TAG - Landing (Resource for True Aero Growing)

[Guest]

I guess its been reduced to this huh?Ok,not only can I achieve what your doing but,Ill do it in soil.Heres a 1800 watt soil grow from about a year ago....








Notice that is a full size mag lite in that last pic.



And since then Ive changed to a Aerojet 36 plant system.Im still in the process of tweaking it but,have it pretty much down.I dont take many pics anymore.My current grow is a mix of Blue Heaven,Super Skunk,and Widow under 1800 watts.I may take some pics tonight just for you.........heres the kind of growth I get in this system.These three pics were taken over a 6 day period.









No bullxxxx,no long drawn out theories,no requests for respect,I just grow.If I have a problem it gets solved,simple.

 

[Guest]

That is great Down Cast, however, I'm trying to help others solve their problems, not just my own and keep it to myself, I suppose I could do that as well, but it really doesn't make for a very informative thread now does it?

Again, I'm not here just to show off my grow and brag what I could pull off with a soil grow using nothing but my amazing bullshit to fertilize it. I am attempting to actually educate and help others and sometimes it takes a little more than just telling them what to do to fix their problems, as you can see for yourself. I often have to back it up with long ass theories and analogies as not everyone is quite as amazing as you think you are.

Can we get a better look at those leaves close up Down Cast? Long blurry shots of green are easy to fake out on your flawless leaves...I'd like to see the detail shots if you can muster the energy to contribute a little more? Something more like this.



anyone can post shows like this...

 

[Guest]

8 plants.. hehe. I've been doing 26 in this area in tubes. I may do the same amount as before. They are on appox. 9" centers.

If I run DWC method I don't think I have any reason for a 2nd rez. I made a cut out area of the box to access the water..

I'll put a removable lid w/handle over that small part. I had a 40 gal rez before and it covered about 1/3 of the floor space and was 12" deep so divided by 3 I would have approx 4" of water on the bottom assuming I run a full 40 gal.

The floor has a slight slope so the pump pick ups will be deepest.

I'll look into a liner. The only thing I would have a prob with is where the lines go through the bottom side of the tub and into the next room, I would have to make holes in the liner for that and figure a way to leak proof it back up.

Thanks for the tips

 

[Guest]

I did have problems later in the grow but they were insignificant.And considering it was my first hydro grow ever,I did well.

 

[Guest]

That is the purpose for the bulkhead fitting. It can compress the rubber washer between a piece of wood or plastic and your liner and the other side is a connection you can change if need be.

The res in the DWC is a great idea, just becareful as I have found it is hard to keep the temps down in the res with set ups like that, and you really can not afford to have your res above 78F, it is very dangeous. I used to incorporate that method as you know, but have never been able to drop my temps below 78 without evap or external res and trying to get into check the ppms and ph on a reg basis becomes a major hassel.

26 huh...lol

k

We'll see.

These are 3 Oasis in a FAG



Down Cast - well appears obvious that you don't need any asistance so are you here to help by explaining how you maintain your grow, or just to critize me personally as I desire to discuss something beside how terrific you are? 10 pictures in your gallery...that is it? You are hanging out in our thread talking shit for what reason? Just to talk shit? Or are you going to attempt to be part of the team and actually get down to explaining your own heuristic experience with aero? I'm thrilled for you, but that doesn't really help the 20 others asking for advice, nor does it illustrate how to solve anything other than that you can grow plants in soil and a FAG setup, we can all do that.

And like I said before, and I'd wish you'd take my advice for just this once, if you don't like the way I present my information or my replies, just use that cute little ignore feature and you'll never have to see me again. Think how more relaxed and enjoyable your life would be, not to mention my own. Its ok, I don't mind if you put me on ignore...really. :wink:

 

[Guest]

Ah, I see.... the bulkhead fitting I guess can be found at west marine. I'll look there.

I have two lines going through the wall under the waterline. One for the pump so the inlet is flooded= quiet pump (another nice tip I kept in mind :wink: ) and the other is for the chiller.


So you think I'm gonna find a small Amazon forrest mess in there?? Uh oh, lol.. I can't wait.

- Gro

 

[Guest]

I hope so...lol

I didn't realize you had a chiller, that will help a great deal.

