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The Wire creator David Simon eviscerates the dystopia creating war on drugs

Weird

3rd-Eye Jedi
Veteran
David Simon surged into the American mainstream with a bleak vision of the devastation wrought by drugs on his home town of Baltimore – The Wire, hailed by many as the greatest television drama of all time. But what keeps him there is his apocalyptic and unrelenting heresy over the failed “war on drugs”, the multibillion-dollar worldwide crusade launched by President Richard Nixon in 1971.
When Simon brought that heresy to London last week – to take part in a debate hosted by the Observer – he was inevitably asked about what reformers celebrate as recent “successes” – votes in Colorado and Washington to legalise marijuana.
“I’m against it,” Simon told his stunned audience at the Royal Institution on Thursday night. “The last thing I want to do is rationalise the easiest, the most benign end of this. The whole concept needs to be changed, the debate reframed.
“I want the thing to fall as one complete edifice. If they manage to let a few white middle-class people off the hook, that’s very dangerous. If they can find a way for white kids in middle-class suburbia to get high without them going to jail,” he continued, “and getting them to think that what they do is a million miles away from black kids taking crack, that is what politicians would do.”
If marijuana were exempted from the war on drugs, he insisted, “it’d be another 10 or 40 years of assigning people of colour to this dystopia.”
Simon joined two film directors for a discussion onstage: Eugene Jarecki, in whose movie The House I Live In – on the toll of America’s war on drugs – he features prominently, and Rachel Seifert, whose Cocaine Unwrapped charts the drug’s progress from blighted “producer” countries to the addicts in Europe and the US.
The occasion was staged by the Observer and chaired by its editor, John Mulholland, as part of its campaign to address the global drugs crisis.
Simon took no prisoners. In his vision, the war on – and the curse of – drugs are inseparable from what he called, in his book, The Death of Working Class America, the de-industrialisation and ravaging of cities that were once the engine-rooms and, in Baltimore’s case, the seaboard of an industrial superpower.
The war is about the disposal of what Simon called, in his most unforgiving but cogent term, “excess Americans”: once a labour force, but no longer of use to capitalism. He went so far as to call the war on drugs “a holocaust in slow motion”.
Simon said he “begins with the assumption that drugs are bad”, but also that the war on drugs has “always proceeded along racial lines”, since the banning of opium.
It is waged “not against dangerous substances but against the poor, the excess Americans,” he said, and with striking and subversive originality, posited the crisis in stark economic terms: “We do not need 10-12% of our population; they’ve been abandoned. They don’t have barbed wire around them, but they might as well.”
As a result, “drugs are the only industry left in places such as Baltimore and east St Louis” – an industry that employs “children, old people, people who’ve been shooting drugs for 20 years, it doesn’t matter. It’s the only factory that’s still open. The doors are open.”
While his co-panellists sipped their water, Simon poured himself another glass of red wine as he continued. A bull of a man, a presence in any room – even one as large as the packed theatre in the colonnaded heart of Britain’s scientific establishment.
“Capitalism,” Simon said, “has tried to jail its way out of the problem” with the result that “the prison industry has been given over to capitalism. If we need to get rid of these people, we might as well make some money out of getting rid of them.”
Jarecki, in a scathing portrayal of the American prison system in both his film and at Thursday’s event, cited some statistics: “We have ravaged our poor communities,” he said, some of which, African-American, counted “4,000 per 100,000 in jail, as compared with an average dose of around 300″. Meanwhile, Simon said the police in some cities had “become an army of occupation that sends brothers and fathers to jail”.
He described a logic to policing in Baltimore whereby “street-rips” in drug-infested areas make for easy arrests to achieve “cost-efficient” policing, while criminal activity other than drugs was ignored because prosecutions were laborious.
Simon said he had seen a decrease in arrests for non-drug offences from 70-90% to 20-40%, while drug-related arrests increased on some beats from 5,000 to 30,000 because, as Jarecki put it, “it’s like shooting fish in a barrel”.
“So the drug war,” concluded Simon, “makes the city unsafe.” But has it worked? “The drugs in my city are more powerful, cheaper and more available than ever before,” replied Simon.
Simon said he had “no faith in our political leadership to ever address the problem. There is no incentive to walk away from law and order as a political currency.” He said change would come, if it does, from jurors simply “refusing to send husbands, sons and fathers from their communities to jail … That is how prohibition [of alcohol] ended. They couldn’t find 12 Americans who would send a 13th to jail for selling bathtub gin.”
Simon regarded “legalisation” of drugs as “a word invented by advocates of the drug war to make the other side look goofy, saying ‘everything should be legalised’. The issue is: how do we get out of here? And I say: decriminalisation. As with other controlled substances – taxed and regulated.” He later said he did not think change would come of any moral decision, but because “someone just figures out: this is costing too much money”.
From the audience, the Colombian ambassador to London, Mauricio Rodríguez, drew attention to his government’s leadership of initiatives from Latin America to “completely redraw” a global strategy on drugs, with co-responsibility assumed by consuming countries, focusing on social and economic issues, and money laundering by banks. “Basta!” he said, “the Latin American countries have had enough.” Such thinking had driven a recent report, which Rodríguez brandished, by the Organisation of American States, of which, he pointed out, the US is a member.
Simon replied that America had fought “proxy wars” across the world for decades, and the war on drugs in Latin America was among them. On the carnage in neighbouring Mexico, he said: “If 40,000 Mexicans are dead, we don’t give a damn as long as it stays that side of the border – turn northern Mexico into an abattoir, so long as it doesn’t get to Tucson. If we can fight to the last Mexican, for a suburban American to send their kid safely to junior high school, we will.”
 

