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The Election Wrecked America's Underground Weed Economy.

Gypsy Nirvana

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Administrator
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A good story that shows how prop 64 and other recent states initiatives on MJ/Cannabis has polarized the growing community.

When Trip was growing up on the East Coast, the only stores where people could legally buy marijuana were in the Netherlands, which might as well have been Mars to a teenage stoner who also dabbled in dealing. The most common product on the market was “brick weed,” the dirt-cheap stuff from fields in Mexico or Jamaica that gets vacuum-sealed into bales for ease of smuggling. He remembers it being a stale and sad shade of brown.

“When we could make enough money from that to buy green weed, we’d buy Canadian,” he recalls. “Cali bud was almost unheard-of. I don’t think there was enough of it to leave Cali.”

Two decades later, the 39-year-old Trip — a nickname he offered up to identity himself — oversees a handful of grow operations in the Sierra Nevada foothills that produce several hundred pounds of green California grass per year. He’s living his dream, but that dream took a surreal turn on Tuesday when California voters approved Proposition 64, a ballot initiative that will legalize marijuana sales to adults over 21 by 2018.

Passage of California’s measure creates a market estimated to be worth $4.3 billion by 2018. Nevada, Massachusetts, and Maine also fully legalized weed, following the path blazed since 2012 by Colorado, Washington, Oregon, Alaska, and Washington, D.C. Four more states also legalized or expanded access to medical marijuana.

Across the country, traditional supply networks fueled by underground growers in Northern California are about to be disrupted by competition from state-sanctioned businesses. For consumers, that means weed will eventually get cheaper, but small-time growers like Trip are worried they won’t be able to survive in the new era.

Stamping out illegal grows, including environmentally damaging ones linked to organized crime, has long been a promise of pro-legalization campaigns, including the successful one in California. But it could have unintended economic consequences. The California Growers Association estimates there are at least 40,000 “independent” marijuana grows in the state that provide about 250,000 jobs, and Trip says money from guys like him has boosted the housing market and helped keep afloat everything from auto dealerships to the construction industry.

“Local businesses haven’t just survived, they’ve thrived off growers like me,” he said. “If we go away, the trickle-down effect will be enormous. People are going to go back to making meth instead of growing weed.”

Already upended by declining wholesale prices caused by the crumbling of prohibition, the black market will soon be in free fall. Cannabis Benchmarks, a group that tracks the wholesale price of marijuana, said in its midyear report for 2016 that a “supply glut” has driven the average cost per pound down to about $1,600, compared to more than $2,000 at the start of the year. Those prices are expected to drop even further — as low as $800 per pound — after the fall harvest by California’s outdoor farmers.

“I don’t think wholesale prices can get much lower,” said Hezekiah Allen, executive director of the California Growers Association. “For a lot of people, they’re already [selling] at cost of production.”

In the short term, those savings won’t necessarily be passed on to the consumer. While the price for a quality “eighth” — the 3.5-gram industry standard for a single-serve baggie — is as low as $30 in legal weed states like Colorado and Washington, it remains around $50 or $60 in states with strict drug laws. But with East Coast states set to establish legal marketplaces and indoor grow-ops proliferating, good pot is going to get cheaper eventually.

Prohibition effectively created price supports for California farmers. Eight years ago, Trip says, a pound of weed that sold for $2,200 in California would fetch $4,400 on the East Coast. Even with smuggling costs, he was nearly doubling his investment. But with the arrival of legal state marketplaces and spread of illicit indoor grow operations, supply is rapidly catching up with demand. Today, Trip says he’d be lucky to net $200 in profit per pound on a shipment back east.

“The East Coast market is approaching parity with the West Coast,” he says. “It’s kind of not worth it to bring it there anymore.”

He’s not the only one complaining. VICE News spoke with several people involved in the marijuana black market, and all of them have seen margins slim since legalization took effect in Washington and Colorado in 2014. They reported high prices — as much as $4,000 a pound in some Midwestern states — but the post-election consensus is that’s not going to last.

Nationwide, marijuana sales are valued at anywhere from $20.6 billion to $40 billion per year. Those are just educated guesses by cannabis industry analysts and think tank experts, but there’s no doubt a massive underground market exists for marijuana — and not the brown schwag Trip was stuck with back in the day.

