T5 vs LED for mothers

[Finepointcanon]

Hi guys, it's been forever since I've asked questions here. (or grown seriously)

I live in Thailand, and I'd like to keep some flo x otm and f13 x temple flo in veg indoors until the rainy season winds down and then stick them outside to flower to avoid mold. I've got a ton of wild thai sativa seeds to throw in the ground now.

When I last grew I loved my 5 bulb t5 for perpetual veg, but nowadays it seems that everywhere I look people are using LEDs and getting great results.

What's the consensus nowadays, my new place has no AC as well, so any extra degrees will be felt.

Thanks everyone!

 

[DARKSIDER]

Hi guys, it's been forever since I've asked questions here. (or grown seriously)

I live in Thailand, and I'd like to keep some flo x otm and f13 x temple flo in veg indoors until the rainy season winds down and then stick them outside to flower to avoid mold. I've got a ton of wild thai sativa seeds to throw in the ground now.

When I last grew I loved my 5 bulb t5 for perpetual veg, but nowadays it seems that everywhere I look people are using LEDs and getting great results.

What's the consensus nowadays, my new place has no AC as well, so any extra degrees will be felt.

Thanks everyone!

Nice to see you posting finepointcanon living in thailand is part of the dream one day i have, and yes i agree t5s are good for perpetual veg, its what i use to do but now i keep my mothers and my veg plants under a 120watt led not turned right up either try to keep them small i do until needed, sometimes hard work. but worth it then they go under 1440 watts of brilliant white leds i say brilliant as i just love them after going from hps to led one of the best turnarounds i think i ever did,,.. led for the win for me vs t5. ps good luck with the rainy season thats one thing i wont miss hope you get where youre going to in this small world and i dont envy you trying without ac as the heat is a killer at times compared to most places as you well know but it can be done im guessing, best of luck..

 

[goingrey]

Watt for watt LED is way better than fluorescent. And watts = heat.

 

[mexweed]

fluorescent tubes, especially the smaller "grow light" ones and not the bigger shop light ones, burn out pretty quick, and the fluorescent reflectors/hoods are pretty pricey

 

[Cerathule]

in your climate LED all the way, saves you many bucks in the long run as well

 

[Ca++]

I wouldn't be buying new T5 fittings. If you already have them though, then I wouldn't be chucking them away either. IIRC the T5 is knocking on the door of 120lm/w. About what the amazon rubbish might deliver. Most of the garden flood lights are lower still. It's only where manufacturers have made a decent effort, that LED is going to surpass that 120lm/w mark. So we are really looking at hundreds of dollars to move from working T5 to better LED. Which is money that might be better spent of electricity until the T5 claps out. Be aware the T5 has just months left before it can't be sold in the UK anymore. I think the EU are doing the same. So it's not a light with a bright future.


It's hard to weigh up. The $300 LED replacement might save half the electric bill, but if it's dead in 6 years, it might not of really saved anything. I would need some real numbers to make an informed decision. However, there seems no rush to change lights, or any reason to delay the change. It's this balancing act that has seen LED replace T5 in a legally binding fashion though, so crack on with your T5, but keep looking at the LED market. I wouldn't buy new T5 tubes in advance of them going out of production. Some of the better lighting manufacturers are making LED T5 style retrofit lamps. So when your tubes are shot, you can make it an LED fitting very easily. If it's a light packaging you like using.

 

[goingrey]

I wouldn't be buying new T5 fittings. If you already have them though, then I wouldn't be chucking them away either. IIRC the T5 is knocking on the door of 120lm/w. About what the amazon rubbish might deliver. Most of the garden flood lights are lower still. It's only where manufacturers have made a decent effort, that LED is going to surpass that 120lm/w mark. So we are really looking at hundreds of dollars to move from working T5 to better LED. Which is money that might be better spent of electricity until the T5 claps out. Be aware the T5 has just months left before it can't be sold in the UK anymore. I think the EU are doing the same. So it's not a light with a bright future.


It's hard to weigh up. The $300 LED replacement might save half the electric bill, but if it's dead in 6 years, it might not of really saved anything. I would need some real numbers to make an informed decision. However, there seems no rush to change lights, or any reason to delay the change. It's this balancing act that has seen LED replace T5 in a legally binding fashion though, so crack on with your T5, but keep looking at the LED market. I wouldn't buy new T5 tubes in advance of them going out of production. Some of the better lighting manufacturers are making LED T5 style retrofit lamps. So when your tubes are shot, you can make it an LED fitting very easily. If it's a light packaging you like using.

T5 is 80-100 lumen/W depending on the bulb it seems, longer ones better. When brand new... But that is actually better than I thought.

Cheapest possible LED floodlight that costs about the same as the T5 bulb alone is 100 lumen/W.

 

[Finepointcanon]

Thanks guys. I actually don't have my old t5 fixtures on this side of the world, so I need to buy all new anyways. Looks like I'll go with led. Thanks!

I'm assuming if I can find a spectrum that matches MH or similar I'd be good? They'll never be used for flower
as the sun here hovers close enough to 12/12 to induce flower anytime of the year.

 

[Ca++]

T5 is 80-100 lumen/W depending on the bulb it seems, longer ones better. When brand new... But that is actually better than I thought.

Cheapest possible LED floodlight that costs about the same as the T5 bulb alone is 100 lumen/W.

That bad? damn... they were the business 15 years ago. We were fitting them in new lab builds, where money wasn't an issue.
Most of the veg hoods I saw were about 200w. Mid range LED will do that with 100w then. Saving a couple of units (of power) a day. A saving that would rack up very quickly, so a ROI (return of investment) measured in months not years.

