you can still grow large without adding CO... i'm really just guessing.
Oops i forgot to add...am not a Pro:alien:
 
If you use light that provides more than 600ppfd on average, you need co2 supplementation. If you dont do this, you arent matching cardinal parameters and will never see genetic potential.
Thanks i didn't know that.
i do find some areas on the canopy get more than 600 but it's unavoidable with a unbalance light setup i try not to go more than 700 or leaves start to look a bit over done.
 

Crooked8

Well-known member
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Thanks i didn't know that.
i do find some areas on the canopy get more than 600 but it's unavoidable with a unbalance light setup i try not to go more than 700 or leaves start to look a bit over done.
Gotta bring that ppfd up in due time. Cant just blast em at flip. Gotta be gentle. But you have to imagine your grow room and plants all like a motor that works together. You cant put a huge turbo(high powered light) on a stock motor. It will blow. You need to upgrade your internals, gaskets and manifolds to handle the pressure. Think of those things like irrigation, vpd, proper ec and co2. It all needs to balance out.
 
Gotta bring that ppfd up in due time. Cant just blast em at flip. Gotta be gentle
Every bodies grow and environment is different and i do understand enough now to grow in coco and when it comes to ppfd and led lights in small tents i don't need to add much more light in flower opposed to end of veg the colas will still grow large i still got some now from my previous grow i might put up a pic.
i know what you mean plants do like to grow in a pleasing steady exponential environment with out much to stress it...just like some peeps:beat-dead
 

Jedi genetics

Active member
Saying plants can’t take more than 6-700 ppfd is not true. Flowering without co2 you can run then up to 1000ppfd at the top of your canopy, co2 more like 13-1500.

Iv had plants reach to the lights and sit at 1500 without with no nanners or discolouration. Not saying that’s optimum but you should be able to run up to near 1000ppfd without problems depending on your girls. Couple this with steering and you will get the tightest nodal spacing you’ve ever seen with little stretch.

You also have to take in to account VPD and have all your other factors dialed in to take advantage of the light you putting over your girls. ( RH, temp, fertigation, nutrients )

General figures I veg at around 600ppfd
Flower at 1000 ppfd

These girls where grown in coco with no co2 at 1000ppfd, photos taken at 6.5 weeks 👍

Happy growing,

J.G
 

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Crooked8

Well-known member
Mentor
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Saying plants can’t take more than 6-700 ppfd is not true. Flowering without co2 you can run then up to 1000ppfd at the top of your canopy, co2 more like 13-1500.

Iv had plants reach to the lights and sit at 1500 without with no nanners or discolouration. Not saying that’s optimum but you should be able to run up to near 1000ppfd without problems depending on your girls. Couple this with steering and you will get the tightest nodal spacing you’ve ever seen with little stretch.

You also have to take in to account VPD and have all your other factors dialed in to take advantage of the light you putting over your girls. ( RH, temp, fertigation, nutrients )

General figures I veg at around 600ppfd
Flower at 1000 ppfd

These girls where grown in coco with no co2 at 1000ppfd, photos taken at 6.5 weeks 👍

Happy growing,

J.G
Thats not what i was saying. You can absolutely hit plants with high ppfd without co2 enrichment. You just wont ever see the yield/quality potential as if you had enriched with co2. Its just science, not saying you cant have high quality without it. I didnt run co2 for a long time. I didnt know my mistake.
 
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Jedi genetics

Active member
Thats not what i was saying. You can absolutely hit plants with high ppfd without co2 enrichment. You just wont ever see the yield/quality potential as if you had enriched with co2. Its just science, not saying you cant have high quality without it. I didnt run co2 for a long time. I didnt know my mistake.
Agreed on the yield absolutely, I like to use the analogy of fitness, you need a good diet like you need a good nutrient balance for plant and body. And You need to balance your lifestyle like balancing your room parameters for your plants by dialling in your environment.

Light and co2 you could say are the largest components for growth. Light is like training on the body, and co2 is like steroids. You can build a killer physique naturally with all points above in check, just like you can have a dialled room without co2 pulling 1gpw and over. But when you add some juice you pack the weight. I can do 1/1.2 a watt optimally without co2 but have pals doing almost 2gpw with co2.

As for quality I’d argue, but I know better 😉

Cheers

J.G
 
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Rocket Soul

Well-known member
Agreed on the yield absolutely, I like to use the analogy of fitness, you need a good diet like you need a good nutrient balance for plant and body. And You need to balance your lifestyle like balancing your room parameters for your plants by dialling in your environment.

Light and co2 you could say are the largest components for growth. Light is like training on the body, and co2 is like steroids. You can build a killer physique naturally with all points above in check, just like you can have a dialled room without co2 pulling 1gpw and over. But when you add some juice you pack the weight. I can do 1/1.2 a watt optimally without co2 but have pals doing almost 2gpw with co2.

As for quality I’d argue, but I know better 😉

Cheers

J.G
One thing to note about CO2 is that it tends to close the stomata (when there is plenty of co2 available to the plant it wont open the stomata to breath as much).

This can lead to your vpd calculations getting messed up, youd have to push for a more transpiry vpd when adding co2 to the equation.
 

Crooked8

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So are you guys saying ppfd over 700 is 100% useless if CO2 is <500?
This is information i learned in Bruce Bugbees course. If you have a higher ppfd than 600, you are truly wasting energy if you arent supplementing co2. You arent necessarily hurting anything other than your pocket but yeah, its silly to use high ppfd lighting with only ambient co2. Your photosynthetic rate will not increase without it.
 
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Rocket Soul

Well-known member
So are you guys saying ppfd over 700 is 100% useless if CO2 is <500?
From what ive seen there isnt really a cut off. But the harder you push your plants the more shit you need to keep under tight parameters, nutes, environment, spectrum...
 

Jedi genetics

Active member
So are you guys saying ppfd over 700 is 100% useless if CO2 is <500?
Another factor that comes into it is canopy, on top of what’s already mentioned. If iv got a 10x10 canopy and am growing multiple strains, or plants from seed your not always going to get your canopy uniform across the whole space, led’s penetration is not as heavy as hps so if I’m giving my girls maximum 700ppfd at the tops because I’m worried about wasting a bit of electric instead of hitting them with there maximum up at 1000. I may only be getting 500 or below two feet down from the tops, if I’m hitting them with 1000ppfd at the top two feet down I’m still in the high range for ppfd. Couple this with defoliation and proper plant management and you can get full buds from the tops to where you lollypop with no “ dropofff “ in quality or weight.. but as always find what works for your girls in particular and experiment! That’s half the fun in all this.. cause it definitely isn’t in the trimming! 😂👍

These girls went ape shit this run and got huge, top colas sitting at a whopping 1300ppfd 5 inches from the light and praying hard, no discolouration, nanners, not ideal.. but my ppfd is still at 700 almost 3 feet down the canopy! Last run with these girls was 1.1gpw per tray with no co2 , photo at 2weeks 6days
View attachment A108AAE5-25CE-4B0A-A489-EEFE88648817.jpeg

J.G
 
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