TAG - Landing (Resource for True Aero Growing)

[Guest]

At which point if you get one of those PLCs and you can have it call you or beep you to let you know your heart has stopped.

Yeah..I've seen that sludge before when I use high amounts of all that 'support' crap. Outside of HG you need so little of that in an idea TAE. If you hit the perfect TAE anything entering the environment grows just like it does in TAG—like its mutant.

That bacteria is like I stated earlier to someone's question, as you see it is either On or Off. When On they go insane until there is a balanced system, they are designed since the beginning of our planets evolution, to correct and establish a balanced 'pond' for life. So, they are just in hyper-drive making it all comfy for your totally stress-out plants...remember...the AM react in response to the plant's stress more than environmental. The drying of all that root matter was a massive shock to your TAE and now, with shitloads of help from your HG, LK and Pot+ they are ON!

They'll run their coarse, set up shop and then everything will be clear again. Just like bogs..they filter out all the toxic shit..that is there job (making life easy for others). The bio-balls will give them a home rather than trying to stick to those slick polyvinyl liners.

I had discussed at length the concept of using ruff textured interiors like 'intestines' that would allow massive surface area for the AM/Bac to set up on. See..it is just like your intestine (your water system) it is just a long internal stream with tons of folds with rough surfaces where bacteria set up shop and hang out waiting for shit (literally) to float by. If it is food for that bacteria, it grabs the elements in your digestive sludge and makes its contribution (usually breaking into another smaller element or combining into a more complex protein or sugar) which is then released into the 'plant' itself (or your body) and the waste is left behind to either recirc until eaten or flushed out the river into the sea to be washed (or toilet).

Its like you have intestines now that are slick plastic tubes that get all slimy like your tubes left in nutrient water. You're Pod has Diarrhea basically...lol Your system has the shits and is trying to 'firm it up' but has nowhere to get a foothold. Its like fighting during free-fall from a plane rather than with your legs firmly locked into a cement slab. One you have to deal with all kinds of shit and constant change, the other you have all the leverage and only have to focus on your one job.

TAE, if in range, is so ideal that just the slightest excess in the system can support any life..so your bio-mass is trying to clean up all the dead shit in the water. Your filter was the coarsest surface...so they all hopped onboard there and slow the water to kill kill kill, then it would start to flow again as the bac gets it all cleaned up. Until it can support life, it wants to stop everything and just focus on making the environment safe for 'its' host, a symbiotic relationship with the plants.

Nature in action, its the shit! literally.

 

[Guest]

This is why I don't necessarily believe you ever need to clean or sanitize your pods. Like true bio-buckets, if you keep a healthy clean system you only need to swap the nutes out every two weeks and leave all the healthy established bio-mass. It will result in much greater growth overall and support for your plants as any newly stressed plant coming into the system is greeted with an already thriving AM colony. It need only release the hormone or chemical signature and the AM bac go to work at turbo speed until the plant stops crying.

Every-time you sanitize or upset your pod's TAE they have to start all over again from scratch, which takes time and energy that you don't have to waste. That is what all the raving about Mitochondria Bacterial inoculation is all about. Its like the difference of moving your plants into soil versus aero. One will take a lot longer to establish and get going and is impeded by the medium and other root issues (DO), whereas aero is express nutrient absorption (they inject into the cell walls of the plant) and are impeded by nothing. So you see the same growth rates in comparison.

That is precisely why I lost my last grow actually JAT. Because I kept moving them from one rig to another like 4 times the Hammock never had enough time to balance its system before the plants were fucked. They just couldn't keep up with the constantly changing TAE conditions, because every-time they got to stop moving... they had to undergo that shedding and Am/Bac balancing stage first. So they were stuck in Phase One over and over again, which is why I got shit for yield.

My Widow run, that I was ignoring at the time, never got disturbed once I got the fuckin' pump rig figured out. Once it could just run non-stop for a month, BAM! There they were. But I had to keep fucking with trying to go with other's advice on draining my DWC elements and shit...and I had the best system, I ended up just fuckin' it all up. This is why I trust my insight as it has never failed me, I have the gift of being able to extract the solution to a problem before I know how my mind figured it out. There is always a very complex and logical reasoning behind it, but usually I just get the answers upfront, then start to think about it and figure out 'why' it works rather than the fact that it 'just' works.

JAT - A Dark Crystal reference? Now that IS esoteric.

 

[JustATry]

I would agree with you 100%. I think once everything is dialed in, and a colony is established, there should be no reason to do anything but dump and refill your rez. So easy - I love it!

I will order one of the PLC's next grow. I will do that when I change out all my scrubbers and switch to the 8" Cool Tube reflectors. For the time being I just ordered another pump and need to get it plumbed in.

