The price of genetics and current marketing techniques.

[meowmeowmeow]

Meow all,

***Let me start by saying this is not a bash thread or call any breeder out.***
Mods move me or freeze me if I've overlooked a similar topic.
I've read through many threads here and seen this come up in conversation many times.
With my own experiences I have paid on average $10-12 a seed from intl & domestic outlets.
I've read discussions on disagreements on verbiage a la (Elite....etc).
I can dig fundraisers and shit like that, but not a drop being $20-25 a piece.
I'm not asking for clone only shit either just to be clear.
I stink you'd want to get paid (well deserved in most cases), but at what lose potentially?
Also considering the gray area the state of cannabis industry is in right now in many places on earth.
Pictures are always nice, but doubt can be cast still until one sees said strain brought to fruition.
I'm not asking for name drops and mud dragging...just some clarity on the market I guess along with everybody's

 

[FireIn.TheSky]

I don't quite get what your asking or saying.

I think what you see in the cannabis industry is a variety of sale models.

The one you seem to be questioning is the extreme high dollar seed.

I think the explanation for this is breeders take the scarcity +demand = price method.

For what ever reason they produce very small quantities of seed, they hype the hell out of them and then they charge out the ass if you want to buy them. With this method they sell way less seed but reap the maximum amount.

Yes not everybody will buy them but that's not the goal they get the reputation going, the hype continues and there is always another line of consumers ready the buy the latest hyped up seed.

I myself don't go for this, the best seed I have bought was under 100 a pack, or even really cheap or free.

People put value on all sorts of things, high dollar seed is no different then paying like 10 grand for a star wars action figure. To you and I it's a worthless lump of plastic but to someone else it's the end all be all.

 

[corky1968]

Here's something to think about.

In the early 90's, I worked off and on delivering furniture with a friend when his partner
called in sick. It was easy money as I was just the passenger and some days we only
drove around taking our time during deliveries.

Anyways, back to marketing. The employer had this old sofa that didn't look great and
had a price of $400 on it and couldn't sell it. So one day he came up with a crazy idea
of putting a $800 price tag and placing it at the store's entrance to see what would
happen. Guess what it sold in a few days.

People assumed that the lower price meant it was garbage and initially avoided it.
With being at the front center of the store with a much higher price people thought
is was amazing. I bet you discount lower price items and look at higher priced items
when you shop as well. It's all in your head.

 

[Amynamous]

I agree that seed prices are often ridiculous. Especially since there's absolutely no correlation between price and quality. A breeder/grower can start with 2 Amazing parents, and some of the offspring could still produce garbage plants. This is especially true with hybrids.

At this point in the game, I am very happy chucking my own pollen, and have been very lucky with my results.

 

[stoned-trout]

people will pay and until they start refusing to pay outrageous prices it will keep happening...yeehaw...the more hype you can get the fatter your wallet will get as a breeder/pollen chucker

 

[Phaeton]

In January of this year I began buying 25 seeds per month, usually 5 each of several varieties.
Of the 12 varieties planted so far 2 are slated for production, 4 are on the 'do not buy' list and the others are OK and will be occasional specialty plants. Low yield but highly tasty plants fit in small areas and make nice good will gifts.

Price of an individual seeds does not come up as a factor, not even a small consideration. Finding the strains that grow well in my already established garden is the goal.
15 years of cloning left me very familiar with a very few plants and a bud room dialed in for the current clone.
Finding the correct seeds to efficiently use the garden cost almost a thousand dollars in seeds. The worst plant yielded 7.3 grams, the largest so far is 172 grams. A slow growing "The Purps" was vegged 93 days and at two weeks from harvest looks to yield 300 grams or more.
An Auto Euforia yielded 147 grams in 91 days under 996 watts 18/6 from the day the seedling broke soil.

