Tea Article

[Microbeman]

Somebudy tell me what 'the claw' is.

Why would a goal be to starve the plants? 0-7-7 sounds like chems.

Microbes either die or go dormant if the soil becomes too dry.

 

[guest2012y]

The claw = yellow curled down new growth that doesn't green up when it should. Most likely lockout due to bad soil mixes and commonly accepted cannabis growing practice....among other things.
My guess.

 

[bearded1]

couldn't post for a while. hurt my arm couldn't even use a mouse. this is a realy good thread. I have had problems growing a stable plant. Started using EWC tea with molasses and its like night and day. saved plants that were badly dammaged and they are just going into bloom. i am a tea convert. works great.

 

[MrFista]

CT Guy - I think I am doing something backwards. I've been adding a wee bit of guano (1/4 tsp to 4 gallon) in flowering hoping to encourage microbes that process P. However, now knowing adding P discourages AM fungi, which provide the soil acidification required to make P ions available...

Should I just stick to the EWC, mycelium and molasses for flower?

 

[OgOrganics]

Hey guys, love the knowledge being shared here. I've been diluting my compost tea at a rate of 5:1 water to compost and hand watering my babies. Is this the correct rate, or should I be watering with straight compost?

 

[CT Guy]

CT Guy - I think I am doing something backwards. I've been adding a wee bit of guano (1/4 tsp to 4 gallon) in flowering hoping to encourage microbes that process P. However, now knowing adding P discourages AM fungi, which provide the soil acidification required to make P ions available...

Should I just stick to the EWC, mycelium and molasses for flower?

Mr. Fista,

I'm guessing MM can provide more info. but my understanding is this.

1. That amount of guano probably won't have much effect.

2. I haven't seen any data about using guanos in compost teas, but my inclination is to avoid it and stick to other forms of composted material for the biology we're attempting to reproduce/grow.

3. I thought the info. posted on here was that the high P inhibits colonization by the myco fungi. If it's already colonized is it going to have a dramatic effect? Would that small amount of guano be enough to make a difference?

That's all I can share on the subject.....hope it helps!

 

[CT Guy]

Hey guys, love the knowledge being shared here. I've been diluting my compost tea at a rate of 5:1 water to compost and hand watering my babies. Is this the correct rate, or should I be watering with straight compost?

Are you asking if you need to use the tea straight or are you talking about watering with straight compost? I'm a little confused, as they're different situations entirely.

If the question is only about tea, then you can add water but it's not required. Whatever will give you an even application over all your plants. For larger areas I can give you more specific rates but its sounds like you're dealing with just a few plants.

 

[MrFista]

I got the P thing backwards didn't I. It inhibits colonisation, thank you.

I got this free tub of rock phosphate, it's 100 g or so.

I didn't like the thought of adding this to my soil mix as it's a char mix, and I knew from reports of terra preta eventually my soil would require no more 'nutes' Figured my soil had P enough and the addition of tiny amounts to a tea might encourage microbes that process it. I'll stick to plant extracts and standard teas from now on, they seem safer and easier.

Maybe I should treat the garden outside with the guano, or is it proper to give tiny amounts to worms. I hate wasting stuff.

One thought on teas I've had. Have you tried chitin in teas for the fungicidal properties of organisms that devour it?

 

[OgOrganics]

Sorry for the confusion, my question is when top feeding with teas, is it necessary/beneficial to dilute the tea, or can plants handle watering with 100% tea? I have been using EWC, LK, and blackstrap molasses as my base tea, and for veg I used liquid age old grow every third watering. So far in flower I've been just adding age old bloom to the mix, watering evey time with bloom.

I'm fairly new to the compost teas, but I'm loving it so far. Thanks for the advice.

 

[CT Guy]

Sorry for the confusion, my question is when top feeding with teas, is it necessary/beneficial to dilute the tea, or can plants handle watering with 100% tea? I have been using EWC, LK, and blackstrap molasses as my base tea, and for veg I used liquid age old grow every third watering. So far in flower I've been just adding age old bloom to the mix, watering evey time with bloom.

I'm fairly new to the compost teas, but I'm loving it so far. Thanks for the advice.

Not sure about the LK or Old Grow, never tested them. But plants can handle straight tea. My recommendation would be to go at least 1:1 water to tea, if not 3:1 water to tea. Less particulate issues and you can cover more surface area. Just remember to use dechlorinated water.

