To defoliate during 12/12 or not?

[budman678]

i have a small tent (3x3x6). what is the opinion (backed with empirical data) in regards to defoliating during 12/12?

i think that they benefit from increased light penetration but i know that some say it is taking away their power. do they need the big fans leaves are are they something i can get rid of to provide more light and better airflow?

thanks in advance

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

... this just in from the Empire Institute of Data...


... it depends... check the search...

 

[Bhodi_22]

Empirical data or common sense?

Empirical data or common sense?

do they need the big fans leaves are are they something i can get rid of to provide more light and better airflow?

thanks in advance

dude those big fan leaves are there in order to use the light to make food for the buds

if you think you are removing those leave to provide more light then I ask what the heck are you making this light for??? the big fans are there to harness the light. if you are patient and wait and watch you will likely see the the big fan leaves die off slowly and naturally on their own as they are replaced by the smaller bud feeder leaves.

when the fans die off on their own the plant can pull what it needs out of them as they go...if you cut them off when green you are not only stealing all the water and nutrients stored in the leaves you are also removing the plants primary "power sources"

however if your like me and learn your lessons the hard way - and to generate the "empirical data" your after you could remove the fans from some of the plants and see for your self...the girls with untouched fans will undoubtedly finish sooner and better - in my humble opinion - I may not be an expert but I'm also no novice (over 10 years experience I'll just never share a photo or explicit detail until my MMAR comes through...knock on wood)

 

[Hammerhead]

Removing some of these large fan leaves will not harm anything. They lose many leaves in nature. Since we are growing indoors some pruning may be required. I take a few her and there and tuck the rest in to expose the bud sites.

 

[budman678]

oops...we will see..this is my first time. they got a good haircut but i will leave them alone now

 

[High Country]

This could open the proverbial can of worms again, very controversial.

DEFOLIATION HI-YIELD TECHNIQUE
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=174163&highlight=defoliation+high+yield

 

[Bhodi_22]

to each their own

to each their own

theres definitely all kinds of techniques out there and some folks do some pretty crazy things to serve a purpose, what ever works for you...

many years ago when I first had a light a friend gave me this little self published type book "ancient marihuana techniques" since then I've read some grow guru or another dismiss all of them as crazy but its not to say it didn't work for generations in the regions they came from...

your pruning reminds me of one technique/strain combo where the fan leaves were pinched repeatedly until all leaves were not only real small but some weird thing happened making all this red chlorophyll take over turning the leaves red..."panama red maybe"?

another insane practice in some hash making harvests was to ram a wooden stake through the base of the stalk to stress the shit out of the lady 24 hours before harvest to allegedly increase resin production -- I'll admit I even did this with tooth picks before my very first harvest..

 

[VerdantGreen]

first grow? keep it simple and leave your plants alone to grow.

how would you even know if defol helped or not? you have no frame of reference.

its a controversial method that not even the experts can agree on.

all i can tell you is that i get huge yields with no defol.

 

[Hammerhead]

I would not call what im talking about defoliation. I take maybe 6 at the most if there are some that are blocking bud sites I tuck those under. If I was growing outdoors I probably would still prune leaves that are dieing or have problems. I do this with all my plants not just cannabis.

 

[VerdantGreen]

yeah, if they're in the way, removing a few big fans as they get older isnt a problem if you cant tuck them out of the way. just do it a couple at a time as needed.
i do that too but i try and keep leaf removal to a minimum. a leaf is both a food store and a solar panel - take it away and you lose both.

 

[High Country]

yeah, if they're in the way, removing a few big fans as they get older isnt a problem if you cant tuck them out of the way. just do it a couple at a time as needed.
i do that too but i try and keep leaf removal to a minimum. a leaf is both a food store and a solar panel - take it away and you lose both.

I agree, I'm not a fan of this defoliation technique.

The leafs are there for a reason, photosynthesis.

 

[yesum]

Guess you already did the deed but.... I remove any blocking budsites and leave the rest. If you take them during stretch, you can slow the growth. I think think the 'leaves are food sources' does not apply to indoor, heavily nuted plants.

For sure, if the bud does not get good light, it will not develop well. If the area is too thick with vegetation, airflow is another reason to trim. I have only removed leaves on this grow that were hitting the many lights I have and were burning anyways.

 

[Grønn]

Get your other factors dialled in - know the strain your working with intimately - don't change any other factor ----> then you can defol half the plants for a run, and badabing you'll have your evidence to make your own educated opinion.

There is no other way to do it and be sure - knowledge is gained not given away.

And if your wondering - halogen lamps don't work to grow plants, and that is my educated opinion.

 

[zymos]

I think think the 'leaves are food sources' does not apply to indoor, heavily nuted plants.

It applies to ALL green plants.
The main food source of any plant is carbohydrates produced by photosynthesis in the leaves, and all the NPK in the world can't grow your plant without those.

 

[budman678]

thanks guys...i did a good defol on 2 out of 3. i am going to leave them alone for the most part from here on out.

i agree that experience brings knowledge...just figured i would ask away...have a good one folks

 

[Bhodi_22]

it never hurts to ask!! thats how we learn.

Too each their own I guess but this notion that bud sites need direct light to develop is in my humble opinion false, although it took me a while to accept it.

Recently a friend gave me an example on this very subject: in a recent crop he grew one row of plants in a circle around a vertical 1000w hps. He was quite busy during the cycle and never made the time to rotate the plants even once - so the same side of the plant faced the bulb the whole time, and it was not in a tent or anything with close walls to bounce the light right back either.

As harvest time approached he was rather amazed that the buds on the dark side of the plant were identical to those on the side that got the light. As many have said "the leaves make the food"

 

[John Deere]

Not my thing but I will thin it out a bit for better air circulation if it gets too dense. I had some bud rot a few years ago and never want to go through that again.

 

[budman678]

thanks guys...also, what is a good source of organic nitrogen? one of my girls has like light green going on throughout and it is either light bleached of a slight N def.

 

[meddy]

I remove the very bottom 3 sets..and in the branches close to the main stem...2-3 more sets..depending on strain

 

[yesum]

It applies to ALL green plants.
The main food source of any plant is carbohydrates produced by photosynthesis in the leaves, and all the NPK in the world can't grow your plant without those.

I should have said food reserves or something. I meant that there is no need of a lot of fan leaves to hold nutrients, not that leaves are not necessary in growth. I notice new leaves growing around the buds after fan leaves are clipped anyways.

In the wild those fans may hold nutrients, as the soil may not have enough. I have more than enough nutes in my grows, excepting lockouts, which can happen.