So if the seed costs $10 or $35 each does not matter, even the highest priced seed is the lowest priced item required for growing marijuana.
A steady supply of fresh seeds with an exact fit for size, timing, and light is worth a lot to me. I am a gardener, not a breeder.

Trial and error with products from those who are breeders. Not all are created equal.

 

[packerfan79]

Yeah there are some greed in the seed game, but we forget that you only need 1 keeper to have the genetics permenantly.I know people who pay thousands of dollars per year for clones. I would rather spend 77 bucks for some bodhi goodness, or 80 bucks for some bog. Even karma is pretty reasonable. if you wait for Xmas or 420 deals you can get some great deals. I got 5 different strains on a 420 special for less than 100 dollars

 

[meowmeowmeow]

Meow people.....

Meow people.....

Meow........

I like the way this is going and truly appreciate everyone's 2 cents for sure.

FireIn.TheSky I'm a confusing person, so you are correct.
I just throw out the cherry bombs and wait for others to light them.
This can go in many directions, but I see and hope it continues as just a good, social, respectful and most def educational conversation.
corky1968 nice analogy.
Amynamous WORD
stoned-trout
packerfan79 Well aware of the drops and bonuses offered. I've had a few.

It's really all hairy at the moment with the current 'states of legality' with all this shit to me.
Price can be an issue with me, but I guess I'm wondering the measuring stick....usually lab tests, descriptions of taste, smell, growth rate ....etc.
Please trust me if there's a bean I want I will pay for it and have.

We're just shooting the bull here

 

[meowmeowmeow]

Also I could give a fuck about FREEBIES ..... I'm not bought or sold on that.
I've showed love via email when its happened to the outlets.
Also I'm sitting on a shot ton of beans like I'm sure others are too, so I'm not hurting.

 

[who dat is]

Also I could give a fuck about FREEBIES ..... I'm not bought or sold on that.
I've showed love via email when its happened to the outlets.
Also I'm sitting on a shot ton of beans like I'm sure others are too, so I'm not hurting.

It sounds like you've never cashed in on BOGO deals my friend. Don't sleep on those I hear yah though on the overpriced beans. Most I have ever payed for a pack is 150 but that is only once. Most of the times you can expect to pay around 100 or less than that. Anything more than that is fueled by a hype train or it legitimately hard to come by.

 

[Baron Greenback]

Some prices do beggar belief, I'm sure the likes of Aficianado are great genetics but the prices are eye watering. Some of these "breeders" are possibly getting upwards of thousands of (whatever your local currency is) per plant.
How much better can those possibly be than seeds from say Ace or CBG? My main issue is the poly hybrid pollen chuckers who breed" from a tiny stock and release untested seeds at a huge price. Less than no interest in anything that comes from hermie bag seed thanks

 

[bigbadbiddy]

I said it elsewhere but I doubt anyone's genetics are worth more than 5 bucks a seed and at that point they are really stretching it imho.

Why would you pay north of 5 bucks a seed when you can get seeds like Mr. Nice for a buck a seed? Or Ace for under 5 a seed? Or Peakseeds for under 3 bucks a seed?

Those were my 3 go-tos.
I spent about 5 bucks a seed for Karma genetics because I wanted to see what is up with the OG and Chem hype in the US. There was nothing available cheaper that seemed solid so I coughed the money up but I am talking end of the line here, no way I would pay even more for a seed than that.


My opinion is just that be it Gage Green (who seem to have an impeccable reputation for their genetics) or TGA (who does not have that reputation) or whoever:
If your beans cost more than 5 bucks per seed, how much better could your beans/genetics possibly be to justify that increase in price over previously mentioned breeders and their much lower prices???

I have yet to meet someone who would tell me "dude, Gage Green seeds are totally worth to pay double of what you would pay for Mr. Nice or Ace seeds!"...