Today’s consumers prefer the THC-rich, medical-grade pot grown indoors under expensive lights, in warehouses that rack up huge electricity bills. This supply hasn’t grown to meet the national demand, however, and Trip’s farm-grown product is nearly as good for a fraction of the production cost. All he needs is a few greenhouses, a steady water supply, and plenty of California sunshine. Growers like him provide as much as 70 percent of the weed smoked across the country, according to one state law enforcement estimate.

Trip currently sells to California medical dispensaries through a wholesale “broker,” who pays up to $1,800 per pound, depending on the quality. With each of his gardens projected to produce harvests of 500-plus pounds, even after factoring in labor and supply costs he’s banking more than most Silicon Valley programmers — and paying a fraction of the taxes.

He claims his gardens are technically sanctioned under California’s permissive medical marijuana law, but the local sheriff raided one plantation this year, and he’s still liable to get busted by the feds, hence his request for a pseudonym. He wears a green bandana and an Indiana Jones-style hat, which makes him look like an old frontier outlaw, the kind that prowled the Sierra during the gold rush more than a century ago. He clearly enjoys carrying the mantle.

“I’ve moved a lot of herb for a lot of years,” he says, flashing a proud grin. “I could be described as a career criminal.”

He’s also a small business owner — employing at least a dozen people — and he’s trying to grow organically with minimal damage to the environment. He draws water from a natural spring on his property, and he’s taken steps to prevent erosion that can damage streams. With his partner expecting a baby soon, he’s worried the new green rush will put him out of business, a fear that is not entirely unfounded.

Declining prices and changes to California’s medical marijuana law, which will be further affected by the passage of Prop 64, have forced 30 to 40 percent of small-time growers to quit the game, according to one industry insider’s estimate. Major players in California’s marijuana industry have already started building massive, industrial-scale grow operations that will boost production and drive the wholesale price of pot down even further, making it harder for mom-and-pop operations to compete.

The California Growers Association refused to endorse or oppose Prop 64 based on split opinion among its members. Allen warns that the remaining small-scale farms are in jeopardy unless the state creates regulations that allow for both big and small operations to thrive.

“We’ve got 50,000 economically viable family farms in California right now,” Allen said. “That’s unheard-of in America today. Why would we let that go?”

Allen says he’s all for cracking down on “criminals” — the bad actors who pollute the land, fuel violent crime, and specialize in shipping to states where weed remains illegal — but he warns that many responsible growers who currently supply California medical dispensaries will be pushed into the black market without regulatory accommodations. Many of these growers offer prized niche strains, which critics say huge commercial grow-ops won’t be able to replicate. If it’s not available legally, Allen says, the black market will still crave top-notch California pot.

“These growers aren’t going to disappear,” he said. “Small growers aren’t going to stop feeding their families, especially when there’s a demand in the national marketplace.”

Persistent street-level dealing has been a problem in Seattle, but Washington addressed the issue by bringing down taxes to make the state’s recreational market more competitive. California’s new system imposes a 15 percent tax on retail marijuana sales and additional taxes on cultivators, which could leave room for untaxed grows to sell for less than the dispensary and still turn a profit. And while prices on the East Coast have fallen, continued prohibition in the 22 states without medical or recreational weed will keep prices just high enough to allow the export market to remain viable.

“The feeling is that unless we see national change,” said Lauren Michaels, legislative affairs manager for the California Police Chiefs Association, “we’ll see a strong and robust black market in any state that allows for legal marijuana.”

Despite the DOJ’s warning that legal weed spilling across state lines would not be tolerated, the feds have mostly stayed away from meddling in Colorado, Washington, and Oregon. But in California, there’s concern among major cannabis entrepreneurs that failure to rein in black market growers could ruin the new system by attracting the attention of the DEA and other federal law enforcement agencies, since weed remains illegal federally.

“It will bring the federal government back into California,” said Steve DeAngelo, CEO of Oakland’s Harborside Health Center, the state’s largest medical dispensary. “We have fought long and hard to get the feds out of cannabis in California, and as long as we have large organized grows — cartels growing illicitly and illegally diverting out of state — then the feds are going to be coming in.”

California’s law will wipe away previous convictions for marijuana-related offenses, but people like Trip, who has a felony drug conviction in another state, could be barred from getting a license to legally grow. And overall, only a fraction of the state’s growers — DeAngelo estimates as low as 10 percent — will be integrated into the legal regime.