I am still fucking pissed about that breaker, fuckin' idiot! Oh well, guess it was better to happen now that 6 weeks into flowering.

 

[Guest]

Hell yeah. lol Hence #7 of TAG - 101 Always have a back up. You are an EMT on the job, you need to know every day your client's heart is still beating and they haven't dehydrated or come unplugged from their life support system.

(JAT - I've been sitting in IM this entire time, am I doing something wrong that you are not getting my ims?)

 

[Guest]

Good Morning All:

I hate being right sometimes...lol

Since I'm about to murder this young stud I figured I'd give him a purpose like I did with my Skunk 1# males, at least you'll get to see his growth.

Damn I hate to cut these, they are so fuckin' healthy as usual.




But you can see the red lifting still more today.



The great news is this looks like it is the O"N"E!

Check it peps...not a single sign of def K, Ca, Mg or otherwise in 48 hours of ONE at 1400 ppms. Even with PH drift.

The oldest leaves:



The new growth:



Our sample Rhinoxblue:



And some others...



They look fuckin' spectacular! I am indeed impressed. Good I love smart people!

For those that question the power of TAG - I told you it is possible to achieve Tip 2 Tip perfection without a single sign of disease or deficiency.

You can not grow plants like this in any other way and achieve such immaculate examples of these plants. It is just amazing and I've still not even got it dialed in yet. This is just the pre-flight. I'm getting my towels and locking the doors, I think I'm going to be in for some serious porn here in the next month. WhooYahhh!

 

[Guest]

I mean, I don't think I can do much better than this at this point:





Current TAE: Room Temp 76, Root temp 73.9 RH 39% PPMs 1780 Ph ? (meter is fucked) So..there you go kids. Its a winner!

 

[Guest]

MY Score 4 the Haters

MY Score 4 the Haters

Just so there is a simple line to be drawn for those that would like a pissing contest....lol Like I said, I talk shit cause I can.

Throw Down















If you want to bring it, bring it!


I like to lead by example, not bullshit :wink: TAG-VADER rules!



Now please understand my pride is to be shared not for me to be applauded. I do not post these pictures to brag — I post to legitimize my authority to teach and help others. I want everyone to have plants just like these! Everyone! Not just my smug ass. :smile:

This is a victory for the DOA! They R the Elite in Aero...don't care who it pisses off.

Long live the Ærocanna!

 

[guineapig]

you know i remember reading somewhere that Cannabis roots are used in traditional Chinese medicine as they contain some sort of alkaloid.....i'm having trouble finding the ref.....but damn if you couldn't harvest those roots and boil them in a tea and find out yourself! I love the pom-pom shot the best......to me that is root-porn and it turns me on but i am an aimless and werid fellow.....

yes they are healthy from tip to toe.....but is it not most common to see those funny tips late in flowering?.....i'm not sure......oh, and i also love to see a really thick fan leaf......too often in hydro or fake aero setups the fanleaves are paper thin.....but here they look nice and thick almost like an outdoor plant.....of course in outdoor with all the wind and dust and other particles the leaves have to bulk up just to resist these environmental factors......if you are into scientific gadgets you could get a Brix-meter and get some hard data so you could tweak your POD in the right direction based on hard data......anyway, just thought i'd stop by and see the beauty of the POD.....hope all is well in podland.....-kind regards, gp

 

[Guest]

......


Its the way you present your information that offends people,not that you present it.You present it like its always fact and with alot of ego.Just because you do some experiments doesnt make you an authority.And spewing out a bunch of pointless information doesnt impress anybody.99 percent of this thread is pointless information that noone really cares about.

You act like you invented aero or something.TAG is simply another name for aeroponics.I havent seen anything new presented here at all.The only thing new I see is the constructuion of homemade aeroponics units.It is a fact that systems are being marketed as aeroponics and really they arent.Youd think by the way you talk your enlightening people to the existence of aeroponics.Lemme tell yea,its been around for years.

And your experimenting is hardly scientific.Just because you added K to your solution and your plants are improving doesnt mean it was the K that helped.Those plants are so freaking small that they couldnt possibly be using all the K in the solution.Theres many other possible explanations for the K problems.I see that every grow.As soon as the plants establish themselves(seedling or clones)they begin to correct themselves.