noytered

New member
David Simon surged into the American mainstream with a bleak vision of the devastation wrought by drugs on his home town of Baltimore – The Wire, hailed by many as the greatest television drama of all time. But what keeps him there is his apocalyptic and unrelenting heresy over the failed “war on drugs”, the multibillion-dollar worldwide crusade launched by President Richard Nixon in 1971.
When Simon brought that heresy to London last week – to take part in a debate hosted by the Observer – he was inevitably asked about what reformers celebrate as recent “successes” – votes in Colorado and Washington to legalise marijuana.
“I’m against it,” Simon told his stunned audience at the Royal Institution on Thursday night. “The last thing I want to do is rationalise the easiest, the most benign end of this. The whole concept needs to be changed, the debate reframed.
“I want the thing to fall as one complete edifice. If they manage to let a few white middle-class people off the hook, that’s very dangerous. If they can find a way for white kids in middle-class suburbia to get high without them going to jail,” he continued, “and getting them to think that what they do is a million miles away from black kids taking crack, that is what politicians would do.”
If marijuana were exempted from the war on drugs, he insisted, “it’d be another 10 or 40 years of assigning people of colour to this dystopia.”
Simon joined two film directors for a discussion onstage: Eugene Jarecki, in whose movie The House I Live In – on the toll of America’s war on drugs – he features prominently, and Rachel Seifert, whose Cocaine Unwrapped charts the drug’s progress from blighted “producer” countries to the addicts in Europe and the US.
The occasion was staged by the Observer and chaired by its editor, John Mulholland, as part of its campaign to address the global drugs crisis.
Simon took no prisoners. In his vision, the war on – and the curse of – drugs are inseparable from what he called, in his book, The Death of Working Class America, the de-industrialisation and ravaging of cities that were once the engine-rooms and, in Baltimore’s case, the seaboard of an industrial superpower.
The war is about the disposal of what Simon called, in his most unforgiving but cogent term, “excess Americans”: once a labour force, but no longer of use to capitalism. He went so far as to call the war on drugs “a holocaust in slow motion”.
Simon said he “begins with the assumption that drugs are bad”, but also that the war on drugs has “always proceeded along racial lines”, since the banning of opium.
It is waged “not against dangerous substances but against the poor, the excess Americans,” he said, and with striking and subversive originality, posited the crisis in stark economic terms: “We do not need 10-12% of our population; they’ve been abandoned. They don’t have barbed wire around them, but they might as well.”
As a result, “drugs are the only industry left in places such as Baltimore and east St Louis” – an industry that employs “children, old people, people who’ve been shooting drugs for 20 years, it doesn’t matter. It’s the only factory that’s still open. The doors are open.”
While his co-panellists sipped their water, Simon poured himself another glass of red wine as he continued. A bull of a man, a presence in any room – even one as large as the packed theatre in the colonnaded heart of Britain’s scientific establishment.
“Capitalism,” Simon said, “has tried to jail its way out of the problem” with the result that “the prison industry has been given over to capitalism. If we need to get rid of these people, we might as well make some money out of getting rid of them.”