“There’s really only one solution and that’s to end the illegal market,” DeAngelo said. “We know that no matter what the federal government throws at it, they’re not going to be able to stop cannabis being produced in the Emerald Triangle [in Northern California]. They’ve been trying to do that for decades. They haven’t succeeded and they’re not going to succeed.”

The bottom line is that growers like Trip will have to adapt or go extinct. California’s new law calls for the state to recognize “regional appellations of origin” for marijuana, similar to the designation you might find on a fancy European wine or cheese. Growers in the Emerald Triangle and elsewhere in California to hope create the Napa Valley of weed, a place where connoisseurs will come to sample boutique strains, tour organic gardens, and enjoy the stunning scenery.

Standing with Trip on his secluded farm in the foothills of the Sierra Nevada, it’s easy to see how a “canna tourism” industry could catch on here. But he’s not counting on it. He’s already asking himself, “What if this whole thing comes to an end? What’s my exit strategy?” In the long term, he’d like to go legit and work in real estate or construction, but he notes that California’s new system won’t be up and running until 2018. And in the meantime, he smells opportunity in what’s left of the underground market.

“What are people like me going to do?” he asks rhetorically. “Probably keep growing marijuana.”

https://news.vice.com/story/the-ele...round-weed-economy?utm_source=vicenewstwitter

By Keegan Hamilton on Nov 9, 2016
 
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rolandomota

Well-known member
Veteran
All these people talking about profits when medical in California is supposed to be nonprofit. Well now you have a huge for profit market so pay to play or get out of the way.
 

Lyfespan

Active member
All these people talking about profits when medical in California is supposed to be nonprofit. Well now you have a huge for profit market so pay to play or get out of the way.

does a nonprofit have business expenses, overhead and planning the next years budget? has it ever cost less to do business in the future?

arent these things you would want your medical provider planning for so your care stays as you agreed?
 
R

Robrites

People forget that legalization expands the market. Many people did not smoke because it was illegal and they were afraid of getting a ticket or losing their jobs. Now new users are coming out of the woodwork in our legal state. 90% of the weed in our small county was exported to other (populated) counties before legalization. Now much of it stays here.
 

Gypsy Nirvana

Recalcitrant Reprobate -
Administrator
Veteran
Yes, this is bound to happen Robites. There are a lot of curious people out there who have been told that cannabis is a bad/evil plant all of their lives, and have been faced with all sorts of negative propaganda about it, that now see that suddenly it is a legal commodity, to grow, sell or purchase, and want to see what all the fuss is about, now that they don't risk their property and liberty for using it.
 

Limeygreen

Well-known member
Veteran
I really do hope that there is room for boutique cannabis, if I have to buy it from a shop I want something from a small farmer rather than industrial farmer. It is like meat I want from a farmer who gives a shit, not one with 10000 head who shoves grain down their throat, I want to taste the grass they ate, the fat that has been exercised while they roam around as they should. On top of that I want to give the farmer my money directly and not through a middleman or wholesaler, they did the work they deserve all the money, I should be able to go directly to them instead of them having to put it through marketing.
 

bluntmassa

Member
I really do hope that there is room for boutique cannabis, if I have to buy it from a shop I want something from a small farmer rather than industrial farmer. It is like meat I want from a farmer who gives a shit, not one with 10000 head who shoves grain down their throat, I want to taste the grass they ate, the fat that has been exercised while they roam around as they should. On top of that I want to give the farmer my money directly and not through a middleman or wholesaler, they did the work they deserve all the money, I should be able to go directly to them instead of them having to put it through marketing.
If you know the right people you can get moonshine and I'm a long way from Kentucky but it's still available. If there is a demand there will be a supply. Grass fed beef is cheaper yet they charge more money it's a win win for the supplier.
 

bombadil.360

Andinismo Hierbatero
Veteran
I really do hope that there is room for boutique cannabis, if I have to buy it from a shop I want something from a small farmer rather than industrial farmer. It is like meat I want from a farmer who gives a shit, not one with 10000 head who shoves grain down their throat, I want to taste the grass they ate, the fat that has been exercised while they roam around as they should. On top of that I want to give the farmer my money directly and not through a middleman or wholesaler, they did the work they deserve all the money, I should be able to go directly to them instead of them having to put it through marketing.


auma is designed for what you have described.