I dunno man,anything I say is gonna be ignored by yourself.Im not here to teach you anything or correct you.Itsj ust hard to sit here and listen to you and not respond.You talk about everything being out of balance........hah...your very out of balance yourself.Reread your posts.They reek of a person who is blind to themselves and thinks that what they think is always the truth.As old as you are Id think you learned that lesson already.You shouldnt ever think you know something.That just shows your ignorance,to believe you know anything.A wise man,as you obviously think you are,never thinks himself to be wise or to know anything.IF you do think you know something,trouble is on its way.Your what 36-37?I would seriously think your in college say 22-23 with the attitude you have.Why do you think you get so many people talking xxxx to you?Its not because they are jealous of you or trying to take you down a peg,its because you bring it on yourself.So everytime you xxxxx and whine about it from now on,remember your doing it to yourself.I dont expect you to relaize what Im saying.People like you only learn from disaster in their life.Your not open minded enough to listen to what Im saying.

The thing your missing here is that people dont respect you for how much you know,how much you contributed to hydroponics,how much info you can spew out about useless subjects.........its about being a decent human being.Thats much harder to do than memorize a bunch of facs about hydroponics.Its the hardest thing this world has ever faced over the thousands of years humans have been here.You want to impress us?Show us youve overcome what just about nobody in history ever has.Dont think something as easy as growing a freaking plant and tryng to impress us with your knowledge is gonna make everyone respect you.Theres always someone whos smarter and has more knowledge than you.People who can do things with their minds that you cant even comprehend.

 

[TAG-monk]

Oh My Fucking Allah r2g! i think u have just scored THE right nutriment. even in aero-tube 1400 ppm is considered HIGH. Do you are ready for write up the ultimate nuritment product setup ? Cause some thing still unclear to me, especially the use of "sweet" from botanicare that i would like ur opinion of. DM seems supper-dupper stable now, so add this organic could be nice for taste and smelling IMO but iam faaar from a scientist. not even a tagger right now >< lol. anyways ur leaves seem really really healthy, its nice to see that in TAG!

 

[Guest]

Thanks all, its just been a long victory coming for me. I've been fighting this issue for the better part of a year. To find that the application of these ratios means no more lockout and increased nutrient absorption is like finding out the new car you are buying doesn't just come with the hottest, fastest engine on the market today... it has twin turbos too boot. Like nothing can touch your ass.



Down Kast - It would honestly be nice to see someone else do some work on this thread. My original intent was to not speak much and just sit back, but it doesn't look like all those critics of my personal teaching style really want to do much more than just criticize rather than demonstrating how expert they are in their knowledge, but hey...as long as it is just a few sour apples I'll keep doing the lion's share of the work here so you don't have to, don't worry.

You should learn not to assume too much. You have been incorrect on every account to date, including when I was in college...so, I'd put my money on the fact that you are once again (heuristically) incorrect about your observation based on your own insecurities and imbalances. As I've stated...you are welcome to post pictures or your system? Let's see how healthy you plants are? Can I see your details for inspection? Maybe you'd like to contribute an essay on something of interest...at all? Other than incorrect assumptions you can't help but respond with? Because the only thing contribute to my world Debbie Downer is a major buzz kill and stealing my sunshine. Wish you could find something better to do with your time than try to parent me.

Again you incorrectly assume I even care about your approval or attendance. You'll have to excuse me if I don't bow to your 'better' judgment being 7/0. Tip 2 Tip...show me.

It really isn't a difficult decision my friend: there are two types of people that read threads. 1. The read them to be exposed to something different and challenging so they can learn something new about their world and themselves. and 2. Those the read to validate their own strongly held beliefs by finding other's support their own beliefs. They react very violently to finding otherwise as it forces them to become the 1st type or expose their own flaws.

You persist in thinking that if you can change me (which is impossible) you can rectify your own self image as being superior or at least equal. You have issues with equality...I'd hazard a guess...you are a middle child? The only boy amount sisters?

 

[Guest]

Eloquently put my friend, lol I couldn't have said that better.

You're my kinda of peps...Take it with a grain of salt, its all fuckin' bullshit at the end of the day anyhow. It isn't like there aren't more pressing issues in the world, right?


Is Ecotronics still hanging around here? I have a question about the LOGO.

 

[Dutchgrown]

There are ladies on this site, many lady growers, the comments of late in this thread are foul, nasty, and flaming, and very much unappreciated by many. My pm box is full of complaints and not just from the ladies.

If this thread is intended to be informative, would be best to lose the negative attitudes.

I suggest a few of you (you know who you are) re-read your posts, and edit your disrespectful foul language before the turbo-charged hoover is brought out to clean up this mess.

dg

 

[Guest]

Thank you DG.

I was just going to state that is what I hate so much about being distracted by the personal attacks, I returned here like twice to post something I hope is informative and useful, not to mention could save many lots of electricity and problems balancing their grow rooms.

