The Haze discussion thread

[@hempy]

People that grow Haze or Haze hybrids or sativas are normally growing them for personal use .

Long flowering sativas normally yield big if you know how to grow them right so the trade off for longer flowering times is a better yield and quality smoke.

 

[RoyalFlush]

People that grow Haze or Haze hybrids or sativas are normally growing them for personal use .

Long flowering sativas normally yield big if you know how to grow them right so the trade off for longer flowering times is a better yield and quality smoke.

The market doesn't want the Haze/PureSativa effect, on top of that a fast flowering indica can beat the yield by 3x. The only Haze hybrid I know that can out do both is Northern Lights #5 x HazeC.

 

[@hempy]

The market doesn't want the Haze/PureSativa effect, on top of that a fast flowering indica can beat the yield by 3x. The only Haze hybrid I know that can out do both is Northern Lights #5 x HazeC.

It depends on the market Royal if quality sativas was on offer there would be a demand for them but they are not on offer so you cant have a demand.

Put a good Thai or Colombian or Haze on the menu and watch it fly off the shelf.

I have to respectfully disagree with you on indicas out yielding sativas no indica has ever out yielded a good sativa i have ever seen even indoors.

 

[RoyalFlush]

It depends on the market Royal if quality sativas was on offer there would be a demand for them but they are not on offer so you cant have a demand.

Put a good Thai or Colombian or Haze on the menu and watch it fly off the shelf.

I have to respectfully disagree with you on indicas out yielding sativas no indica has ever out yielded a good sativa i have ever seen even indoors.

Sorry @hempy but even if quality sativas were offered they wouldn't fly off the shelf. The market has been pushing the Indica effect for many years, people are used to a heavy/body numbing stone, that's what they consider quality and Haze/Sativa effects trash. (US speaking)

As for indicas out yielding Sativas, I was speaking on time fame. I can Harvest 2 indica grows in a long flower Haze/Sativa time frame.

 

[@hempy]

Sorry @hempy but even if quality sativas were offered they wouldn't fly off the shelf. The market has been pushing the Indica effect for many years, people are used to a heavy/body numbing stone, that's what they consider quality and Haze/Sativa effects trash. (US speaking)

As for indicas out yielding Sativas, I was speaking on time fame. I can Harvest 2 indica grows in a long flower Haze/Sativa time frame.

Most people i know would smoke sativa over indica any day it comes down to preference but my point is If a good sativa was offered it would sell and i don't see to many quality sativas being offered retail.

Yes a indica will flower faster but no indica can yield the same as a sativa even with a 20 week flowering sat the yield will still be larger from one plant if grown right than say a indica grown 2x.

 

[RoyalFlush]

Most people i know would smoke sativa over indica any day it comes down to preference but my point is If a good sativa was offered it would sell and i don't see to many quality sativas being offered retail.

Yes a indica will flower faster but no indica can yield the same as a sativa even with a 20 week flowering sat the yield will still be larger from one plant if grown right than say a indica grown 2x.

The American market is a bit different compared to the UK/EU and Koala Land, but I agree quality Sativas are great to have in the private stash.

 

[TPFTFW]

there’s definitely a market for for high end sativa cuts
38-41 all day in a legal state

 

[musigny23]

RoyalFlush

You've made a few points that while somewhat true, are generalizations. It just isn't that simple.

I don't know where you are, I'm in NorCal and have been involved with this for 40+ years. I only mention that as a qualification of extensive experience. I also don't know your age or how long you've been in the trade. I also was involved in a very busy dispensary for nearly 10 years.

The first thing I would say is that very few pure "indicas" are grown in the US. The vast majority of the OGs, Cookies, Cakes etc are some sort of hybrid stew. Their effects are quite variable but yes the sedative aspect is popular. But there are popular sativa dominant types that have done well. And among older folks, the famous sativas are fondly remembered. Offer a fine Columbian, Mexican, Panamanian or Thai and the older crowd will definitely be interested. And there are (around where I am anyway) younger folks with a real curiosity about those.

The big hurdle it sounds like is the long flowering factor. Spoken like a true profit driven indoor grower. Please remember that 30+ years ago, indoor was nonexistent. When indoor emerged in direct response to helicopter raids and as a way for those without a suitable climate to grow, fast flowering became a priority due to the extreme cost of energy. There was no sweeping consumer disdain for sativa. There was only disdain for badly done brickweed.

So the consumer tastes you feel you are seeing today were shaped largely by that for the past 20+ years or so, indica dominant hybrids grown indoors were all they were seeing. Still that didn't mean all interest sativa vanished, definitely not. At this point to a large degree, consumers are offered what works best for the industry, which is mainly driven by production cost and easy superficial appeal. Hybrids that quickly produce dense frosty "product" in an industrial facility.

Sure some consumers are just fine and happy with that, but many would respond to well grown full season outdoor sativa. I know that for a fact. It's a shame we have a situation where soulless factory indoor that sparkles has a much higher wholesale value than a classic electric outdoor grown sativa masterfully done. It makes no sense in terms fundamental quality. Eventually I suspect the market will begin to realize that.