I'm not trying to convince you out of anything, it is nice build out, just trying to bullproof it with all the shit I know can go wrong. Trust me it is far easier to 'pre-disaster' a rig than deal with it in full flower. But you look like you got it all covered.

The 9" on center is fine, if you grow more of the sickle style you'll probably see better yields. I have just found like I said with the Widow that in a 2x4 area 8 plants will fill it packed. From what I see of your build, if I'm right, its like 2x8 feet...a good 16 would pack it solid, 26...yikes...you can try it, not saying it wont work..just seem like a bit much.

The WonderTwins ran with 16, here is a FAG grow of 2 Oasis (you just saw them full flower up there with the cola can) and 2 Skunk 1# in 23 days of not TAG.


The three Oasis at the end...



Now like I said, that is only a FAG.
The left side of the Wondertwins with 8 Widows
4x2 basic foot print



Oh,...btw, only 4 are Widow in here...4 were bubble skunk mix as well.
The big buds are all the 4 Widows.



Just like now Vader looks pretty empty, but he is pretty much over stocked with 11 sights per panel 2x4. By the time he is finished you probably wont be able to see the top of the rig.



It doesn't seem like they could get that big in 2 months...but you just wait and see. This is why we are all so addicted to TAG. Its a great game.

 

[Guest]

LoL,your very humerous.Well Ive gotten that all off my chest now so you wont hear another word about yourself.

Id like to explain why Im here.A couple weeks ago I was dealing with a root issue and it occured to me that the system I was using wasnt truely aeroponic.As I was searching for info I came across this thread.I thought to myself,great,someone who has some experience with true aero and actual systems shown being constructed and tested.Then I started reading and the way you presented your info was what put me off.And thats why were where we are.Ive got nothing against you and Ill end it right here.

Anyways,whatever,Ill do my best to contribute to this thread any way I can.In saying that,I think your over analyzing the situation.I think there is plenty of K in your solution to support those plants.Plants dont need a specific ratio of nutes in solution,they need a supply of nutes and they take the ratio they need.If you have too high a ppm or too low,then you will have problems.Not enough NPK or to little NPK and you have problems.The ratio is more or less an attempt to only supply what they will use.A ratio of 1-1-1 will work just as well as another ratio,the plants just wont use it so why put it in there.

Im not sure exactly what the problem is with your system.To be honest I cant read through all that info to extract your growing conditions.Ill take a look and see what I can find.Seeing that my system isnt true aeroponics,I really cant say.It is similar though.Maybe you could do a summary of what your growing conditions are and the problem youre having?I get so sidetracked by the other stuff I didnt pay much attention.

 

[JustATry]

GroNut - nice looking rig man! I am running 25 of the Toro Ag foggers per 4x4 footprint, so 100 in all. They are something like 1.9 GPH each.

I might steer you towards a smaller rez. I just swapped out my 55 gallon for a 15 gallon. The extra volume is nice for stability, but it's overkill. Especially considering you are using 1-2 gallons per cycle, JMHO. I have the same chiller as you and it was having a hard time keeping everything in check. Now with this 15 gallon I keep the rez @ 65, that gives me 68 rhizosphere temps.

I just finished resetting my timer and return bucket so there wasn't any more standing water. The temps were rising too fast in the standing water and not allowing ample time for the chiller to drop temps back down. A couple extra pegs in my cycle timer fixed that.

I would also use a pond liner, just to be safe, unless you were planning on using some glass as well. If you are, then you should be fine.

 

[Guest]

Down Cast - There isn't any problem with my rig now. That is my point. I've solved my own problem with no help as well, but I've also documented my problem and discussed it with others that share the same issues. Now it is fixed and I've shared 'my' solution and what the reasoning is behind 'my' solution, which just happens to be what the experts in the field are finding as well.

I'm sorry you don't subscribe to the N:K and Mg:Ca ratio nonsense, as you haven't run a True Aero yet it sounds, that is a little presumptuous of you to assume it will be the same.

As you can see, even with the worst of lock out and def you can still get liter sized colas from any aero rig, which wasn't the point of TAG. TAG was created to build the 'ideal' true aero grow with all the known information applied.

Again, sorry you are so stubborn on these issues, but most are and you'll find for yourself when you run your first real TAG.

