The growing large plants, outdoors, thread...

[nomaad]

When do you prune up the insides? Before or after the netting?
Do you do this again right before flowering begins?

DFifferent for every strain. I know a grower who got 7.5 off a grape ape in 200 gallons by aggressively (!!!) pruning throughout veg. Completely counterintuitive, but the GA produces more like 2-4 when left to veg into a green hued simulacrum of Cousin It.

hey all, I'm gonna do some outdoor smartpots this year and was wondering if it might be better to have a bigger smartpot thats elevated off the ground for 360 degree air around the rootball, or have it in contact with the ground for capillary action and more rooting goin down below?

obviously having it in contact with the ground will allow the tap to be cooler and have access to water, but with constant tending and ability to keep the pots watered, would an elevated pot be better or worse? I think it could be better due to a more targeted to the roots style of watering, rather then just drenching the shit out of everything with sparse 'traveling' type roots. But worse in the regard of having less support to keep it anchored, plus the access to water/cooler temps.

edit: gonna use very large pots if needed (for elevated), can/will scale whether it be 65 gallon or 300 gallons.

also, I hear 18" is a good depth, if this is the case, why not just do the 300 gallon SP's elevated for some massive air root pruning producing a huge ball in the container. if 18" is good, why do you need the depth of the 'in contact with ground' smartpots?

Another grower I know did an experiment whereby he buried some of his 400gal smarties and left some above ground. he concluded that the ones that were in-ground did better. I have given thought to putting all my smartpots on pallets so that they can be moved by a bobcat in the event of competition in the foliar zone, bad shadows, etc. I don't think I'll do it, but I have given it thought.

I once moved a 200 gallon smartpot with a couple of buddies for the above reason... we used 3" wide straps and managed to move it after letting it go without water as long as possible in september... It had to be done as the garden was way too crowded and the little sucker was getting zero sun in the shadow of a huge purple afghani. There was a lot of root action going on there where once sat the smartie... also goes toward the plant staying cool.

 

[bombadil.360]

can you say: sticky this thread?

kick ass monsters! k+

 

[baet]

.

 

[theJointedOne]

Hey Baet, Northeastern CA growers unite! lol

So yeah about the strains you asked - green crack is great up here. I ran a super silver haze last year that could of used a week more but it did well and was really nice. Not sure about the headband or the bb x og. I would say maybe consider a GH for those if your up in elevation. While butte is almost the same elevation as me his location is much much warmer in the fall. If your up where journey and me are from it gets colder in the fall due to elevation. We are no where near the valley floor and are tucked away in the crevases of the NE sierras where it gets cold when the sun takes so long to get over the mountain tops. Butte could run those crosses but up here you need a GH probably.

I have a theory about outdoor, I think that the difference between day and night temps plays a big part in your overall bud production and bud size. I have a feeling the less fluctuation between day and night temps, the bigger and denser your buds will be. So if you live like a few of us in the cold mountains, its a little more work to get the fatty plants, but with a GH its no problem!

Raspect

 

[Chimney]

dfgdfgdf

 

[theJointedOne]

oh for sure!

its all strain/grower dependent imho

 

[*Journeyman*]

I have a theory about outdoor, I think that the difference between day and night temps plays a big part in your overall bud production and bud size. I have a feeling the less fluctuation between day and night temps, the bigger and denser your buds will be. So if you live like a few of us in the cold mountains, its a little more work to get the fatty plants, but with a GH its no problem!

One thing I've seen when temps dip too low is plants get milky trichomes and from my understanding resin production has stopped. These are not cloudy trichomes but milky and for sure due to sustained cold. At the least a short period of milky trichomes then things warm up a bit.

Honestly bro don't know about the day/night temp swing but cold soil/roots are not great and also if the plant structure above ground is not warm enough fast enough in the day cycle then for sure you'll lose 'production'. The later you get into the season the more shortened light cycles and extended night cold periods have an effect.

