The Organic Think Tank

[xmobotx]

ORGANICS AND HYDROPONICS IS NOT AN OKYMORON

i acquiesce and retract - i even have an OBBT running right now w/ box amendments and ewc

good points all RNDZL

speaking of morons though - if anyone really believes that any chem grow is superior to organic soil (here's your sign?)

sustainability baby

 

[TexasToker]

lol...@ "here's your sign". Wife and I say that often, especially when driving.

 

[smokinjay]

with my soil mix I only need to add guano and black strap molasses, no other nutes needed.

 

[40AmpstoFreedom]

EDIT: I started off replying to this thread not knowing if it was directed at strictly organic hydro or organics period as I did not see it was in the organic hydro forum and misread thinking it was in organics forum. I replied as if it were organics period. I grow in soil and will most likely never change as the ease of it incredible in comparison.

So, if this reply is worthless as a result disregard it.

So, in light of that, why should a grower go organic? If the same yield and quality are produced, why take the longer road? Let's face it, if we are being honest, proper organic gardening is more intensive than non-. Where are the benefits?

My top reasons for organic over hydro:

1. All 100% organic as pretty much everything but my first two grows have been:

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=153287

2. Simply adding water only every 2-3 days and getting bomb ass bud. It's a no brainer and the simplest form of growing a plant.

3. Grow any plant right. Grow hundreds of seed plants at a time even all different strains with none having any nutrient problems, period. Remember, there is a reason most master breeders use organics

4. No flooded house or apartment.

5. High forgiveness for mistakes. Hydro = your fuck up your whole grow is dead in possibly in 2 hours. Organic = perfect every time.

6. No pH meter needed.

7. No technical equipment necessary.

8. Pots = way cheaper than a hydro system and last for years.

9. No equipment malfunctions.

10. My buds do taste better than the majority of hydro grown buds but this in my opinion is due to the fact that hydro it is 100x easier to add excessive nutes and not because the nutrients are 'better'. More of a user error thing.

11. There are multiple set-in-stone 100% guaranteed to work every time on every plant soil formulas to follow in order to not make ANY mistakes on ANY plant. Don't believe me? Check out all of my grows....This is something that does not exist in hydro.

12. Save MAD $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. No, hydro set up and all that entails maintenance etc etc.

13. No billion different kinds of nutrients needed because they can't seem to master the effectiveness of soil in delivering every single nutrient required at optimum levels. That or its simply marketing pick your poison....or rather don't heh.

14. Flexibility. All around winner in this category. No longer are you confined to the dimensions of your hydro system in order to grow.

15. Where are you hiding your hydro system...and what with hah?

I'm stoned, and a tad tipsy, so I can't remember which mod said it (Gr3atful maybe?), but they said "Organics - The Rube Goldberg machine of indoor gardening"

For those of you who don't know, a Rube Goldberg machine takes a simple act, and makes it as complicated as possible.

As a dirty chem grower, this statement seems dead on to me. Organics is like learning Chinese - Hard to learn, harder to master, and pretty much pointless.

Couldn't be more wrong.

How could adding just plain tap water to a medium be complicated? It is the complete simplification of growing weed. I have no idea what could possibly be hard about organics. I started off with chemical fertilizers that leave you with no idea which deficiency you have much less what is in excess that could be causing a deficiency. Talk about confusing what the fuck...lol. Not to mention growing in a hydro system you have to stick few genetics because they all require different amount of nutrients leaving you thinking "what the fuck is going on in my hydro system after popping a single pack of seeds with different phenos that all require different nutes some look great while others are terrible." That is why in hydro you call it dialing it in, which is a term rarely used in the organics realm because in organics it is already dialed in from the start.

I switched to organic growing and never turned back. Mix the soil and add water and you got bomb weed. 0 deficiences, 0 over nute, 0 plant problems.

Add water how confusing is that? Don't even need a damn ph meter.

Hydro = o shit 2 hours later after feeding, my entire grow is dead. Organics = 10 days later oh I may have added a little to much N this time no big deal...