You were looking for someone that has some experience with true aero and actually systems shown being constructed and tested...well...you found him. Sorry he wasn't the Wiz of Oz you expected but just a man behind the curtain working the magic. I'm not here to be venerated as your humble teacher, I'm here as one of the only few people growing pot in a true aero environment.

You can either take my advice or not, I don't care, just don't keep talking shit about how I don't know what I'm doing or what is wrong with my true aeroponic rig. I know what was wrong with it and "I" fixed it.

You'll find if you run your 1-1-1 ration in a TAG that you'll not see the same results you got in soil or even FAG. There isn't any medium or opportunity for plants to 'make up' the defs as they aren't soaking or sitting in the nutes. But...you'll find out for yourself and when you are sitting there with massive K def. you can reflect on what that asshole had to say and maybe go back and re-read all that bullshit and fix your own problem.

The ratios aren't my invention, they have already been established and authenticated for true aero. If you do some internet searches on it you'll find I'm once again, correct.

But like I said, don't take my word as the person that created the TAG concept or put all these FYI threads together for the past 2 years, go out and find out for yourself. Not a problem, just leave my ass alone if you can't just ask a civil question or can't respond without a personal assault first.

I don't really believe you have anything to offer me education wise so I'm not really too interested in what you have to say, nothing personal, you just don't appear to have a better grasp than I on this subject, maybe its the 10 pictures and lack of any contributing information on nutrient profiles, environments or building.

You might have something to contribute to others here, but I'll have to add my 2¢ as most of these people have been watching my grows and my threads and are asking me for my advice not you. And if you supply incorrect information based on systems you've not even used yet, well...I'll have to correct that as well, being someone that is currently using the systems.

That is all, can we quit now? K. I'm done too.

I too am running with about 20 gallons for my 4x7 table. It is best to always have the water moving as it keeps the nasties at bay.

My only issue was using a 10 gallon bucket for the return to the pump. My pump would drain all the bucket and start to suck air just as it was finishing the cycle. So I added my EvapPod which is only about 1/4 filled. It is enough to do it all and keep it stable, but you don't need shitloads of water yet...

But JAT I'd be careful, I've (in late flower) had to add like 3-4 gallons a day in heavy flower. So if it is too small you might run out faster than you think. He is talking 26 TAG girls...that is my biggest run and I was running with about 40 gallons then. Never hurts to have stablility in a system especially if you want a day off.

 

[JustATry]

I agree, stability is good, but in my situation that large rez just wasn't working for me. Cool root temps are more important than stability at this point.

I need to get a larger scrubber to push out more air. I am thinking a Can100 w/ a 850cfm fan. It's starting to get a little warm in there about 8 hours into the cycle - 78-82. I am sure this is contributing to the warmer temps I was seeing.

 

[Vishnus_Crystal]

Hey all - I am here... No show at current but I am watching and waiting.

Glad to see you here!!!

 

[Guest]

Glad 2 C you back my old friend.

JAT - I still don't know why you don't incorporate an evap cooler..it would be so easy for you and fix that problem toot sweet.

 

[Guest]

JAT, thanks for the info. It looks like you're at about 2.97 gph of aerosol flow per ft and my plan puts me at 3.17 so that should work. I didn't really know what to shoot for, just wanted a reference or starting point.

Pod, you got me scared now.. lol, I might notch it back by a few plants to start. I know you're not trying to talk me out of anything, I appreciate your input. I just don't need these ladies busting the doors down..

To keep water moving I'll use the pump that runs the chiller (400gph) I'll pull from the deeper end of the tub and return it at the other so I'll get a little cross flow from that. If the roots just go crazy and fill the floor this could cause some standing water. We'll see.

Gro

 

[Guest]

That probably wont be an issue as much as just keeping your temps down. The priority here, like JAT stated, is root temps. AM dies above 82F, so you must always endevor to keep your root temps below that...I try not to ever let mine get above 78F as a safeguard, but closer to 70 is always better.

Currently I'm running at 72F and the water feels very chilly to me. You just don't want it warm like a bog, as that will be what you'll grow if it is.

