System Upgrade questions

[NorthernKronic]

Hey all, Kron here. thanks for stopping in. I just finished up my first sucessful grow and im real hyped about the results. i grew three plants two bag seed sativas, and one really cristally indica that came out of humbolt. i used a 400 watt mh for veg and a 400 watt hps for flower. I want to upgrade my system for my next grow and i just had a few questions.

1. is it safe to buy growlights off of sites such as E bay?

2. I want to run 2000 watts during flower, so should i buy switchable ballest sytems. or just get 2k of hps and keep my 400 mh for veg?

3. how much do you think it will increase my harvest? just for info, i pulled off 2 ounces off of my dank indica... the only one i care to grow again..

4. How many plants would be acceptable underneath this amount of wattage.

5. What should i do with my $800 that would help me make the best growroom i can?

6. im working with a pretty large space.. over 10x10

thanks all cant wait for your info... Holla!

 

[crunkinshoe]

Hey Kron,

1. I've bought lights there before with no problems...

2. get 2k of hps and keep ur mh for veg... I might go with 2 600w digitals instead... think about how your going to cool all that too...

3. Your harvest will increase with more knowledge, better grow conditions, co2, and larger or more plants, etc. Just because you increase light doesnt always mean a lot more yield.

4. Depends if you want to do sog (up to 200) or scrog (maybe like 40-50)... I would consider bio buckets in a space that size :smile:

5. Black & white poly or mylar.... the new lights will be a good chunk of that $800... COOLING/AC & carbon scrubber!!

6. Wish my space was that big :wink:

Good luck and let us know how its coming - Crunk

 

[NorthernKronic]

Hey Crunkin thanks for the insight, as a matter of fact i was checkin out your sweet grow box setup earlier today. nice job.
Yea I thought it over more and if i go for 2k watts they would both be sealed and aircooled by a 305 cfm inline fan through 6 in ducting.

Do you guys think that will be enough?

I was considering getting an evaporative cooler if the temps begin to be a problem.

I also want to get another 305 cfm fan to run through a carbon scrubber to circulate air in the room.

Finally i also thought that i might want to run C02 this time around, since ive seen it used correctly and the results are amazing..

I really want everyones imput on this and any suggestions are truely appreciated.

Thanks all. Kron..

 

[SweetIndica]

Hey all, Kron here. thanks for stopping in. I just finished up my first sucessful grow and im real hyped about the results. i grew three plants two bag seed sativas, and one really cristally indica that came out of humbolt. i used a 400 watt mh for veg and a 400 watt hps for flower. I want to upgrade my system for my next grow and i just had a few questions.

1. is it safe to buy growlights off of sites such as E bay?

2. I want to run 2000 watts during flower, so should i buy switchable ballest sytems. or just get 2k of hps and keep my 400 mh for veg?

3. how much do you think it will increase my harvest? just for info, i pulled off 2 ounces off of my dank indica... the only one i care to grow again..

4. How many plants would be acceptable underneath this amount of wattage.

5. What should i do with my $800 that would help me make the best growroom i can?

6. im working with a pretty large space.. over 10x10

thanks all cant wait for your info... Holla!

1. It's fine, pretty much the same as buying from an online store. Most hydroponic supply dealers on ebay have private listings also. You should be pretty safe, but like buying from any online places to be absolutely safe have the equipment shipped to an address other than the place where you grow.

2. Most ballasts have the option to come switchable for an extra $20 or $30, so if you have the cash definately go for it. That's if you want to be running 2000w's during veg, or you could just use one light during veg and use both during flower if you want. I wouldn't go with a digital ballast also, alot of it is hype. Alot of digital ballast have problems and don't work with certain bulbs, alot of people have them crap out on them after a year or two. They cost alot more, and it's also been proven they don't make the light anymore intense like they claim and they don't save much power like they claim. I would also stick with a 1000w rather than a 600w, 600w's cost about the same or more than a 1000w ballast and the bulbs generally cost more. The 1000w will also penetrate further into the canopy than a 600w.

3. Your yield should be noticeably better with a 1000w. Plus like i said, it will penetrate much further into the canopy.

4. You could get away with a max of 12 full size plants under a 1000w. That's if you don't plan on using bigger than 3-5 gallon pots.