Jarecki, in a scathing portrayal of the American prison system in both his film and at Thursday’s event, cited some statistics: “We have ravaged our poor communities,” he said, some of which, African-American, counted “4,000 per 100,000 in jail, as compared with an average dose of around 300″. Meanwhile, Simon said the police in some cities had “become an army of occupation that sends brothers and fathers to jail”.
He described a logic to policing in Baltimore whereby “street-rips” in drug-infested areas make for easy arrests to achieve “cost-efficient” policing, while criminal activity other than drugs was ignored because prosecutions were laborious.
Simon said he had seen a decrease in arrests for non-drug offences from 70-90% to 20-40%, while drug-related arrests increased on some beats from 5,000 to 30,000 because, as Jarecki put it, “it’s like shooting fish in a barrel”.
“So the drug war,” concluded Simon, “makes the city unsafe.” But has it worked? “The drugs in my city are more powerful, cheaper and more available than ever before,” replied Simon.
Simon said he had “no faith in our political leadership to ever address the problem. There is no incentive to walk away from law and order as a political currency.” He said change would come, if it does, from jurors simply “refusing to send husbands, sons and fathers from their communities to jail … That is how prohibition [of alcohol] ended. They couldn’t find 12 Americans who would send a 13th to jail for selling bathtub gin.”
Simon regarded “legalisation” of drugs as “a word invented by advocates of the drug war to make the other side look goofy, saying ‘everything should be legalised’. The issue is: how do we get out of here? And I say: decriminalisation. As with other controlled substances – taxed and regulated.” He later said he did not think change would come of any moral decision, but because “someone just figures out: this is costing too much money”.
From the audience, the Colombian ambassador to London, Mauricio Rodríguez, drew attention to his government’s leadership of initiatives from Latin America to “completely redraw” a global strategy on drugs, with co-responsibility assumed by consuming countries, focusing on social and economic issues, and money laundering by banks. “Basta!” he said, “the Latin American countries have had enough.” Such thinking had driven a recent report, which Rodríguez brandished, by the Organisation of American States, of which, he pointed out, the US is a member.
Simon replied that America had fought “proxy wars” across the world for decades, and the war on drugs in Latin America was among them. On the carnage in neighbouring Mexico, he said: “If 40,000 Mexicans are dead, we don’t give a damn as long as it stays that side of the border – turn northern Mexico into an abattoir, so long as it doesn’t get to Tucson. If we can fight to the last Mexican, for a suburban American to send their kid safely to junior high school, we will.”

USE SOME SPACES / PARAGRAPH THINGIES @_@
 

CosmicGiggle

Well-known member
Moderator
Veteran
Well David Simon has his viewpoint and he's welcome to it!

...... but the problem goes much deeper than 'drugs' and whether or not they are decriminalized.

Baltimore is MY CITY, I grew up here, lived here all of my life and I'm OLD!

..... so I've been around a long time, gotten around a lot and seen it all first hand, up close and personal - always lived on the edge of one ghetto or another!:D

In fact, if you've seen The Wire or Homicide (the series that preceded it) you've seen my lil formstone house (pot factory!) many times!:laughing:

I've also seen the problems develop and evolve.