 

[CT Guy]

I got the P thing backwards didn't I. It inhibits colonisation, thank you.

I got this free tub of rock phosphate, it's 100 g or so.

I didn't like the thought of adding this to my soil mix as it's a char mix, and I knew from reports of terra preta eventually my soil would require no more 'nutes' Figured my soil had P enough and the addition of tiny amounts to a tea might encourage microbes that process it. I'll stick to plant extracts and standard teas from now on, they seem safer and easier.

Maybe I should treat the garden outside with the guano, or is it proper to give tiny amounts to worms. I hate wasting stuff.

One thought on teas I've had. Have you tried chitin in teas for the fungicidal properties of organisms that devour it?

I know that trichoderma inhibits colonization, but I thought the high P did as well. MM would know. Still wonder about the effects of dormant mycorrhizal spores when they take so long to become active and infect the host roots. There's definitely a bonus for using recycled soil that has active VAM or if someone would sell the active spores commercially. The amounts you're discussing wouldn't constitute a high P application in my opinion though anyway. You could use the guano in a nutrient tea where you just mix with water to get it soluble and then apply without a brewing cycle, or just top dress.

Haven't experimented with the chitin, but I see where you're going with that one. Might be interesting to know...

 

[MrFista]

Nutirent tea, yes, it can go outside I'm going to see how long I can keep growing weed (well) in my char mix without any more ferts. It will get mulch, FPE's and teas, of course.

Once again thank you. We're getting VAM lectures now, fascinating, I love mycology.

 

[Microbeman]

Sorry for the confusion, my question is when top feeding with teas, is it necessary/beneficial to dilute the tea, or can plants handle watering with 100% tea? I have been using EWC, LK, and blackstrap molasses as my base tea, and for veg I used liquid age old grow every third watering. So far in flower I've been just adding age old bloom to the mix, watering evey time with bloom.

I'm fairly new to the compost teas, but I'm loving it so far. Thanks for the advice.

I never dilute my teas. If you wish to use the commercial ferts, apply them separate from the teas to avoid smothering the microbial life you've grown in the tea.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

Haven't experimented with the chitin, but I see where you're going with that one. Might be interesting to know...

CT Guy

The seed meal that you were kind enough to test for me contains a crab & shrimp meal (local product from the Oregon Coast) as well as neem seed meal @ 5% of the total for each item.

Just FYI

CC

 

[420247]

Okay, I'm going to try and critique this and make a few assumptions. Please don't take whatever I say personally or as an attack on your design. Like I said, I'm only speculating on what I can see from the photo. That being said, here's where I think things may have gone wrong on your brewer.

1. It looks like the compost is just hanging inside the bag. The organisms in the compost are happy where they're at and you need to add sufficient agitation to strip the microbes off the soil aggregates. This means running oxygen directly inside the bag itself.

2. I'm guessing (I can't see your motor) that you're not getting sufficient oxygen to keep the brew aerobic. .05-.08 cfm/gal of water is recommended by Microbeman.

3. I'd look to add another source of biology to your tea. Black Gold is okay, but keep in mind that it could have been sitting in a warehouse for long periods of time, or even on a pallet in the hot sun. NOT ideal conditions for microbial survival and activity. Much better if you can find a local source of worm castings that you know is fresh, or even pull from your own compost pile.

Hope that helps!

I did some upgrades

I added two 15lpm air pumps to give me about .05 cfm/gal in my four 5gal. buckets

I've added airstones to my tea bags and added quick connects

Now my shit floats sometimes LOL

I really like how "clean" the bubbles look now

Thank you for the help

 

[Tactical Farmer]

Been kinda doing my own thing which seems to be opposite of the norm, but thought I might share one of my experiments.

One thing that I found very surprising is that "myco" & bacteria grows VERY well & quickly in EXTREME levels of fertilized compost.

To be specific when I say "myco" im talking about Trich & Ecto - since apparently Endo needs live roots to thrive.

Ive run these culture experiments several times, some N dominate & some P dominate.

The results have been the same, rapid visible fungal growth in heavy fertilized soil = 1/2 compost to 1/2 dry fert mix.

Ive even moistened them with only undiluted liquid (Earth Juice, etc) & the beneficials thrived in it.