 

[toohighmf]

this argument will go on forever. perhaps vegan hydro is the way to go to appease everyone. I agree organics can be better flushed in a substrate than soil, but using guano is toxic to breathe the dust, and is even worse for you if you light it ablaze and incinerate it. then there are the heavy metals. I HAVE learned quite a bit about organics in this thread, and I hope you understand my reasons for not liking them all the same. I am certainly no organic genius, or claim to be. I think I have a pretty decent overall grasp on "chem" hydro, and have a lot to learn about bio-hydro. loving the idea of sea salts and chem ferts. I do use vermicrop, and mollases, but nothing else organic except humics, and kelp based products. I'm sorry we all don't see eye to eye.

 

[Lazyman]

40A, what is hydro about your system? This is an organic hydro forum and thread, for people feeding hydro systems with organic nutes. Yours is organic to be sure, but nothing hydro about it. No reservoirs or liquid nutes.

Organic may be easier, and in some cases cheaper than salts, but again, does an easier regimen grow better weed? Does it outyield salts? If the answers are no, then there is room for debate and more room for salt-based growers to explore the upper limitations of a strain, vs organic growers trying to find the lowest-maintenance way to grow acceptable yields.

I know everyone doesn't care about yield as much as us commercial growers, but I care about it enough for 4 people, lol.

Whatever doesn't increase the grows efficiency and yield is quickly axed from my room. I've never gotten bigger yields with organic bottled nutes in hydro, and that is a finding I see replicated over and over on this site.

Organics may be old and time-tested, but so were horse-drawn carts and hand sewing at one time. Let's use todays modern technology and tools to make BETTER products, instead of finding ways to cling to the past.

 

[xmobotx]

Organics may be old and time-tested, but so were horse-drawn carts and hand sewing at one time. Let's use todays modern technology and tools to make BETTER products, instead of finding ways to cling to the past.

if it weren't for commercial interests, i think we might find the old and time tested to be better - of course, when someone has something to sell the bottom line becomes even more important than the people involved -and casualties of the situation FTM

 

[40AmpstoFreedom]

40A, what is hydro about your system? This is an organic hydro forum and thread, for people feeding hydro systems with organic nutes. Yours is organic to be sure, but nothing hydro about it. No reservoirs or liquid nutes.

Title of the thread and opening paragraph to my post explain why I posted...guess you missed that bit heh :friends: Nothing in his post said hydro-organic only or even mentioned hydro-organic. Simply organic. So, I typed an answer in an effort to contribute to the thread positively and by the time I was done I noticed that the thread was in organic hydro....and not organics. Didn't really want to delete it if ya know what I mean lol!

You can find this thread on the new posts section without even navigating forums so this is how mistakes happen...especially after reading the original post posing a question with no mention of hydro-organic...just organic.

Up to OP if it is organic-hydro discussion only or organics /shrug

 

[baet]

Organics may be old and time-tested, but so were horse-drawn carts and hand sewing at one time. Let's use todays modern technology and tools to make BETTER products, instead of finding ways to cling to the past.

horse-drawn carts are man made :/ , the complex system of an organic soil food web is one of nature's finest accomplishments that has proven it self since the beginning of time, man can't touch that. it's not a product, it's a plant.


old and time tested... it's the way this planet operates, it's the reason why a forest grew and flourished before man "created" and "conquered" the wilderness with his salt and conventional farming.

 

[Lazyman]

I disagree that mother nature knows best.

After all, do plants with 1000PPM of atmospheric CO2 not grow faster than those with 300PPM? Mother nature cannot do that, but I sure can.

Just because its natural does not make it better. Rhubarb leaves and nightshade are some of the most poisonous substances in the world, and I am not smoking them either!

Salt-based ferts and GMO seeds are necessary to feed the earth's burgeoning population. The earth only has enough arable land to feed 4 billion people if every farm were organic. Since we're already at 6 billion, which 2 billion people should starve to death?

Organics are not the future of farming, they are a gladly forgotten past. Anything mother nature can do I can do better!

 

[B.C.]

Jus curious, do you work for Monsanto? lol... J/K BC

 

[Lazyman]

LOL no, but without Monsanto sadly lots of people would go hungry and/or couldn't afford food. They have become a necessary evil as they produce such a large percentage of the worlds food supply.

