Tea Article

[Clackamas Coot]

I screwed up a stainless-steel sprayer because I thought she did and she thought I did on the cleaning thing. We were getting ready to go to the Oregon Coast for a few days and I hit the soil with 1 gallon to each plant (only 4) and I added yucca extract as a surfactant.

Well - it certainly did get all 'surfactanty' and all - there was bio-film in the inside of the tank from top to bottom - and thick. Then there was the hose and solid brass wand and nozzle. I could not get everything clean like you would want. I was furious with myself for making such a basic mistake.

I ended up buying a new one (same model) and tossed the bad one in the trash. Lesson learned.

CC

 

[SecretGardener]

Hey, don't feel bad for posting. It's just good to post a source for where you got the info. I've tested the vegetable oil (I think we actually worked with Dr. E in the beginning in discovering this).

Personally, I don't consider it a good or bad sign as to the quality of your tea. Smell is a much better indicator if you don't have a microscope. Some of my best teas under the microscope never foamed at all, and some of the worst (almost completely devoid of life) had HUGE foam!

I typically just recommend the veggie oil so you don't have an overflowing of the bucket. Typically as little as a teaspoon will cure it.

This makes perfect sense in my case CT Guy! My tea's (EWC+Molasses) never foam in the first 42 hours. I inspect them with my microscope and see positive results. When the tea gets to around 60 hours it starts to foam, the longer i let it go (I never use a tea after 42 hours) the more foam appears. I have yet to look at it past 60 hours under the scope though, but I suspect I will find less biology?

 

[h.h.]

yucca = massive foam from my experiences as well.

Yucca tea (Joshua tree)

 

[jaykush]

i used to use Yucca whipplei

 

[420247]

This makes perfect sense in my case CT Guy! My tea's (EWC+Molasses) never foam in the first 42 hours. I inspect them with my microscope and see positive results. When the tea gets to around 60 hours it starts to foam, the longer i let it go (I never use a tea after 42 hours) the more foam appears. I have yet to look at it past 60 hours under the scope though, but I suspect I will find less biology?

interesting info... for me the ewc/kelp/molasses/humic acid tea foams the least, and the ones with ferts foam alot... (all the teas in the pics I posted are at 24 hours with the bag in, and bubbled for 12 hours with humic acid before the bag went in... Dr E wrote is would break down chloramines... ?)

 

[h.h.]

i used to use Yucca whipplei

That'll work. Down and dead of course, off of private property.
Palm tree has the same qualities. Think of coco without all the sea salt.
Desert plants that retain water. Fibrous on the inside with an almost cork like bark to keep the water in. When down and "dead" they provide an excellent atmosphere for microbial desert life. A high saponin content aids in this process. Aloe vera. I think cactus would work as well.
The bark tends to break down slowly and makes a great soil cover.
Burnt, it leaves a very white ash, that is very soluble, which in my non scientific view means potassium.
These are the things that keep the desert alive and keep my plants happy as well.

 

[SecretGardener]

interesting info... for me the ewc/kelp/molasses/humic acid tea foams the least, and the ones with ferts foam alot... (all the teas in the pics I posted are at 24 hours with the bag in, and bubbled for 12 hours with humic acid before the bag went in... Dr E wrote is would break down chloramines... ?)

Interesting...found this on wiki

Chloramines are often an unwanted side product of oxidation reactions of organic compounds (with amino groups) with bleach. The reduction of chloramines back into amines can be carried out through a mild hydride donor. Sodium borohydride will reduce chloramines, but this reaction is greatly sped up with acid catalysis. source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloramine

 

[CT Guy]

This is what I diluted and bottled in the spray bottle at 1 quart to 1 gallon

Okay, I'm going to try and critique this and make a few assumptions. Please don't take whatever I say personally or as an attack on your design. Like I said, I'm only speculating on what I can see from the photo. That being said, here's where I think things may have gone wrong on your brewer.