That was on day 3 - both fungal dominate - left is with no nutes - right is with ALOT of nutes.

But now after a week the left no nute has mellowed out & the nuted ones are taking off with different types.

The far right is the bacterial dominate - its got a different look going with some blues & greens.

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=179374&highlight=fungi

 

[Suby]

Fuck I missed you guys. :friends:

 

[spurr]

Been kinda doing my own thing which seems to be opposite of the norm, but thought I might share one of my experiments.

One thing that I found very surprising is that "myco" & bacteria grows VERY well & quickly in EXTREME levels of fertilized compost.

To be specific when I say "myco" im talking about Trich & Ecto - since apparently Endo needs live roots to thrive.

I have serous doubts that you are growing ecto, and even if you had host roots high P would stop endo.

Ive run these culture experiments several times, some N dominate & some P dominate.

The results have been the same, rapid visible fungal growth in heavy fertilized soil = 1/2 compost to 1/2 dry fert mix.

Sorry to say, but the "fungi" in your pics ain't any type of ectomyorrhizal fungi AFAIK, it looks like cobweb mold or some other type of mold.

The far right is the bacterial dominate - its got a different look going with some blues & greens

"greens"...I bet dollars to donuts that is trichoderma, not bacteria. Trich is green, aka "mean green" to mushroom farmers...

 

[Tactical Farmer]

I have serous doubts that you are growing ecto, and even if you had host roots high P would stop endo.

I got a good feeling that it is indeed Ectomyco as a small nug of it added to teas will grow caps in 3 days (inside bubbling tea)

Here is some culture added to the worm bin.

Sorry to say, but the "fungi" in your pics ain't any type of ectomyorrhizal fungi AFAIK, it looks like cobweb mold or some other type of mold.

This is what was added to activate the culture so I doubt this is "cobweb mold".

Piranha contains

EctoMycorrhiza:
Pt (Pisolithus)
Rhizopogon amylopogon
Rhizopogon Villosuli
Rhizopogon fulvigelba
Rhizopogon luteolus
Laccaria laccata
Laccaria bicolor
Scleroderma cepa
Scleroderma citrinum
Pisolithus tunctorius

EndoMycorrhiza:
Glomus mosseae
Glomus intraradices
Glomus clarum
Glomus monsporus
Glomus deserticola
Glomus brasilianum
Glomus aggregatum
Gigaspora margarita

Trichoderma:
Trichoderma polysporum
Trichoderma imbricatum
Trichoderma pardinum
Trichoderma zelleni
Trichoderma flavouirens
Trichoderma harzianum
Trichoderma koningii
Trichoderma viride

"greens"...I bet dollars to donuts that is trichoderma, not bacteria. Trich is green, aka "mean green" to mushroom farmers...

I grown shrooms before so im familiar with the trich (which is the gray fuzzy type in the far left pic) it will turn green when its at the end of its growth but the right pic is bacterial growth which was given Tarantula (57 types of beneficial bacteria).

Im just saying..

 

[CT Guy]

Tactical,

I know that in our compost bins when I add baby oatmeal or alfalfa meal, I'll get a white/gray fuzzy growth in a day or so. I couldn't tell you the exact species, but I've found it to be a benign mold that I just mix back into the pile. Not saying this is the same as what you have, but just my personal experience.

If you want to be completely scientific about it, I'd think you'd want to start with a sterile media and inoculate with a product that is only ecto. Does cannabis even have an ecto relationship? I thought it was strictly endo?

Did you know that you can get essentially a pirahna equivalent from Mycorrhizal Applications for much less $, as they just formulate that for AN, who slaps a fancy label on it and jacks up the price?

What you have at the end may contain a lot of beneficial biology anyway, even if it's not strictly what you thought it was (though it may be, I can't really comment to this regard).

~CT

PS: While we're on the subject, I'm inclined to agree with MM on the subject of baby oatmeal in that more research needs to be done to show that the oat flour grows a BENEFICIAL species of fungi. It's been proven that you get rapid fungal growth, but I have yet to see any data to show that the particular species most adept at consuming this food source will give real-life plant benefit. Just a side thought....though MM has shown it to increase bacterial-feeding nematodes, which is a benefit in and of itself in relation to nutrient cycling.