I would like to revise my earlier post lol
Hopefully these numbers help in finding replacements for the T5 units.
For anyone still with some, the cheap retrofits start around 120lm/w and the better one's are over 150lm/w so it's not quite dead yet. The latest energy class will likely bring even better tubes, as these fittings have a few years left in them, before building refits see them removed completely.



What colour LEDs is opinion led. It might not be a choice either. Most lights will be for grow and bloom, and if it's just for grow, then expect some specialist prices, that might not be worth paying.
Even the 3000K lights grow pretty squat plants. I would take whatever suits your budget, rather than worry about colour. There seems no need for UV or IR for your needs. How about looking over some Mars lights?

 

[mountainoutlaw]

Just my take...now I LOVE LEDs...especially samsung 301s....high power vegging, high power.flowering....but for me...when im keeping mothers or seedlings, i prefer t5 at 6500k. I dont need super high output as i keepcmothers tame, i also like to use some minor side lighting to encourage and get light to those many branches we need for cuttings. ..

 

[Mars Hydro Led]

Just my take...now I LOVE LEDs...especially samsung 301s....high power vegging, high power.flowering....but for me...when im keeping mothers or seedlings, i prefer t5 at 6500k. I dont need super high output as i keepcmothers tame, i also like to use some minor side lighting to encourage and get light to those many branches we need for cuttings. ..

According to your description, I think there may be some fate between us. Your review is welcome.
www.mars-hydro.com

 

[revegeta666]

Just my take...now I LOVE LEDs...especially samsung 301s....high power vegging, high power.flowering....but for me...when im keeping mothers or seedlings, i prefer t5 at 6500k. I dont need super high output as i keepcmothers tame, i also like to use some minor side lighting to encourage and get light to those many branches we need for cuttings. ..

I think T5 are ideal for moms and clones. I have both T5 and a samsung quantum board in the mother tent and I will end up taking the QB out because it never gets used.

The best thing about fluorescents is how gentle they are with plants, seems to slow their metabolism down in some way, they barely need feeding of any kind, never had to correct any deficiencies with T5s, plants just love them. Plants grow slower than with led which in my case is preferrable so I don't have to transplant or prune the moms as often. When you have a lot of plants in your flower room and took a lot of clones to save a keeper, the clones will take their sweet time under the T5s which makes selections a lot more manageable and hassle free. Plants stay happier in small pots for a longer time.

If you need your moms to produce many clones in a shorter amount of time, because you have a perpetual flowering room and need 40 clones every 10 weeks, use leds. Otherwise to keep plants happy long term go with fluos.

 

[Cerathule]

Hi guys, it's been forever since I've asked questions here. (or grown seriously)

I live in Thailand, and I'd like to keep some flo x otm and f13 x temple flo in veg indoors until the rainy season winds down and then stick them outside to flower to avoid mold. I've got a ton of wild thai sativa seeds to throw in the ground now.

When I last grew I loved my 5 bulb t5 for perpetual veg, but nowadays it seems that everywhere I look people are using LEDs and getting great results.

What's the consensus nowadays, my new place has no AC as well, so any extra degrees will be felt.

Thanks everyone!

One last thing, if you use a normal white light LED then you'll have to acclimate the plants/leaves again to the outdoor UV, something that won't be necessary if you use 6500k CFLs or a MH hid.

 

[Hiddenjems]

It’s easy to damage plants with led and a 24 hour light cycle. Use a light meter and don’t let the dli get really high.

 

[goingrey]

For moms and rooting clones I use a 10W PAR30 bulb style LED lamp.

Yes, only 10 watts!

Can do like 4 moms if they are in small enough pots (limited coverage).

 

[Ca++]

I have been very surprised how little light cannabis needs to stay healthy. However we can't ignore the bonsai effect. It is better to keep cutting back plants you intend to flower, than to use lower light. It's all about gene expression, and how long it takes a plant to re-orientate itself. More immediately, if you grow on low light, you don't develop a strong frame. If you keep cutting back, you grow a plant used to rapid growth.
We can't grow a spindly thing, and expect it to recover through stretch. To a degree it can with lots of P, but there is no comparison to a plant that was always growing vigorously. I find 2 weeks of good high energy veg will about bring a plant back around. However, not if it's from a mum that been under low light a long time. That is where the bonsai effect starts stepping in. Longer ingrained traits than just rooting and establishing under low light brings.

Still, it is remarkable how little light you can actually get away with.
The only real problem with buying a typical commercial LED light, is that you might not want to run it at low power levels. They can flower, so are much more energy dense than needed, if you were happy with flo's.

 

[goingrey]

I have been very surprised how little light cannabis needs to stay healthy. However we can't ignore the bonsai effect. It is better to keep cutting back plants you intend to flower, than to use lower light. It's all about gene expression, and how long it takes a plant to re-orientate itself. More immediately, if you grow on low light, you don't develop a strong frame. If you keep cutting back, you grow a plant used to rapid growth.
We can't grow a spindly thing, and expect it to recover through stretch. To a degree it can with lots of P, but there is no comparison to a plant that was always growing vigorously. I find 2 weeks of good high energy veg will about bring a plant back around. However, not if it's from a mum that been under low light a long time. That is where the bonsai effect starts stepping in. Longer ingrained traits than just rooting and establishing under low light brings.

Still, it is remarkable how little light you can actually get away with.
The only real problem with buying a typical commercial LED light, is that you might not want to run it at low power levels. They can flower, so are much more energy dense than needed, if you were happy with flo's.

Yeah the problem with the low light mom approach is you don't want to keep them around too long. Word to the wise make sure at least one of the clones has rooted before you let her go!