1. It looks like the compost is just hanging inside the bag. The organisms in the compost are happy where they're at and you need to add sufficient agitation to strip the microbes off the soil aggregates. This means running oxygen directly inside the bag itself.

2. I'm guessing (I can't see your motor) that you're not getting sufficient oxygen to keep the brew aerobic. .05-.08 cfm/gal of water is recommended by Microbeman.

3. I'd look to add another source of biology to your tea. Black Gold is okay, but keep in mind that it could have been sitting in a warehouse for long periods of time, or even on a pallet in the hot sun. NOT ideal conditions for microbial survival and activity. Much better if you can find a local source of worm castings that you know is fresh, or even pull from your own compost pile.

Hope that helps!

 

[420247]

Okay, I'm going to try and critique this and make a few assumptions. Please don't take whatever I say personally or as an attack on your design. Like I said, I'm only speculating on what I can see from the photo. That being said, here's where I think things may have gone wrong on your brewer.

1. It looks like the compost is just hanging inside the bag. The organisms in the compost are happy where they're at and you need to add sufficient agitation to strip the microbes off the soil aggregates. This means running oxygen directly inside the bag itself.

2. I'm guessing (I can't see your motor) that you're not getting sufficient oxygen to keep the brew aerobic. .05-.08 cfm/gal of water is recommended by Microbeman.

3. I'd look to add another source of biology to your tea. Black Gold is okay, but keep in mind that it could have been sitting in a warehouse for long periods of time, or even on a pallet in the hot sun. NOT ideal conditions for microbial survival and activity. Much better if you can find a local source of worm castings that you know is fresh, or even pull from your own compost pile.

Hope that helps!

No worries man LOL I'd expect I did something a lil off due to me having never done this before LOL Like I've said I'm still in my first week of poop juice making hahaha

Thank you for the info and I'm going to try to apply it 8^)

 

[420247]

Interesting...found this on wiki

Thank you

 

[Clackamas Coot]

This company sells an 'aerated compost tea extractor' which creates AACE!!!

What's an extractor anyway?

Just curious.

CC

 

[420247]

This company sells an 'aerated compost tea extractor' which creates AACE!!!

What's an extractor anyway?

Just curious.

CC

(from www.biologicsystemsusa.com) 15-gallon system for making and spraying premium-quality aerobic compost extract and AACE.

What is AACE?

That site seems a bit overpriced...

 

[Clackamas Coot]

Active Aerated Compost Extract vs. Active Aerated Compost Tea

Definitely sounds like manufacturer's hubris and little else.

CC

 

[CT Guy]

AACE is just ACT or aerated compost tea. Basically all they're doing is slapping new terminology on a machine that they claims can make both compost extract or aerated compost tea.

I don't see a diffuser in their product photo so you really can't tell how the machine would perform.

Not sure what the advantage of "Big Bubble" aeration would be! That's a new one. So now we have brewers on the market with "micro bubbles" and one with "big bubbles?"

Don't see any research on the site to support the quality of their brewers.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

Micro bubbles = Growing Solutions.

Heh..................

CC

 

[CT Guy]

I just think it's funny that they both claim opposite bubble size to prove the superiority of their systems. I think the ideal system incorporates different size bubbles. We used that design in our 500 gal system and it makes the best tea. It also uses a longer and flatter tank, rather than tall and narrow, which I believe helps with DO levels.

 

[Microbeman]

This is definitely well below the technology level of a liquid compost extractor which makes (LCE). LCE is a straight extract using no foods and does not require air. It uses 10% compost by volume of water. The equipment strips microbes in mostly dormant state and the liquid can be stored for several days before use. The idea is that the microbes wake up in the soil and/or when fed.

I have a design for a very low cost extractor which would market for around $2K if sold.