So, if I may stroke just a little more...(j/k) I love women...especially women growers! :smile:

So here is what I intended to post about three posts ago.

I'm happy to report that my new EvapPod for my enclosed lighting rig is working better than expected. I have long since subscribed to the understanding (if you keep up with my useless information) that systems exert the least amount of energy to maintain under a perfect circular balance.

So, when designing my (Room 2 Grow) I always try to complete the circle and utilize all the environmental advantages I can.

The EvapPod is now maintaining an ambient temperature of 76F room temp, root zone 73.6F with a RH of 37% Now at the risk of getting accused of stroking it, that is a perfect TAE!



The principle is pretty simple, you just redirect the air flow from your warmest area to the res. where you blast it across the water. You need to have a small sub pump to keep the water circulating or moving. I had originally intended to have a sprinkler head in that pod spraying the water around so it would chill it down, but with just the 80 gph rio I put in there to stir the AM that is balancing that root decay I have, it is hitting the perfect pitch of low E.

The hot dry air evaporates the water mist, which draw energy out of the equation as the water changes states. It is a moderate cooling, but it runs the entire time so your water temps usually stay in the 70's regardless. With really good ventilation and recir, they can drop to the 60's as currently at lights off I'm running at a room temp now of 72F and root temps of 68.9F all night long while they carbo load and grow.

The moist cooler air that then leaves the pod is again easily chilled by further rapidly accelerating it through the recir blower (a Daytona I have running to keep the air running in a circle around the room) or it actually makes the A/C unit's job easier by applying moist cool air to the air handler where the Evap Coils remove the heat and condense the water drying the air again. The cold dry air then is returned to the grow room, where it is dumped onto the plants under the air cooled hood before it is sucked up as hot air (though, not much with that hood now) into the hood blower and sent baking through the HID returning hot dry air to the EvapPod where the cycle begins again.

The odd thing I've found is that using this system the plants seem to balance their own humidity in the room with the TAE. Like I stated earlier, the room started out much warmer and more humid yesterday, that shot of the temps was at 2 hours to lights off after a 14 hour day. With nothing else running but my home A/C set at 71F, as it is 88F outside and RH 74% and it is maintaining this level throughout the day from lights on to lights off.


And I wish people would stop kicking me when I'm down.

I had to kill one of my own today and he was the most gorgeous boy. I could cry, I hate to kill them. So, his life isn't a waste...let's check out the roots and see what is going on.



Here, again...not start shit with you Down Cast, but you can see all the lush vegetation that this perfect looking Bubble Boy has...well, here are the roots where might appear insufficient, but as you can see...support an entirely healthy plant in any ideal TAE.



All problems with leaves you'll experience are due to stress or lockout, root development in TAG is almost instantaneous its so rapid the growth and this is why there is such a sever deficit in the K, as the plant in perfect balance has only slightly more root mass than canopy — so if you want huge buds...you'll need huge pom poms.

You can see here that the AM is trying to get established and clean up the mess of dead cells that happened from drying and ph flux or what have you. They will sit in there as a muk until they get it pure white again, then they will start to shoot the hairs to feed the flowers. She is still balancing with the ONE (which I'm in love) All hail the ONE .



I mean, seriously, look at the leaves on this plant...does it appear to you I don't know what I'm talking about, or I shouldn't talk with some authority about how to solve problems in TAG?...can you do this?....would you please show me? I'd really like to see it...no shit...not pickin' a fight, ...let's see it. OK? It might just be my arrogant messed up head, but this plant is absolutely beautiful to me in its perfect form. I am amazed to be able to grow something like this with nothing but a sheet of polyvinyl, a sprinkler pump, some nutes and a light bulb in a totally artificial environment. Excuse me for being impressed with myself, I think I deserve some pride in my ability to solve my own problems without any real help. In over 3000 posts I've yet to see anyone appear on a thread and demonstrate any solution to any problem faced other than one picture of the problem and what it is. I have littered, not one, but two aeroponic website forums with about 16-17 problems with illustrated solutions, updated information, and dispelled two of the most pervasive myths surrounding aeroponic growing of pot ever. lol How much more do you need to allow me the luxury of some authority to help, considering I seem to be the only one working so diligently for the benefit of others. I wish I had time to hang out in someone else's thread and post my pictures and talk shit to them, but I'm too busy actually working here.



Should I not be happy with myself as a non-scientist? I tell you what, You match this and show me how you did it and I'll consider acting more self-effacing and modest for you. And then, you me can tell me that what I have to share is useless. Deal?

 

[Guest]

So, I take it you like your new nutes??

 

[Guest]

Very much so.
...you can judge for yourself..

 

[Guest]

Or better put...going in reverse..



