The meaning of Christmas

[f-e]

I 100% believe it's related to the turning of the seasons. There is nothing else so many people share, and that we know full well is 100% the most important thing to ancient people. The big issue is the shortest day on the 22nd. We might see that as some sort of equinox, and can find lots of stones stacked up globally to show that date. However, until the 23rd you wouldn't really know for sure that longer days are coming. So.. it's the 23rd and you decide to party on a big scale. Only, you don't actually know until sunset. So the 24th is the earliest you can get everyone together. However... this is prehistoric shit. Noboby has a Volvo. We gotta walk. We have to give a day to traveling. The 24th has gone, finding the place. What place? well, we inherently feel safe in circles. Like a barrier. Witches like to stand within stars we say, but we protect ourselves in circles. The nights met at a round table and there would be no fighting. Our party is likely to bring us all together within a shared circle. Like stone henge. Finding it though... there would have to be a big fire to guide people. Smoke going up, seen from miles around. Like following a star. We may be on the road 2 nights, and nobody will let us in their home. Though we may get to stop in a stable. If we have a gift.

It seems to fit the human condition.

On another note, invaders burn your book, smash your idols and change your stories. Who wouldn't invade and quite fancy keeping the big winter party though. It's probably why the act remains but the story has changed.


Well... There is no way I'm feeding this animal until spring. Time to eat it now I can plan ahead. Feast away peeps.




P.S I have been trying to figure this out, from nothing, for years. Because I know it's not a religious holiday and that way of thinking excludes so many people I feel a little depressed about it. We should do our best to find a truth that can be shared. Not one that throttles it.

Any thoughts?

 

[Max Headroom]

Sol Invictus!
the unconquerable sun rises again!

to me it's so obvious that Jesus is just a symbol for the sun/sunlight.
people tend to take everything so literally... no no, he was really a man who actually lived! LOL

 

[Switcher56]

 

[pop_rocks]

great thoughts f-e; there is a lot to be said about the pagan/ pre religious times and how those rituals were incorporated in modern religion

sol invictus indeed max, life revolves around the solar cycles and its ability to nurture life

today it seems to be a time to come together and embrace those closest to you, but this covid thing is kind of turning that sideways as well

no matter how you spend the holidays, this is a time to reflect and appreciate the good life we all live!
merry chritmas

 

[f-e]

Ancient man may of congregated on hills to watch for that first longer day. It would tell us how long till the spring crop of rizla, so we could ration properly. Harvest Festival 2.0 where we admitted having an extra pack down the sofa for Ron.

 

[f-e]

The winter feast of excess.

That's what it is. We know as farmers that the weather controls which of our fields will do better and which crops within them. Even if we dislike our neighbours we have to trade. We trade at harvest time to widen our inventory. Setting ourselves up for winter.

The clues surrounding Christmas are the longer days, the meat feast and the giving. Along with it's acceptance by invaders and the church.

On the evening of the 23rd we know the longer days have returned. It is only then we can look at our herd and weigh up how many we need for breeding, how many are food and how many are spare or simply can't be fed on the remaining grain. The weather will now provide cold storage after 28 day cures. We can make plans to get us through. Animals are going to be slaughtered.
At the same time, the people who's crops didn't do so well that year have little and you may have lots. Another year it could be the other way around. The excess on one farm needs gifting to another. It's that exchange of gifts that keeps communities alive. Which no invasion force would want to put a stop to. You could do that on the 24th if you wanted to just swap things over the garden wall. Chances are your community has been doing that for weeks anyway. Your going to be traveling to other communities. Sharing the wealth over vast distances with people you may never see again. There will be winter markets on the 25th where people with trade and with nothing visit. Boxing day, the day after Christmas, is when we are meant to unbox our gifts. Not Christmas day. This ties in with the procession of events perfectly, as it's when the traders would return to the village from distant markets they wouldn't normally have time to visit. It's the kings with the gifts and the stable stopovers.


I think I have it pinned. The obvious behaviour of our ancestors and it's adoption carrying the clues. The most recent addition to the UK story is Turkey. A bird from the America's has become the traditional meat we don't eat at any other time. A global take on the idea of people bringing things back from foreign markets.


The Church would hate it, but this could be a short documentary. The whole play of getting through winter 5000 years ago.

 

[tobedetermined]

Fwiw Christians might have co-opted the date from Zoroaster (aka Zarathustra) circa 551 BCE. His death is observed on Dec 26.

 

[Guest]

Seems to me difficult for the average Cave Man to determine whether the days are increasing/decreasing. But someone in the Clan may have used the simple method of noting where the mid day shadows reach (one does not need a sundial for this).

Maybe someone marked where the shadows reached to last year? And it may be the stars indicate time in a less accurate way. (Indeed there is this western myth that three men followed a star at this time of year.)
No need to go into ancient history for the ways we did things then. We still do the same things now!

 

[f-e]

The Christian religion is very new. We have monuments that indicate the winter solstice that predate it. Interestingly Stonehenge is thousands of years older. There, on the winter solstice, the sun lights both the alter and slaughter stones. I literally just looked that up so to find physical proof of my guesswork is really supporting the obvious nature of man. That's more proof than Christianity has ever had of anything.

This won't go back as far as cavemen as they were hunter/gatherers. It was much later in the stone age that we started to farm. It's only dependent animals that we would be chopping up. Knowing how long the meat needed to last us and while there was still some meat on them.

 

[tobedetermined]

Well, if you really want to go back then you have to include Göbekli Tepe. 10,000 – 8,000 BCE - which significantly predates Stonehenge. Or Boncuklu Tarla which is 1000 years older again. But from what I have read about them, they had no connection to the solstices. It was animal worship from the carvings on the stele that they have uncovered so far. Geographically this is in the area where cultivation started but they have not found any permanent settlements that match the timeframe so the assumption is that we were still hunting & gathering.