...... all of the problems 'caused' by drugs or the war on drugs were there long before illegal drugs arrived on the scene and became available and accessible to the average ghetto dweller.

The original drugs (coping methods) of choice and abuse were alcohol and tobacco, heroin and MJ were always there but in the background.

David Simon presents this idea that one group of powerful individuals (the Government and Capitalism) is taking advantage of another weaker group (poor people):

"The war is about the disposal of what Simon called, in his most unforgiving but cogent term, “excess Americans”: once a labour force, but no longer of use to capitalism. He went so far as to call the war on drugs “a holocaust in slow motion”.
Simon said he “begins with the assumption that drugs are bad”, but also that the war on drugs has “always proceeded along racial lines”, since the banning of opium.
It is waged “not against dangerous substances but against the poor, the excess Americans,” he said, and with striking and subversive originality, posited the crisis in stark economic terms: “We do not need 10-12% of our population; they’ve been abandoned. They don’t have barbed wire around them, but they might as well.”

OK, so let's see some of the things our caring but imperfect government has done for Baltimore over the years to address the problems:

1) Granted full civil rights to all citizens and inforced/protected those rights.

2) Erected hugh Public Housing highrises (Projects) for the poor people and tore down the dilapidated brick ghetto's.

3) Created Welfare and back-to-work programs.

4) Dispensed free birth control and educational info.

4) Created and paid for easily available educational (College) opportunities and Work/Study jobs for entry level experience.

5) Established treatment centers and methadone clinics and all kinds of help programs to raise peeps up from poverty.

6) Tore down the drug/crime infested public housing highrise projects 30 yrs. after they had been rendered uninhabitable by the tenants.

7) Built new, smaller townhouse public housing communities dispersed throughout the city.

So what about this 10 - 12% of the supposedly 'abandoned' excess population, where did they come from and why are they here?

Who's responsible????

I say there's always going to be 10 - 12% of any population that isn't going to make it for a variety of inborn emotional reasons, invisible barbed wire they've unconsciously chosen to imprison themselves in a comfy, familiar pile of excrement.

They are the ones that chose not to leave the bad circumstances.

..... one way they do this is by choosing not to practice (free!) birth control and passively letting things happen repeatedly while choosing to look the other way.

..... another way is to say that there aren't any jobs available when clearly there are or that the [insert rival ethnic group here] have taken them all.

..... or repeatedly doing something stupid and repeatedly getting caught. :smoky::cry:

They are the leftovers, the ones that didn't make it, can't make it or won't make it. :dunno:
 

Chong

Active member
The wire

hands down this is the best TV series i have ever seen
the thing is its kinda a benchmark for all other series and since i watched it none of the others get close to the wire.

Does somebody have a suggestion to something that is remotely as good as this?

P.S: Sorry for being off topic

peace
 

BudToaster

Well-known member
Veteran
The wire

hands down this is the best TV series i have ever seen
the thing is its kinda a benchmark for all other series and since i watched it none of the others get close to the wire.

Does somebody have a suggestion to something that is remotely as good as this?

P.S: Sorry for being off topic

peace


i recommend Fringe. i started watching on Netflix a week ago and now i'm in the middle of a Fringe Binge. btw i was a potted plant on the fifth season of The Wire. it was incredible to watch the crew create that last season of episodes. i still laugh to think about being there.
 

dagnabit

Game Bred
Veteran
OK, so let's see some of the things our caring but imperfect government has done for Baltimore over the years to address the problems:


2) Erected hugh Public Housing highrises (Projects) for the poor people and tore down the dilapidated brick ghetto's.



6) Tore down the drug/crime infested public housing highrise projects 30 yrs. after they had been rendered uninhabitable by the tenants.
:thinking: :crazy:
 

quitelost

Active member
...... all of the problems 'caused' by drugs or the war on drugs were there long before illegal drugs arrived on the scene and became available and accessible to the average ghetto dweller.