 

[Microbeman]

I posted this over in the thread on spirulina algae, but I figured since this is the official tea article I should post it here as probably more important and interesting than the spirulina in it is the inclusion of what the product calls NSO's (Natural Soil Organisms) and many of them in fact.. It would be interesting to see how this can be used beneficially in the making of teas, I wonder if it would have any effect or even possibly profound effects on the soil? I want to know if the benefits of this mix is only good for people or if i should use it in my general garden tea brews..

anyways the product is a wholefood supplement for people, it's supposed to be all inclusive protein vitamins and minerals.. anyways the ingredients:


Vitamineral Green

(100% RAW and organic/wild superfoods):

Land Vegetables:
Whole Leaf Barley Grass, Whole Leaf Wheat Grass, Nettle Leaf, Shavegrass (Horsetail), Alfalfa Leaf Juice, Dandelion Leaf Juice, Kamut® Grass Juice, Barley Grass Juice, Oat Grass Juice, Burdock Root, Broccoli Juice, Kale Juice, Spinach Juice, Parsley Juice, Carob Pod, Ginger Root, Nopal Cactus, Amla Berry

Algaes:
Spirulina and Broken Cell Wall Chlorella

Wildcrafted Aquatic Vegetables:
Icelandic Kelp and Nova Scotia Dulse

Enzymes: (optimum absorption, cleansing +)
Amylase, Lipase, Protease, Cellulase, Bromelain, Papain

Comprehensive Probiotic Mixture - Beneficial Organisms. Includes Exclusive NSO™ :

(Natural Soil Organisms) and Implantable Species:
A. Agilis, L. Acidophilus, R. Arrhizus, DDS-1 Acidophilus, Bifidus, L. Bulgaricus, A. Brasilienese, B. Brenis, P. Chrysosporium, A. Citreus, L. Casei, P. Calcis, S. Cellulasae, P. Denitrificans, S. Faecium, S. Fradiae, P. Flourescens, A. Globiformis, S. Griseoflavus, P. Gelatic, B. Lipolyticum, A. Luteus, A. Lipoferum, A. Lwolfii, B. Laterosporous, P. Marinoglutinosa, , B. Macerans, P. Nigraclens, P. Putida, L. Plantarum, B. Pumilus, B. Polymyxa, B. Stationis, L. Salivarius, B. Subtilus, B. Succinogenes, A. Simplex, B. Subtilus, S. Thermopolis , A. Terreus, M. Verrucaria, T. Viride. , K. Zopfit.

There is potential benefit, using algae microbes in ACT and indeed some grow in it naturally but I have not investgated this so as making me uncomfortable with commenting. All I can say is 'try it.'

PS. Most of these bacteria are likely already in compost and ACT.

 

[MrFista]

Includes Exclusive NSO™ :

I hate this. Why are these bacteria able to be trademarked? Ridiculous.

 

[nikoncherie]

CT guy, Burn One, Clackamas Coot.. thanks guys for all the effort I’ve learned a ton from this forum (i'm a newbie)

I have ‘the claw’ on some clones that have been in the ground for 3 weeks. They were in poor shape when I planted them then came around. Running LC’s mix #1 and basic AACT of EWC, Humic Acid and Cal Mag and feeding with General Organics bio root. The purple stems changed to green and there was lots of new growth.

Next came “the claw” – I did foliar spray of azamax for bugs and
I’m afraid I fed too much or maybe watered too much or maybe just too much azamax. According to my friends you should starve the plants between feedings.. If this is the case, then I watered way too much.. like 2-3 times a week. After I noticed the problem I stopped my feeding/watering schedule.

Now it’s been one week with no nutes or AACT or anything. The claw is about the same still but the plants continue to grow. The moisture meter says they are still ‘wet’ except for the smart pots which are reading more toward the dry end.

From all of this my question comes up about watering/feeding frequency. If the goal is to starve the plants so they’ll take up the nutes, then should I be watering with AACT between feedings? Would I be better to wait until they’re dry then add more nutes? Does the microherd die off when the soil dries out? Should I mix EWC with my nutrients on the feeding days? Should I be adding nutes like 0-7-7 to fix the claw?

Thanks