The Haze discussion thread

[HAZENACIOUS]

It’ll be interesting to see what this plant is does ...also I deafly will be able to enjoy her products because I can extract the whole thing if necessary and enjoy it that way...

If she is the only sample female you have of that line, you could try running a clone of her with a good solid male, most likely she won't herm in the presence of the male, and quite often the seed from a cross of this type of hermi will be fine, you just need to be on the lookout for hermies, but still easy to find a solid non hermi female most likely. This way you can at least preserve the line and search for those desirous traits in her progeny.


Note: If she still hermies in the presence of a male all bets are off.

 

[HAZENACIOUS]

I’m not giving up on her

That's good news, sometimes seedlings show a couple herms and when you run them as clones, they never show herms again. She's a beauty.

 

[Elmer Bud]

That's good news, sometimes seedlings show a couple herms and when you run them as clones, they never show herms again. She's a beauty.

I had the same scenario with a Critical Haze .
Seed plant threw nanners , grew clones , never saw intersex on those cuttings again .

Best advice don`t breed with it and definitely don`t reverse it .

 

[star crash]

That's good news, sometimes seedlings show a couple herms and when you run them as clones, they never show herms again. She's a beauty.

I had the same scenario with a Critical Haze .
Seed plant threw nanners , grew clones , never saw intersex on those cuttings again .

Best advice don`t breed with it and definitely don`t reverse it .

I just want to grow her out...Then do another run with clones because also I’m liking the way this place is looking

 

[purpleplayer007]

to me a pure sativa high should be euphoric . the better long flowerering strains have a similar buzzing feeling in the head. ususlly not as potent hit for hit as an indica but will get you high as you can get if you keep smoking. indicas to me you can always smoke yourself sober

 

[@hempy]

Hi Hempy,
Yes I agree that is true to a certain extent. But I also feel that you can get mutations and results with crossing to indicas and Indica Doms that cannot be achieved with sativas.
I am also resistant to the idea that sativas are going to produce exclusively up highs, Indicas produce down highs, and hybrids are producing muddy up highs that just can't compete with pure sativas.
As a gross generalization the above may be generally true, but taken as an axiom I can say that the above statement is absolutely false.
The strongest longest lasting most up least crashy highs I have ever experienced have been found in the sativa dominant 5hz hybrids, hands down, and I have been smoking pure african sativas in Africa for years. Generalities don't really apply to my breeding program because my search is for the exceptions.

With that said, I will say that I place the most hope and credence in my search within Nevils final work which is mostly sativa, as well as the more wild crosses coming from the seedstock I collected myself in Africa.



My breeding program utilizes primarily my 5hz hybrids, After completing a lengthy inbreeding and preservation program for my haze and Heirloom stock ,I have been outcrossing to 3 primary groups:
1)Other hazes


2)African Bagseed I collected myself in Africa.(Sativa)


3)Top modern commercial clone only cultivars, namely high THC cuts.(Primarily Indica Dominant [Including Diesal])


I Believe that hybridization is the driving force behind evolution, we can take advantage of this force when breeding typologically and use it to our advantage.

Sativa Dominant 5hz hybrids:

Hi HAZENACIOUS well a Sativa highs can have and element of stone to them also one only has to look at a Colombian for that but they are very different to that of say a NL or a afghani in there affect.

You wont get a high like a haze or a Thai in any indica but hybridizing them can give you a plant that looks more like an afghani but smokes more like a Thai.

The work Nevil did with haze produced some of if not the best to come out of Holland IMO but i have smoked many strains that were as good that were not from Holland or a hybrid.

I spoke to Nevil about the pros and cons of using indicas in breeding with Haze and Sativas.

Once you add indica and you then inbreed that line the indica becomes more and more dominant that is a fact and with that you loos more and more of the Haze or sat.


That is why Nevil went in search of the best sativas he could find to cross to Nevil's haze but also to create a unrelated Haze type line.

 

[HAZENACIOUS]

I had the same scenario with a Critical Haze .
Seed plant threw nanners , grew clones , never saw intersex on those cuttings again .

Best advice don`t breed with it and definitely don`t reverse it .

I agree about reversing, ordinarily I would say don't breed with it, but if your only example of an heirloom strain is hermy and you really like it? Those are exceptional circumstances. You may want to take a crack at it. I've never been in that situation luckily.

 

[@hempy]

I had the same scenario with a Critical Haze .
Seed plant threw nanners , grew clones , never saw intersex on those cuttings again .

Best advice don`t breed with it and definitely don`t reverse it .