If you are arguing that poor black comunities are the same now in the post-crack, zero-tolerance, prison culture era you are quite lost. I don't disagree that the problem is deeper than drugs but that seems to be the point Mr. Simon wants to get across.

The original drugs (coping methods) of choice and abuse were alcohol and tobacco, heroin and MJ were always there but in the background.

Untill the dru-g war, it's not the drugs but the war waged in poor communities that is the problem, people take drugs, animals take drugs.

David Simon presents this idea that one group of powerful individuals (the Government and Capitalism) is taking advantage of another weaker group (poor people):

"The war is about the disposal of what Simon called, in his most unforgiving but cogent term, “excess Americans”: once a labour force, but no longer of use to capitalism. He went so far as to call the war on drugs “a holocaust in slow motion”.
Simon said he “begins with the assumption that drugs are bad”, but also that the war on drugs has “always proceeded along racial lines”, since the banning of opium.
It is waged “not against dangerous substances but against the poor, the excess Americans,” he said, and with striking and subversive originality, posited the crisis in stark economic terms: “We do not need 10-12% of our population; they’ve been abandoned. They don’t have barbed wire around them, but they might as well.”

OK, so let's see some of the things our caring but imperfect government has done for Baltimore over the years to address the problems:

1) Granted full civil rights to all citizens and inforced/protected those rights.
Segragation in american schools is more widespread than before brown vs. board of education ruling. You think you can opress people for hundreds of years and then give them "rights" and everything is ok? What about the institutionalized racism that still exists? Are the normalized illigal stop and searches of minorities are an exaple of proteccion of civil rights? What the disproposionate unjustified police killings of minorities and widespread police brutality? Problems that were a central part of Martin Luther King's I have a dream speach that still havent changed.

2) Erected hugh Public Housing highrises (Projects) for the poor people and tore down the dilapidated brick ghetto's.

Erected a ghetto within a ghetto phisically isolated from the rest of the city, what in city planning is known as a urban barrier, these large complexes, like parks work as dividers of neighborhoods.

3) Created Welfare and back-to-work programs.
Which are much weaker than many nothern european countries that have better quality of life. The us public heath system is a joke.

4) Dispensed free birth control and educational info.
Educational info LOL, do you actually know people who went to school in the ghetto? It makes sense for the poor to have many children because it's a form of insurance for when your older, the children can take care of you, this is common throughout the world and history.

4) Created and paid for easily available educational (College) opportunities and Work/Study jobs for entry level experience.
People I know went to work/study programs and now can't find work, they seem to be a way for the government to transfer funds to privite institutions that give people quick sub-par education and pocket the access. In my opinion these funds would be better off invested in the public system, like the funds for charter schools which is a similar issue. Most american colleges cost more than most european universities.

5) Established treatment centers and methadone clinics and all kinds of help programs to raise peeps up from poverty.
Drug treatment and methodone clinics help fight poverty? What about recognising that the problem wont go away? What about the systemic marginalization that leads people to this? Drug addicts with means seem to be accepted by socity.

6) Tore down the drug/crime infested public housing highrise projects 30 yrs. after they had been rendered uninhabitable by the tenants.

7) Built new, smaller townhouse public housing communities dispersed throughout the city.
Created a ghetto within a ghetto and when this didn't work dispersed these poor people to places outside the community where they had grownup. I don't know where you live but in a city not far from you the contracts for most public housing project between the government and the private developers are running out and the city has no clear plan about what to do with all these poor when they don't come close to paying a market rent due tho the effects of gentrifacation.

So what about this 10 - 12% of the supposedly 'abandoned' excess population, where did they come from and why are they here?

Who's responsible????

I say there's always going to be 10 - 12% of any population that isn't going to make it for a variety of inborn emotional reasons, invisible barbed wire they've unconsciously chosen to imprison themselves in a comfy, familiar pile of excrement.

They are the ones that chose not to leave the bad circumstances.