 

[baet]

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[theJointedOne]

butte is high up

 

[fisher15]

NICE breakdown B, definitely giving the 'hard' topping a try this year. We do things similar with the inner cage, I feel it's convienent for use in initial training, as well as to support main branches. Those first few, very large side branches really end up holding some weight, so I try to make sure those are 'routed' through the fencing so as they rest on wire. Otherwise split city.

Really feeling at home here...

 

[baet]

jointedone-yeah, im just saying ill probably have no problem with the SSH cross and the cold fall. his pines and manzanitas give me a good reference to his elevation around here.

howdy fisher,

you have any idea of strains going out this season?

 

[Tom Hill]

Regarding the article on Gypsum.

I have a few "bottom lines" of my own.

The first of which is that we (at least I) am not some back yard gardener looking to improve my clay, nor are we correcting acreage etc. More akin to giant pumpkin farmers looking to set new records - we push the hell out of it during the summer far beyond what many can imagine. Cannabis can take -indeed thrives- in this situation. Most lab analysis would be off the charts looking at this mix, lol. It is basically like planting on top of a recently gone-off compost pile, again, like the giant pumpkin farmer. This is nothing new to the cannabis farmer and anytime you are advised to water and let rest (Vic's? "super soil" recipe etc) it's because, well, prepare/plan for it to heat up a while as we go through a quasi-heat-pasteurization/composting phase. Whether organic or not, when pushing it like this we will be dealing with salts and gypsum helps. What the backyard tomato farmer may consider an outside possibility, is a given reality to many of us. Load a soil up like I advise here and watch the Na meter fall/sodium rise, counter with pre-planing and Kickapoo juice (EJ cat etc) at the ready. Imo, it is better to bring it right to the edge and complex some salts if need be than to underestimate what this plant is capable of - just make sure to be running on a semi-empty tank by halfway+ through budding. I'm hesitant to experiment with other forms sulphur, and I am comfortable with the amount of gypsum in this mix.

Almost without fail, the giant friggen squash or whathaveyou in the pic of that secret magical tea brewing system did not come from using that tea as advised, but from a volunteer over by that leak in the big vat, lol (I'll swallow otherwise when they show me the field).

Here is a few words on sulphur from the big green book written (i believe) by Bart Hall (Hemp Diseases and Pests - McPartland, Clarke, and Watson).

"Most importantly for all crops in rotation, sulphur is essential for enthusiastic microbial activity. Most microbes need one part of sulphur for each ten parts of nitrogen and phosphorus. What is commonly described as the carbon:nitrogen ratio (C:N) is really the carbon:nitrogenhosphorus:sulphur ratio (C:N:S) and should be approximately 250:10:10:1 for optimal microbial health."

Localhero, Howzit,

I would be comfortable and have swapped out the Black Gold for many premade soil recipes, Ocean Forest, Happy Frog, SunShine mix #2, etc, etc,. If I was making my own, I'd just make sure the peat wasn't too far off the charts on the low pH end. If I had deeper holes and was able to tend them at will, i'd go with a lighter base mix, and the opposite otherwise.

No experience with the OG's regarding spring flowering.

I knew a guy who fired his truck up each night for a few hours to shine lights on his greenhouse to prevent flowering. The exact light intensity required to prevent flowering is unknown to me but I have seen the shady side of a plant freak out while the lighted side did fine etc, so be careful not to spread the extended lighting out too far (I wish I knew just how far that was).

In the absence of garden lighting (which I am going to use this year, as well as flirting with the idea of the weather dependent April 19/20th transplant), I like to plant -if possible- during a waxing moon, a few days to a week before it is full. I believe the full moon is in fact bright enough to delay flowering some and this helps to account for earlier or later harvests from year to year when growing the same lines etc.