If a plant shows a few balls towards the end of flower it could be because of stress but if a plant shows balls in early flower in a room with different strains that are free of them then id cull it.

 

[MoeFunk]

Nanners could easily be stress induced. Balls are a clear sign you have intersex traits in the genetics.

 

[HAZENACIOUS]

Hi HAZENACIOUS well a Sativa highs can have and element of stone to them also one only has to look at a Colombian for that but they are very different to that of say a NL or a afghani in there affect.

You wont get a high like a haze or a Thai in any indica but hybridizing them can give you a plant that looks more like an afghani but smokes more like a Thai.

The work Nevil did with haze produced some of if not the best to come out of Holland IMO but i have smoked many strains that were as good that were not from Holland or a hybrid.

I spoke to Nevil about the pros and cons of using indicas in breeding with Haze and Sativas.

Once you add indica and you then inbreed that line the indica becomes more and more dominant that is a fact and with that you loos more and more of the Haze or sat.


That is why Nevil went in search of the best sativas he could find to cross to Nevil's haze but also to create a unrelated Haze type line.

Hi Hempy,
Yes I basically agree, but I also think that the hybridization to NL5 added something, like any great hybrid that collectively was greater than the sum of it's parts. That whatever magic it was in those F1s seems to inevitably lessen in later generations, as indica genes seem to take over. I totally agree with you on this generally, but I have also found that with 5hz if you select for strains that are primarily sativa, you get plants that become more sativa from generation to generation, starting from the f1s, however even so these plants as well seem to lack the same potent fire of that F1. So the problem is not so much exclusively of reverting to Indica type, although that is part of it, it seems to me that it is more than that.


Its also true the strongest plants I've ever tried hands down, whether knockout stony or soaring ecstacy meth type high, have all been Sativas, and sativa doms.

 

[RoyalFlush]

If a plant shows a few balls towards the end of flower it could be because of stress but if a plant shows balls in early flower in a room with different strains that are free of them then id cull it.

OJD has a great thread on his IC section about early herms, maybe he could chip in with his experience on them.

 

[star crash]

Clone

Clone

I ran the Mako Haze from Kiwi Seeds back in 2005 2006 posted pictures of her earlier in this thread if she didn’t get 14 hours of dark she got nasty but if I gave her the right light she wanted she flower beautifully...She meaning the Current super silver haze has been flowering out in a room probably not suited for a haze hybrid but I can correct that as soon as I’m done with the grow of Mac

 

[@hempy]

Hi Hempy,
Yes I basically agree, but I also think that the hybridization to NL5 added something, like any great hybrid that collectively was greater than the sum of it's parts. That whatever magic it was in those F1s seems to inevitably lessen in later generations, as indica genes seem to take over. I totally agree with you on this generally, but I have also found that if you select for strains that are primarily sativa, you get plants that become more sativa from generation to generation, starting from the f1s, however even so these plants as well seem to lack the same potent fire of that F1. So the problem is not so much exclusively of reverting to Indica type, although that is part of it, it seems to me that it is more than that.

Hi mate hybridizing haze to an unrelated line is what Sam has said to do even Nevil was told that and later found that to be true.Inbreeding haze was not the path forward and why Nevil went on the path he did.

I brought up the problem of inbreeding haze hybrids to indicas with Nevil and he told me he saw the same and once you added indica it would in time dominate if inbreed.

That is why he said haze needed to be out crossed to a pure sativa like a Thai. Would the Haze become watered down in that Cross if inbreed i dont know but the Thai and Haze affect are similar.

I have made F2s of the Haze hybrids i loved my self as back ups can i find good plants in the F2s yes but it takes a lot more effort and selection than it did with the F1s.

Nevil's haze has 25% NL Nevil out crossed it to a few different sativas the results were outstanding.

 

[@hempy]

OJD has a great thread on his IC section about early herms, maybe he could chip in with his experience on them.

Not read it mate sounds interesting i think the key to trying to fix that would be in the male.

 

[purpleplayer007]

what is the overall on Aces hazes and crosses?

 

[HAZENACIOUS]

Hi mate hybridizing haze to an unrelated line is what Sam has said to do even Nevil was told that and later found that to be true.Inbreeding haze was not the path forward and why Nevil went on the path he did.

I brought up the problem of inbreeding haze hybrids to indicas with Nevil and he told me he saw the same and once you added indica it would in time dominate if inbreed.

That is why he said haze needed to be out crossed to a pure sativa like a Thai. Would the Haze become watered down in that Cross if inbreed i dont know but the Thai and Haze affect are similar.