..... one way they do this is by choosing not to practice (free!) birth control and passively letting things happen repeatedly while choosing to look the other way.

..... another way is to say that there aren't any jobs available when clearly there are or that the [insert rival ethnic group here] have taken them all.

People should accept low pay and bad working conditions because illigals or people in guest worker programs with less rights are willing to do so?

..... or repeatedly doing something stupid and repeatedly getting caught. :smoky::cry:

Every heard of stop and frisk? The argument is that because black people "commit more crime" that it gives resonable suspiscion for police to harrass blacks disproportionaly even though this is not effecive and racist.

They are the leftovers, the ones that didn't make it, can't make it or won't make it. :dunno:
The society that we live in is designed to leave people behind, if you really think everyone can "make it" when in these ghettos real unemployment is over 40-50%, public education is pathetic, the process of gentrification(basically the revesal of white flight) makes the rent rise dispropotionally, costs of living rise while pay for average americans is stagnent etc.. your delusional.
 

LayedBack

Member
I kind of like some of what he's saying (not all of it, he's a bit naive about the way the system works and how things can change) but the problem is if we did it his way NOTHING would get done. Fuck all that I'd rather see cannabis legalized NOW instead of trying to get it all done and most likely failing or society taking 100-200 years to finally legalize drugs and help shit out.

Other than that, it's hard to imagine their being a society without dirt poor people and ghettos at the very bottom. Humanity, government and society is dysfunctional and as fucked up as it might be their will always be a food chain. Though perhaps we could work a little harder to help the poor people out in certain ways.

Oh and The Wire is one awesome fucking TV series. Thanks for that at least.
 

Weird

3rd-Eye Jedi
Veteran
The war is about the disposal of what Simon called, in his most unforgiving but cogent term, “excess Americans”: once a labour force, but no longer of use to capitalism. He went so far as to call the war on drugs “a holocaust in slow motion”.

I think its a little deeper than this

chemical slavery is a tool of modern marketing (big tobacco, big pharma, herion/coke cartels, processed food industry, etc so forth) and hte victims in the war are as human as you and me

the fact is the united states and big industrialists learned the economic value of war and continue to build the war machine for private companies like haliburton (many presidents make bank off of this one) and privately owned prisons

it is simple economic and ethnic cleansing

were would many people here be if there were no weed or the liberty to smoke it regardless?
 

CosmicGiggle

Well-known member
Moderator
Veteran
I think its a little deeper than this

.....

Chemical slavery - big tobacco, big pharma, herion/coke cartels - these groups are benefiting from the slavery but they're not present
in the ghetto's delivering the goodies to the slaves as that chore is taken care of by members of their own culture making bank on their own people.

Economic value of war - war always has an economic value, that's the whole idea!;)

At one time, a small group could capture another small group and sell them as slaves or use them to build pyramids or kill them off and steal their assets, etc.

Simple economic and ethnic cleansing - that may be a result but its not the purpose -like I said, its not the Government or BigPharma supplying the dealers on the corner.:tiphat:
 

Weird

3rd-Eye Jedi
Veteran
that is why i said it is deeper as its part of human nature to capitalize at the expense of others, a lower part of our human nature and one we need not embrace but part of it none the less

it has grown in magnitude and scale that even institutions are built upon the premise

i personally refuse to capitalize on anyone in any predatory manner, i cant control the world but i control me

the paradigm of exploiting others needs to end because there is an undertow, an negative effect on humanity that needs to be removed if we wish to evolve
 

CosmicGiggle

Well-known member
Moderator
Veteran
the paradigm of exploiting others needs to end because there is an undertow, an negative effect on humanity that needs to be removed if we wish to evolve

...... well it will end, eventually.

you see, what's gonna happen is that most of the Human race on earth will burn out.

just like bacteria in a test tube, we'll keep on reproducing, consume all of the resources available and excrete enough toxins in our closed system environment to kill of the majority of us.

... and then, those that are left will start all over again!:ying:
 

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