Small farm liscenses can integrate / hold distribution and store-front liscenses as well.

I think the article on the OP is misguided. This "Trip" guy, making more than a silicon valley programmer (as per the article) can't get a fucking liscense now? He has money to do it and keep at it under the new bill, why the fear mongering?
 

Gypsy Nirvana

Recalcitrant Reprobate -
Administrator
Veteran
I really do hope that there is room for boutique cannabis, if I have to buy it from a shop I want something from a small farmer rather than industrial farmer. It is like meat I want from a farmer who gives a shit, not one with 10000 head who shoves grain down their throat, I want to taste the grass they ate, the fat that has been exercised while they roam around as they should. On top of that I want to give the farmer my money directly and not through a middleman or wholesaler, they did the work they deserve all the money, I should be able to go directly to them instead of them having to put it through marketing.

Do you know what?......I reckon that here will always be 'niche' or 'craft' producers of cannabis, even thru legal times.

Suddenly our average or expert 'home, hobby, horticulturalist', will be able to let it be known that he/she is a grower, and even advertise the fact, so creating a new/organic/specialized product on the market, that cannot be purchased from mainstream corporate retail, by the consumer, and a legitimate business for the grower.

...Looks like a win-win to me.

Without the risk of having your front door pushed in by a SWAT team
 

DoubleTripleOG

Chemdog & Kush Lover Extraordinaire
ICMag Donor
People forget that legalization expands the market. Many people did not smoke because it was illegal and they were afraid of getting a ticket or losing their jobs. Now new users are coming out of the woodwork in our legal state. 90% of the weed in our small county was exported to other (populated) counties before legalization. Now much of it stays here.

Just to play devil's advocate..... I recently started a new job. The company I work for is a rather large corporation with locations all over the U.S.

So in many states the operate, cannabis is full on legal, or semi-legal because of medicinal. Cannabis has only been legal medicinally for just about a year in the state I live in. While reading the employee terms and conditions I stumbled upon how they get around employee's using "legal cannabis" .

It states that the only way your allowed to "use drugs" and not risk losing your job, is if it's a federally legal substance with a prescription. So if your in a med or legal state and get caught smoking at work or just have some on you(parking lot included) , they can fire you.

So because of that, even people in legal states have to watch their asses. Super fucked up, but that's how the cookie crumbles. So until the FED's change the classification, we still gotta live in the shadows.
 

FireIn.TheSky

Active member
I'm newly legal. TBH I on the fence about it. One of the pros is it will be nice to be able to trade genetics without fear. It will be nice to be ale to buy genetics from within the US or at the very least not fear buying seeds anymore. I also look forward to growing outdoors. It's a weird feeling to realize you are not technically a criminal anymore.

As for profits, we'll I think profits have been a nice side effect of illegal weed. I think people still support the black market in legal states, I kind of look at the lage legal growers as taking over the beasters and regs market.

When I started growing many years ago it was just for me, and in ok with that.
 
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Cadfael

Active member
I see more of the micro brewery model taking form. You can create good genetics and people will want what you have and don't mind paying a premium.

There are others who will "Budweiser" it.

My main concern was the over regulation of zoning and cities trying to keep it out of their area.
 

DocTim420

The Doctor is OUT and has moved on...
I suggest examining what happened in America around the alcohol prohibition days might be an indicator of our future.

Before prohibition anyone and everyone brewed beer, distilled alcohol and produced wine.

During prohibition everything went underground and most of the large established wineries switched over to producing "sacrament wine" (got to love the church!...lol) and continued as business as usual. The big players moved to north to Canada or south to Mexico/Central/So. America/Caribbean Islands and distilled like crazy.

After prohibition the barrier to enter the marketplace was increased with regulations and legal restrictions, but the booze business was like the wild west. Giants swallowed up small players and "regional" brands became "national".

Today, there are multiple markets for booze--you got thousands of microbrewers and a goodly amount of giants (Budweiser, Millers, etc), a resurgence for small batch alcohol has integrated the liquor biz, and thousands of wineries have come and gone (healthy business turnover). No real barrier for newcomers.