 

[RoyalFlush]

RoyalFlush

You've made a few points that while somewhat true, are generalizations. It just isn't that simple.

I don't know where you are, I'm in NorCal and have been involved with this for 40+ years. I only mention that as a qualification of extensive experience. I also don't know your age or how long you've been in the trade. I also was involved in a very busy dispensary for nearly 10 years.

The first thing I would say is that very few pure "indicas" are grown in the US. The vast majority of the OGs, Cookies, Cakes etc are some sort of hybrid stew. Their effects are quite variable but yes the sedative aspect is popular. But there are popular sativa dominant types that have done well. And among older folks, the famous sativas are fondly remembered. Offer a fine Columbian, Mexican, Panamanian or Thai and the older crowd will definitely be interested. And there are (around where I am anyway) younger folks with a real curiosity about those.

The big hurdle it sounds like is the long flowering factor. Spoken like a true profit driven indoor grower. Please remember that 30+ years ago, indoor was nonexistent. When indoor emerged in direct response to helicopter raids and as a way for those without a suitable climate to grow, fast flowering became a priority due to the extreme cost of energy. There was no sweeping consumer disdain for sativa. There was only disdain for badly done brickweed.

So the consumer tastes you feel you are seeing today were shaped largely by that for the past 20+ years or so, indica dominant hybrids grown indoors were all they were seeing. Still that didn't mean all interest sativa vanished, definitely not. At this point to a large degree, consumers are offered what works best for the industry, which is mainly driven by production cost and easy superficial appeal. Hybrids that quickly produce dense frosty "product" in an industrial facility.

Sure some consumers are just fine and happy with that, but many would respond to well grown full season outdoor sativa. I know that for a fact. It's a shame we have a situation where soulless factory indoor that sparkles has a much higher wholesale value than a classic electric outdoor grown sativa masterfully done. It makes no sense in terms fundamental quality. Eventually I suspect the market will begin to realize that.

Thank you for taking your time to write what I was too lazy to post.

 

[Jayded]

I see it as a generational thing,all the older heads who grew up with all the sativa imports still prefer those types of high.The younger gens that have grown up with mostly skunk,nl,aghans prefer the more sedating effects of these to the high flying sativa effects

 

[@hempy]

Great post musigny23 the day will come when good sativas will again be offered but it will take law reforms and a cottage industry offering boutique products for us to see it large scale like we did pre 85 on large scales.

 

[JohnnyChicago]

The market doesn't want the Haze/PureSativa effect, on top of that a fast flowering indica can beat the yield by 3x. The only Haze hybrid I know that can out do both is Northern Lights #5 x HazeC.

90-95 days flowering.
Only few weeks of veg from rooted clone..
Definitively a place for that kind of bud on the market, RF

Indicas do yield 3x more in <4 month, from rooted clone? Not sure.



Panama x Original Haze

 

[RoyalFlush]

What do you guy think about Kali Mist (Serious) vs Western Winds (sagamatha)?

 

[mexcurandero420]

It depends on the market Royal if quality sativas was on offer there would be a demand for them but they are not on offer so you cant have a demand.

Put a good Thai or Colombian or Haze on the menu and watch it fly off the shelf.

I have to respectfully disagree with you on indicas out yielding sativas no indica has ever out yielded a good sativa i have ever seen even indoors.

Takes to long with the flowering period to be commercial and for most of the shop visitors to strong.When you've a sativa like Zamal or a good Thai with a flowering period of 18-20 weeks, although the potency is more than good, only a few connaiseurs would buy it and the rest of the shop visitors choose just the commercial crap what is available on the menu.

 

[@hempy]

What do you guy think about Kali Mist (Serious) vs Western Winds (sagamatha)?

I grew the early Kali mist only and it surprised me and my friends big time the high was like smoking a strong high land Thai i don't know what the modern versions like or what western winds is like.

 

[Cvh]

^I have pack of Kali Mist somewhere. Now I want to grow it out after reading your post Hempy.
Will do it after the summer I think.

 

[@hempy]

Takes to long with the flowering period to be commercial and for most of the shop visitors to strong.When you've a sativa like Zamal or a good Thai with a flowering period of 18-20 weeks, although the potency is more than good, only a few connaiseurs would buy it and the rest of the shop visitors choose just the commercial crap what is available on the menu.

If your a small cottage run family run business that is legal and you live in the right place growing out doors plants can yield huge.

It comes down to product availability and a brand name if people know it is on offer trust me it will fly off the shelf's.

The legal industry right now is going threw huge changes the future is a cottage industry not a large corporate industry like we see now.

Older smokers and there are many will buy it and so will the younger market it all comers down to what type of affects people want and most i know don't like cough locks.

 

[@hempy]

^I have pack of Kali Mist somewhere. Now I want to grow it out after reading your post Hempy.
Will do it after the summer I think.

Kali mist is in my opinion one of the most under rated strains

 

[mr.brunch]

If they would legalise on an international scale, we may be lucky enough to get imported sativas grown in their sweet spot... that’s something that would sell itself.

 

[Cvh]

^Yes, back to the haydays. We can only hope.
But besides legislation, you have also hybridisation going on, tainting and diluting the NLD gene stock...