The roots see some evap cooling themselves from the nozzles, but the light's UV radiation is usually the issue early on as it penetrates the plant support area and warms the water with radiant energy from your lamp. As long as those temps stay under 78 it isn't a big issue that the water isn't rushing around, I just find that it excellerates cooling and keeps those 'rafts' of gunk from showing up. Everybody keeps working like in the Ocean. The water is always clear because it is never at rest.

What strain are you running this time Gronut?

 

[Guest]

Gonna run NYC diesel. I have two mothers to use. One grows like hell.. puts a couple inches more on per week than the other so these will likely get topped. I'll leave the other as is. I plan on vegging them until 6" tall or so and see how they go.

I want to take cuttings now and start but If I do you know what will happen... the rig won't be done in time so I figure if the clones aren't ready the rig will go together smooth and be ready.. lol.

I live near the Pacific so I get cool marine air. It's pretty nice, only a handful of days in summer get over 80 with most days in low 70s. The ocean really keeps the temps stable. I was also thinking of making a two layer top using ply with a layer of that insulating styrofoam on top to keep the lights from beating on the top too bad.

Thanks for the help man..

 

[JustATry]

VC - nice to see you again brother.

GroNut - no problem.

PR - evap cooling on what, my tables?!?!

 

[Guest]

No from your lights. You should recirc your lamp heat through a evap and drop the room temps while raising the humidity slightly. Your AC will work more efficiently and your room will balance easier than just trying to rid yourself of all the heat.

Think balance Heat = Cool, if you can get a loop that is almost a full 'circle' you'll have little effort maintaining your TAE.

Everyone always forgets that the plants themselves have an impact and receive growing signals from their environment. Do not forget that when you remove just the heat there is an imbalance as you are only removing water and heat...

You should return moisture and cool to the loop to satisfy the equation and the plants. Remember they respire in response to the environment.

 

[Guest]

Circles are flawless by definition

Circles are flawless by definition

Ærocanna stuff

Understanding potential energy or E. In a system, or an orbit like our own solar system the energy it takes to maintain a stable 'orbit' and not plunge into the sun or fling out into outer space must be equal in a vacuum. This E is measured by its potential as the more elliptical and erratic the orbit (think environment for TAE) the more E is necessary to maintain that orbit.

The ideal state is at the lowest potential energy as this takes the least amount of energy to maintain. Our Earth is a perfect example, as it is almost a perfect circle around the sun. As such, it can maintain its orbit with the least amount of effort or energy in. Whereas Pluto, for example, must exert a tremendous amount of energy to remain in orbit around the sun.



The point of potential E is that the more out of balance your system is the more E (energy, effort) you'll have to add to offset that imbalance.

Just like with TAG, if the TAE is perfect the canopy matches the root ball in almost exact balance.

This is why I suggest the use of Evaporative cooling...as your room, a micro environment like Earth, needs to have all its elements returned as much as possible. Otherwise it will take added Energy to maintain, where just thinking more cleverly would allow an individual to almost maintain without any addition.

Like my room is now, as I have almost (And will be building tomorrow) a complete circular pattern through my ventilation my Room temps and Root Temps and RH stay ideal all day long. Where as if I just removed the lamp heat...it would still rise up to 78F or 80F because the air would be too dry for the AC to remove enough moisture to cool effectively.

By adding the humidity back into system before it hits the Evap Coils on the air handler, the chilled air coming back is not only cooler but moister as well. This cooler moister air sucked through the HID has much more cooling impact on the HID assembly and is in perfect balance to be returned to the EvapPod where it picks up any imbalance and returns to the same accelerated loop.

I'm currently running 74/70 48% with no chiller, nothing other than a lamp blower and blower to move the air in a circle past the air intake on the AC. That's it.

Try always to achieve the 'circle' in your systems. If not, be prepared to add a lot of extra on just one side to compensate. Its less efficient and more costly.

Circles are perfect and flawless by definition...the closer to a perfect circle you can achieve, the closer to flawless and perfect you'll find your system and its fruits.

Hope this helps someone.

Ideal balance equals ...





This one isn't balanced, but close...I don't have a perfect example, YET!

 

[JustATry]

Two problems -

No A/C
4KW's

If I ran all the heat from 4KW's through an evap unit like you have my rez temps would skyrocket! I just need to get more ventilation through the lights.