I submit that todays' wine market is divided in three tiers. High end/cult wines sold only through memberships (no retail outlet), top-mid market, and low end bulk wine. Very little movement in players for the two extremes (cult wines vs box wines--same people every year) but the middle market retail experience the greatest turnover in players. Over half the wineries in business 20 years ago are gone, but there are 1000s more wineries in the US today because new players entered the marketplace. Ditto for liquor and beer but to a lessor degree.

IMO, the business perseverance is kinda like watching people at a clothing optional beach. Between wave sets, everyone in the water looks the same, all you see are bobbing heads in the water. Ahh, but when water recedes, you have a chance to see who actually is wearing a bathing suit, who is not, and who lost there's (lol). When times are good and the threat of competition is minimal, everyone looks the same (all you see are heads bobbing) but when things become difficult, only those who are prepared have a better chance of weathering the storm.

Moral of the story: The days where a grower could make big mistakes and still profit in the cannabis biz are gone. In other words, the days of spending $100 for a pound of NPK are over...especially when there are growers like me that spend less than a buck a pound.

And then we have the "quality" discussion...which I say is very similar to the fashion industry. The dress worn on the runway in Paris will sell for $10k minimum. A year later it will migrate to New York and sell for $5k. A year or two it will be at Rodeo Drive and sell for $2500. Then at Nordstroms the following year for $1000 and then about 5 years later, Target will sell the exact same dress for for $50.

What changed? Quality? Same dress, right?. What changed are two things "supply" and "demand". When the dress was in Paris, maybe 1000 were made period, but by the time Target sells it, I submit that several hundreds of thousands of the same dress have been manufactured and sold. As the supply increased the demand also increased, and the price decreased. Finally, when the demand plateaued, one could suggest the consumers were satisfied and started to want something else. In the meantime how many new dresses have been introduced in Paris during the past 5 years (time it takes to go from Paris to Target)? Ahhhh, the magic of timing.

So the moral of this story is--select genetics that are "Paris", "New York" and "Rodeo Drive" quality, and let someone else select the "Target" styled genetics. Consumers drive this market....not growers.
 
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Gypsy Nirvana

Recalcitrant Reprobate -
Administrator
Veteran
I guess that it will be no different to when prohibition of alcohol ended. Not all areas are going to want coffee shops and dispensaries where cannabis is openly sold and consumed.

Even today you have 'Dry' counties in the US, where the sale of alcohol is prohibited.
 

bluntmassa

Member
Do you know what?......I reckon that here will always be 'niche' or 'craft' producers of cannabis, even thru legal times.

Suddenly our average or expert 'home, hobby, horticulturalist', will be able to let it be known that he/she is a grower, and even advertise the fact, so creating a new/organic/specialized product on the market, that cannot be purchased from mainstream corporate retail, by the consumer, and a legitimate business for the grower.

...Looks like a win-win to me.

Without the risk of having your front door pushed in by a SWAT team


Yup there will always be microbreweries some even own there own bars. That's my dream to run a couple greenhouses and my wife can manage the coffee shop. Right now we don't have the Amsterdam vibe but as it becomes truly legal we will have coffee shops just a matter of time but we must still fight for our freedom. Don't like the 6 plant count on AUMA fight it we got our foot in the door. We have had big victories on both the east and west coast they can't ignore us much longer.

But the price drop is what's going to hurt most people but we do pay a lot more for Johnny Walker Blue Label than Jack Daniels. We also pay more for fine cigars than Philly Blunts. I personally can't wait to try all the import hash I've only had Indian Charas and I would buy again I like hash better than BHO shatter etc. Personally

I also think it would help the Indian, Afghan, Moroccan, etc. Economies without all the money going to criminals. Mexico, Colombia will also prosper if they focus on quality instead of quantity they have a great climate for the best sativas in the world. Everyone is going to make money in this business and it's going to be great.

Sure a few people will lose out on business but many more people will be working. We have liquor stores and bars everywhere putting millions of people to work the same will happen with cannabis. Not to mention all the work we will have in the hemp industry it's going to great.
 

aridbud

automeister
ICMag Donor
Veteran
So because of that, even people in legal states have to watch their asses. Super fucked up, but that's how the cookie crumbles. So until the FED's change the classification, we still gotta live in the shadows.
Just because cannabis became "legal" in states, due to risk management and accidents at jobs, it is still illegal to use. With it still a classified drug, not much will change until Feds change.