As far as which hybrids will work well or not in avoiding catastrophe re early spring flowering it's kind of a check and see thing, unfortunately. I have seen ones I thought would do well (say, due to high narrow leafed make-up and late harvest), only to flip quick to bud, and visa verse. Once we get into hybrids segregating and recombining there's just one way to find out which way the chips have fallen. All too often reality eats all attempts at phenotypic correlations for lunch.

Have a good one- T

PS, we are busting our humps over here turning holes in between snow flurries Busy busy..

PS2, Merged this thread with Jenn's Soil thread, hope I did it correctly, lol, (this post is in response to pg13 of this newly merged thread. Still getting the hang of it.-T

 

[*Journeyman*]

Whether organic or not, when pushing it like this we will be dealing with salts and gypsum helps.

So is it the sulfur in gypsum that 'balances' salts in either instance? LOL...saw you edited your post so have to re-look at that new info.

 

[Tom Hill]

It can increase how open the facet of conversion to humus is turned on. Not really a case of balancing as much as helping to tie-up/complex salts. The article failed to look at possible/likely/obvious modes of action as well in improving soil tilth via increased microbial activity. It reminded me of my own argument against lime additions -an old habit out of traditional rain soaked/leached/acid ag land that is not quite what we are usually dealing with. PS, sorry Journeyman, I'm a bit of a chronic editor :/ -T

 

[*Journeyman*]

hey everyone, tom, butte, journeyman, fisher, nomaad, howdy.

butte, i think we're pretty close, i happen to live in the county your handle is, wink. same goes for journeyman and jointedone. last years 90 mph wind and rain was fucking brutal!

Uhhhhh...for sure I should not be included with those guys especially Tom and Butte. Jointedone and I have a mutual acquaintance but JO by far has much more experience than me. I just got lucky for a summer.

For the last few years I've been messing around at 4,000' without a greenhouse. This is what me and most of my friends deal with. Then there's the microclimates like I get a killer frost and a friend just a few miles away had nothing at all...lol.

BTW...I do remember Guano Tea saying he was impressed with Green Crack.

 

[Tom Hill]

Wow, looks fun. Is the smoke from a massive plant as good as it is from a small plant?

In my experience, on average, no, no friggen way man. There are just too many factors stacked against us. The old plant can not compete with the young plant, ever. Are we at our best after a long days let alone months of work? Naw, we're spent, we've been exposed to all kind of abuses bugs mold and other from our partners and are ready/begging to retire etc. The healthy long-season plant is the ultimate challenge to the cannafarmer, like catching stealhead with an out of season fly on a cloudy day. -T

 

[bcell]

In my experience, on average, no, no friggen way man. There are just too many factors stacked against us. The old plant can not compete with the young plant, ever. Are we at our best after a long days let alone months of work? Naw, we're spent, we've been exposed to all kind of abuses bugs mold and other from our partners and are ready/begging to retire etc. The healthy long-season plant is the ultimate challenge to the cannafarmer, like catching stealhead with an out of season fly on a cloudy day. -T

I guess we should only shoot for just 4-5 lbs per plant and go for quality. Love the thread.

 

[Tom Hill]

"I guess we should only shoot for just 4-5 lbs per plant and go for quality."

^^^^ And, therein lies the debate

 

[Scrogerman]

Tagged, i like your thread, Happy Growing!
Peace....Scroger!

 

[localhero]

Ahh this thread. very niiice.

I just tossed in a cup of gypsum into a twenty gallon soiless mix just because i hate powdery mildew. Im gonna shoot for 8 and be stoked for 4.

Tom do you dig trenches under your pots like Butte? I cant be part of the trench club, but definitely will be building those modded home made pots. My options right now are 5' diameter 18" high pots = 200 gallons or 4' diameter pots at 18" = 125 gallons soil. I have a space of 45' x 23'. was thinking @20 pots. Am i way off base with thinking 20 will fit? What would you guys do with that area? and what would be the diff between 300, 200, 125 gallon pots at the end of the day? Ill get on photoshop tonight during a trim break and sketch out what i was thinkin.