I have made F2s of the Haze hybrids i loved my self as back ups can i find good plants in the F2s yes but it takes a lot more effort and selection than it did with the F1s.

Nevil's haze has 25% NL Nevil out crossed it to a few different sativas the results were outstanding.

Yes, I have seen this. Luckily my current strains of 5hz are only a couple generations removed from my original, having had only 1 generation in the last 27 years, but I also found that I have had great luck crossing to legitimate diverse outcrossed hazes like Ghosttrain haze #1, for example, though high was not improved, which showed hybrid vigor when crossed to my hazes and of course more importantly the Grail Haze, which hopefully may be solving the inbreeding problem of hazes, as Kangas MM inbreeds very solidly, Nevil told me that was also an important factor in his selection of said stock to pair to his NH for the Grail.

 

[TheDarkStorm]

So in essence wat you guys are saying is if for example I add a quality lumbo sativa to haze like others have done....an then I take it to f2, an then f3 I will find beter haze plants than the parent haze...or that my return of good plants will be better than the straight f1 haze..... been done by many no improvements were made.....which should be expected...you can get good plants but...coming further out from the base plants that give haze its power will not improve it.....nevils original idea was to reinforce the base plant....an increase the percentage of it back in the haze...in essence he wanted to put us back in to the starting possition/or better like we were wen we had straight hazeA, hazeC an FH....an out of the situation were the 30 plus years of inbreeding of those same plants(mainly hazeC) has taken us an the watered down stuff that getts sold now....

 

[harvestreaper]

So in essence wat you guys are saying is if for example I add a quality lumbo sativa to haze like others have done....an then I take it to f2, an then f3 I will find beter haze plants than the parent haze...or that my return of good plants will be better than the straight f1 haze..... been done by many no improvements were made.....which should be expected...you can get good plants but...coming further out from the base plants that give haze its power will not improve it.....nevils original idea was to reinforce the base plant....an increase the percentage of it back in the haze...in essence he wanted to put us back in to the starting possition/or better like we were wen we had straight hazeA, hazeC an FH....an out of the situation were the 30 plus years of inbreeding of those same plants(mainly hazeC) has taken us an the watered down stuff that getts sold now....

for me inbreeding on outcross bred plants is still to use your word essentially, outcrossing so the results make sense,, the only way you can improve a line is by purification the only way to purify the line is by breeding it back to the purest genes in its heritage ,,,in the case of haze were told its a 4 way Colombian hybrid with a small percent of standout plants,,so do the standout plants come from some kinda hybrid vigour of two or more of those lines or pairing of genes from only one and the best of the 4 columbians within the line ??, if you could find a pure columban line equal and or better to the best hazes with a better percent of good plants than haze you could improve haze using it as a backcross altho i would question the value of the exercise if the lumbo already better lol,,the other way would be select out those 5 percent plants and breed them together pairing up the desirable genes within the haze line ,,

 

[TheDarkStorm]

for me inbreeding on outcross bred plants is still to use your word essentially, outcrossing so the results make sense,, the only way you can improve a line is by purification the only way to purify the line is by breeding it back to the purest genes in its heritage ,,,in the case of haze were told its a 4 way Colombian hybrid with a small percent of standout plants,,so do the standout plants come from some kinda hybrid vigour of two or more of those lines or pairing of genes from only one and the best of the 4 columbians within the line ??, if you could find a pure columban line equal and or better to the best hazes with a better percent of good plants than haze you could improve haze using it as a backcross altho i would question the value of the exercise if the lumbo already better lol,,the other way would be select out those 5 percent plants and breed them together pairing up the desirable genes within the haze line ,,

A short cut to give some insight to the 5% plan...Over 30 years of haze being in Holland the best haze would have been sifted through by now an put to the best over an over... tom did it..mad mac has documented this too....

 

[harvestreaper]

A short cut to give some insight to the 5% plan...Over 30 years of haze being in Holland the best haze would have been sifted through by now an put to the best over an over... tom did it..mad mac has documented this too....

fair point altho i dont believe anyone has done any sifting over the last 30 years at all because it had minimal commercial value,, the commercial value of haze was demonstrated by neville in crosses as you mentioned both tom hill and madmac have done work with haze but thats just two people in 30 years that have seriously gone thru there stock and its there best keepers along with others best keepers that would be the building blocks of the 5 % plan ,i know its not a popular thought but tom hills looks like sk haze to me from first time i seen it just my opinion so i would not use that stock on a 5% project myself probably need a 100 small breeder's actively collecting keepers to start the 5% project unless sam does his 10 000 plant grow lol