Look at Colorado...legal, but the Dish Network employee using MMJ lost his case, remember? So a quadriplegic employee who is a valid medical marijuana patient in a state that also has legalized recreational marijuana can be fired from his job, even though he was a great employee by all accounts.
 

dansbuds

Retired from the workforce Bullshit
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I really do hope that there is room for boutique cannabis, if I have to buy it from a shop I want something from a small farmer rather than industrial farmer. It is like meat I want from a farmer who gives a shit, not one with 10000 head who shoves grain down their throat, I want to taste the grass they ate, the fat that has been exercised while they roam around as they should. On top of that I want to give the farmer my money directly and not through a middleman or wholesaler, they did the work they deserve all the money, I should be able to go directly to them instead of them having to put it through marketing.


I know I will still be growing my dank & selling to the same people legal or not ! because you will not be able to get the quality i give at some corner market that buys from big corp growers .
you will see a bunch of people trying to grow their own now , but once they realize how long it takes or how much it can raise the power bill to grow good indoor weed , they'll stop & come right back to me :biggrin: yeah i may have to drop my prices some ..... but i don't see taking a drastic hit .
 

slownickel

Active member
ICMag Donor
Veteran
I would see this industry as more of a hybrid economic model. Microbrew or even a winery comparison is a close comparison, as is the produce business with organic, nutrient dense, biodynamic, local grown, compared to conventionally grown or even GMO.

Markets distinguish themselves all by themselves, this is one of the definitions of a market. Then come the marketing guys. haha The guys at Dole bananas always insisted on a minimum of 7.5 inche banana length for a banana. If not, the banana was rejected and not exported (I am an ex-organic banana grower). The industry used that measurement for more than 40 years. Then came in a new whipper snapper in the marketing department. He came up with the idea of "Juniors", bananas for kids! Huge advertising budget etc.. They began to pack everything that would not make the length grade (provided it met the other characteristics) and the guy at Dole was made into a VP of Marketing.

In this biz, it will come down to eye appeal, nose appeal and at the end of the day, WOW impact. The more WOW factor related to a GROWER or DISTRIBUTOR, the better the chance of a distinguishable product PROVIDED you can sell that product to someone looking for that quality and in most cases using measurable qualitative draw, THC/CBD etc.. The informality is now starting to fade heavily, but that is normal for a fledgling industry. Everyone knows quality sells currently. It is going to become a minimum requirement. There will be losers and there will be winners.

Look at post prohibition of booze. You think the guys that made it were just the businessmen? Read the history of Jack Daniels! He ended up selling out in the 50's but he was a moonshiner that transitioned from illegal to legal and did real well at it.

The cannabis biz though has organic options, medicinal options, edible options, qualitative options, quantitative options (oils/etc) and even industrial options.

This is a new era. The only thing that is constant in life is change. And for a farmer, change is even more difficult. Welcome to the new world folks!
 

DocTim420

The Doctor is OUT and has moved on...
I guess that it will be no different to when prohibition of alcohol ended. Not all areas are going to want coffee shops and dispensaries where cannabis is openly sold and consumed.

Even today you have 'Dry' counties in the US, where the sale of alcohol is prohibited.

Exactly. Here in So Cali, in advance of Prop 64, many city councils have voted to forbid cannabis businesses from operating. Lynchburg Tennessee, (home of Jack Daniels) is in the county of Moore, which also happens to be a dry county. Can't by Jack in Lynchburg...lol.

I vote there is always "opportunity" in chaos, just gotta think out of the box a wee bit.
 

Skip

Active member
Veteran
Funny thing is, when I talk to growers, it seems none of them want to grow legally.
They just want to keep on doing what they're doing, feeding the market illegally.
Even though they might have money to start doing it legally, they just can't bring themselves to work within the system.

Doesn't make much sense to me. I guess it's too much work to have to deal with gov't and forms and pay taxes...

Instead they sit on ever growing piles of cash that they can't spend easily.
If you do it legally, you can spend as much as you like anyway you like and be on the right side of the law...
And if you're really business savvy you can expand as much as you can dream.

We should all be glad that with all this legalization comes LESS RISK, not only if you do it legally, but because with prices dropping and supply increasing there should be less risk of rip-offs and violence (we hope!)
 
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