 

[bromhexine]

we all know that chemical an unnatural methods will beat natural ways but the question is if it is safer for our bodies and if the quality of taste smell and high is the same. we cant difinitively know for certain if its safe for several more years of testing while organic has been tested since the beginning of time. i'll stick with organics and non gmo but we all can make our own choices

 

[toohighmf]

that is the question indeed. this argument will never end. both oppositions are to hard headed.

 

[xmobotx]

ummm, lazyman,

all of your rationale is exactly the kind of tainted misinformation evil comglomerates like monsanto distribute to get people "bought in" as to the efficacy/necessity of their product

only enough arable land? that basically means that neither chem nor organic could ever produce enough

you're saying what? hydro is necessary to feed the populace of the earth? what does the hydro facility get built on? arable land?

anyone w/ half a brain knows there is more than enough arable land to feed the populace of the world - i drive by acres and acres of wasted land taking any given trip in any given direction

it's been that way everywhere i lived (PNW)

you clearly are a ballswinger of some sort

LOL

 

[toohighmf]

The motives of growing indoors is not to simulate outdoors, but to manipulate it.

 

[Lazyman]

ummm, lazyman,

all of your rationale is exactly the kind of tainted misinformation evil comglomerates like monsanto distribute to get people "bought in" as to the efficacy/necessity of their product

only enough arable land? that basically means that neither chem nor organic could ever produce enough

No, it means organic farming methods cannot produce enough, as they yield fewer tons per acre of food.

you're saying what? hydro is necessary to feed the populace of the earth? what does the hydro facility get built on? arable land?

No, but chemical fertilizers are. Hydroponic systems yield more per acre than other systems, so in areas where the growing season is short, or too cold, or what have you, hydroponic indoor gardening can increase the amount of land we can use for food production.

anyone w/ half a brain knows there is more than enough arable land to feed the populace of the world - i drive by acres and acres of wasted land taking any given trip in any given direction

Wow, that is some BAD anecdotal evidence. Ever heard of Norman Borlaug?

• From his 1970 Nobel Lecture

• "I now say that the world has the technology – either available or well advanced in the research pipeline – to feed on a sustainable basis a population of 10 billion people. The more pertinent question today is whether farmers and ranchers will be permitted to use this new technology? While the affluent nations can certainly afford to adopt ultra low-risk positions, and pay more for food produced by the so-called “organic” methods, the one billion chronically undernourished people of the low income, food-deficit nations cannot."
  • 30th Anniversary Lecture, The Norwegian Nobel Institute, Oslo, September 8, 2000

• "Producing food for 6.2 billion people, adding a population of 80 million more a year, is not simple. We better develop an ever improved science and technology, including the new biotechnology, to produce the food that's needed for the world today." In response to the fraction of the world population that could be fed if current farmland was convered to organic-only crops: "We are 6.6 billion people now. We can only feed 4 billion. I don't see 2 billion volunteers to disappear." In response to extreme critics: "These are utopian people that live on Cloud 9 and come into the third world and cause all kinds of confusion and negative impacts on the developing countries."

it's been that way everywhere i lived (PNW)

you clearly are a ballswinger of some sort

LOL

Sigh. Just because you see land doesn't mean it's suitable for farming. The soil can be bad, there can be a lack of water, or growing the crops that would survive there don't make economic sense. What you see is in no way a clear picture of worldwide land availability.

 

[xmobotx]

oh, thanks for setting me straight

i apologize

 

[bromhexine]

hehe. hey atleast he apologized. maybe land can be improved or maybe people will learn how to grow their own produce like they do in alot of 3rd world countries its really not that hard or time consuming to grow alot of the vegetables although fruits may take a bit longer. the thing is why risk your health on chemically grown stuff if you have the option to pay a bit more and feel secure and safe. why is it that the fruits and vegetables grown in america taste far wose than those grown in smaller poorer countries?

 

[Lazyman]

It's all good guys, just trying to keep the conversation civil and fact-based.

According to the Nobel prize winning genius (credited with saving a BILLION lives worldwide with his food research and food genetics) organic farming produces less than modern farming methods, strains and nutrients.

If that's the case then I see little need to pursue organics for indoor grows.

For outdoor, I would probably mix up truckloads of compost, EWC and other organic nutes to simplify the feeding of a large outdoor crop. That is, if I lacked the ability to use reservoirs of hydro nutes.