Through the "grey nature" of the seed business, the market just wasn't able to find an equilibrium yet.
Once legalisation goes forward, I predict that prices will get closer to each other until an equilibrium is found.
I also predict that seed vendors like the tude et al will vanish as they are no longer necessary.
Already today, you will get a much better deal and usually "fresher" seeds if you buy from the breeders directly. Unfortunately that is not always possible at the time, as some don't sell directly (Karma for example).

 

[VonBudí]

 

[Amynamous]

Just my opinion, but: A person could do well, just selling seeds. As my needs are minimal, I grow very, very small plants, usually just 8-12 inched in height. I use small containers, to keep them small. When I do a seed run, I usually average at least 100 seeds per plant. If I sold the seeds for 2 dollars each, thats $200! Thats more than I could ever sell the bud for. A professional could easily produce 500 to 1000 seeds per plant, sell them for 10 to 15 bucks each, and make a very nice living. They certainly could make more from the seeds than from the bud that the plant produces.

And, it's not like a person is just going to throw the bud away, just because it had seeds in it. In all of my years of growing and breeding, I have not noticed any real difference in quality between my seeded bud and sensi. A professional grower might not sell exseeded bud in it's budded form, but I'm sure they turn it into hash or edibles, etc.

Nice work if you can get it.

 

[bigbadbiddy]

The difference with "real breeders" is that the thing becomes infinitely more complex and costly when "done right".

The space you have to dedicate to seed production, backups of backups etc. alone makes any actual breeding a noteworthy undertaking. The logistics, the brain juice you have to squeeze into it, the data you have to collect, analyze and evaluate....

It's a lot of work and most "breeders" won't do it because most growers are neither educated nor informed enough to notice any difference.

So why bother? As long as the status quo is what it is, there is no need to do "real breeding"...
Once the market finds an equilibrium and there are more sources of reliable and less sources of conflicting and mis- information, we will likely see "real breeders" becoming the norm and all the fancy blinders becoming less and less of a factor.

Until then, it is what it is fam...

 

[OG Tree Grower]

I have no problem paying 100 for 10 stable seeds, someone put at least a years worth of work into those.

What pisses me off is when you buy 10 seeds and after all that time and work, none of the phenos look even close to what you bought.

 

[bigbadbiddy]

Which is the case way too often, isn't it?

To that I would add:
I for one (and I know many others) don't want the super inbred lines where there is close to no phenotypic variety when growing out the beans.

The possibility of finding that special outstanding plant goes hand in hand with the possibility of finding some less than spectacular ones.
So I have no problem with having some variety in phenotypes, matter of fact I would want that.

But the range of variety has to be somewhat "honed in". It can't be that you need 100 beans to find a plant that looks even remotely like the pictures and has the characteristics of the strain descriptions.
And if you pay 10 per bean, then a ten pack should at least include one plant that comes close to the strain description/pics.

But if the "breeder" is selling untested F2 beans then it becomes a complete crapshoot... You basically enter "random randomness land" and that can be had for less than a buck per bean.

I read a report over at the MNS forum where a guy popped a 10pack of Walkabout, which is the MN "mix strains" bag. These cost less than a buck a bean. Matter of fact you will often get it for less than 50 cents a bean.
And the dude found several good plants in the 10 pack, one of which had a better Blueberry smell and flavor than any Blueberry variety he ever had.
Go figure ...

 

[Happy Rooster]

Gage Green wanting $ 250 a pack for seeds and others wanting more is plain crazy to me.

 

[vapeorbong]

supply and demand ....its plain ole' dankonomics

but yeah, shit is getting way to expensive

 

[vapeorbong]

I have no problem paying 100 for 10 stable seeds, someone put at least a years worth of work into those.

What pisses me off is when you buy 10 seeds and after all that time and work, none of the phenos look even close to what you bought.

also many people dont understand what they are buying when expecting certain results...and that extraordinarily good keepers are rare finds

example: F1,F2,S1, Open pollination*, etc

just saying there is a certain amount of undue hate sometimes - not saying you, - just saying a lot of noobs dont understand what they buy