Someone had asked about the use of 'Sweet' Botanicare's new carbo boost for plants. It looks like it would be very advantageous and an excellent additive if you felt you wanted more. I say go for it.

Staying within the DM family there is also: Dutchmaster Advance

Advance incorporates the first targeted use of Krebs Cycle Metabolites in hydroponic plant nutrition. These Krebs Metabolites ( selected amino acids & enzymes etc ) are designed to help induce the plant into what is termed short cycling.

The Krebs cycle performs a series of complex chemical actions, each dependent on the other to complete its part of the cycle. Once this cycle is completed it immediately begins anew. The main sites for these cycles are specialised cells called Mitochondria.

What the Dutch Master R&D team have achieved is the delivery( through supplemental nutrition ) of part of the cycle to these specialised cells. This means that the plant may not have to complete that part of the cycle and so the new cycle can, theoretically, begin quicker than it normally would. The benefits of this are enormous as the plants may then grow & develop at an accelerated rate due to increased output of energy by the plant. Plants grown with advance have shown faster growth, better flower development, larger more colourful flowers and an increase in essential oil production which is great for herbs or medicinal crops.

 

[Guest]

Happy Monday once again...

Congrats on finding success Pod, it always feels good have things go right after doing battle with probs.

I finally got some work done and quite a bit of work for a day... I will be gardening with you guys soon

Building a box is one thing but with no room around it makes it challenging. The box is 8' long, 2'-8" wide, and 2' deep. Built out of ply, I used bondo to full the gaps and smooth the seams, then started applying the epoxy goop to seal it up. This baby best treat me right cause it's gonna take a chain saw to remove it


This is the space I started from....



With limited room I had to move the air intake and some other junk to use the whole floor space. I'm running lines through the wall so I can mount the pump and chiller in the room next door.




The room is literally pack with crap from the floor to the ceiling...




After finishing up the sealing job I will be able to start plumbing. I hope it's tight because It won't be easy to find leaks.

-Gro

 

[Guest]

A couple of questions for you guys who've been here...

I can approach the rez in two ways; I can just use the bottom of the tub DWC style with a couple inches of water there or I can use a 35 gal proper rez in the room next door.

Setting up the DWC method is easy but If I use a remote rez I have no idea how to plub it to keep it full with the water level being higher than the bottom of the tub..duh.. I guess I would have to set up another pump and some type of float valve sumthin-ruther so this may be a PITA..??...

The other thing I'm trying to figure out is the total flow amount of aerosol for the space. For example: I'm thinking of using 42, 1.7 gph foggers, placed throughout the box. This gives me 71.4 gph of total aerosol flow for a 22.5' footprint or approx 3.17 gph of flow per ft.

I don't want to over saturate and lose the benefit of the small dropplet size but I want to keep the flow up and avoid dry areas.

Pod, your wonder tubs worked well, how much flow per ft did they do best at? What ya running currently?

JAT, what are you running?......

PurpleSeed?.....

Thanks a lot.. :smile:

Gro

 

[Guest]

Two tricks I see you can use that I've had to incorporate myself. First excellent build out GroNut, look awesome, good work buddy!

1. run a line with an elbow down in the res to another res on the same level in the other room. You don't need to drain your DWC area as much as just have access to moving the water from there to another res for testing and cooling. You'll find litfing the plants up to check shit a major PITA.

What I've done with Vader as the DWC res inside is only about 4" higher than my res on the floor is set it up on a sheet of wood and run a drain from the bottom to the res. There is always about 2" of water in the very bottom of my rig, but the res is about 6" deep. Also I had to move to a bigger res as the bucket would drain too quickly when the pump triggers. This way the return water forces the older water back into the res to be mixed by the small rio and get air cooled away from the rig.

The further you can move your res from your rig and heat the better..you can also use copper pipe to aid in cooling the mix by leeching heat.

2. Is to put a small riser in the floor of your DWC area, so the the water level will drain out into the external res. I put a few sheets of foam board to elevate the liner to allow a better drainage.

I don't know if you had planned to use a liner, but you should, even with the epoxy, IMHO. I'd use the liner and a bulkhead attachment with a rubber washer (works great against leaks) and run it out to the other room. You can then have your exhaust line run across the surface to chill as well.

Those are my two thoughts for now.

I was running about 15-20 xl foggers per tub. That is about 1/4 gallon each cycle. 32 gph, but running only 30 seconds. Using the XL foggers you can't really 'oversaturate' as the fog is almost entirely 50µ, so don't be too concerned with that.

You can keep your res profile pretty low, about 12-18" is sufficent for root zone.

How many plants are you growing? 8?