5. Invest money into a digital ph meter, lot of nutrients (i prefer organic), a nice ventilation system, aircooled reflector (optional), nice soil (i'm assuming your using soil?), ph up and down, cloning equipment, mylar, etc. Decide what is most important to get first, and go from there.

6. That space is fine, Just make sure there is no light in the growroom during the dark period. But remember a smaller space will give you fatter buds and you will use alot less mylar, etc. if you use a smaller space.

Good luck!

 

[SweetIndica]

by the way, for both the 1000w's...you could rig the blower/fan to suck air through them both. Just go with like a 6" vortex, and use duct tubing from the fan to the light, then a piece of duct tubing from the other side of the light to one side on your other light. Just make sure it's over 400 cfm for 2000w's of lighting, you might need even more than 400.

 

[vonforne]

I have a Can 66 with a 747 cmf . Pulls air into the scrubber and through two 1ks and then out no problems. With the 1ks heat will be a big problem. I have to reduce from 8 inch to a 4 inch to go through my lights. Then back to 8, I have old hoods. Kinda of sucks but its effective. the 305 cmf will be reduced to about 240 cmf or so with the pull through the scrubber and the lights. You will need a bigger fan. I think I paid something like 264.00 for the 747. I wanted the 10 inch but too many things to change. With that space light movers would work great. The 2 1ks could be put in 2/3ds of the room. Drop in some panda film and veg with the 400;s on the other side. You might want to consider a dedicated circiuts for all that power draw also. each light should ba 20 amp breaker. and then the regular house hold circuit for fans and such. It will be in excess of you 800.00 budget though for everything you want. I wish I had 600's for my 9x13 room.In that space and mine 4 600's would be 2400 opposed to 2000. More watts and greater coverage area=more plants. 50 plants in an area that size in scrog would be good.

 

[NorthernKronic]

Thanks for all the quick feedback!

Ive been doing alot of thinking, and have read everyones suggestions.

I know this setup is going to cost more around the range of 2g to do it right, so that is what it is. just gonna have work a while longer so i can get it all set up nicely.

I still have some more questions for all of you pros out there...

1. If i use light movers, will it have a negative effect on the lights being as they will be on 24 hours a day?

2. I know i should set it up on light movers to maximize effency, but will this running of the lights 24 hours a day spike my energy bill 2x as hard because everything is running full time?

3. I want to run one of these Can 66's through both of my lights and a carbon scrubber like Vonforne said he does, should i just get more ducting to account for the amount of space that the lights will move?

4. I have also been thinking of Co2 systems and have heard good things about the Co2Boost system. They seem mildly affordable, but would it be better to use another system? How many do you think i would have to run in 2 rooms each being nearly 10x10? I was thinking maybe two in each? Does this sound like enough?

5. Would this system, if implomented correctly be good for a SOG setup?

In all honesty i want to run a nice perpetual harvest system and i just think that constantly havesting is the coolest idea ever. At this moment i am re-vegging that really dank humbolt indica i talked about in my first post.

I think this grow will take a few weeks for me to setup and gather funds, but hopefully that will ge me enough time to make my Momma really bushy, and full of delicious nodes that i can clone.


Wow I am real high, too high to be in math class.
thanks for everyones input..
I look forward to your comments.
-N.Kron

 

[SweetIndica]

Thanks for all the quick feedback!

Ive been doing alot of thinking, and have read everyones suggestions.

I know this setup is going to cost more around the range of 2g to do it right, so that is what it is. just gonna have work a while longer so i can get it all set up nicely.

I still have some more questions for all of you pros out there...

1. If i use light movers, will it have a negative effect on the lights being as they will be on 24 hours a day?

2. I know i should set it up on light movers to maximize effency, but will this running of the lights 24 hours a day spike my energy bill 2x as hard because everything is running full time?

3. I want to run one of these Can 66's through both of my lights and a carbon scrubber like Vonforne said he does, should i just get more ducting to account for the amount of space that the lights will move?

4. I have also been thinking of Co2 systems and have heard good things about the Co2Boost system. They seem mildly affordable, but would it be better to use another system? How many do you think i would have to run in 2 rooms each being nearly 10x10? I was thinking maybe two in each? Does this sound like enough?

5. Would this system, if implomented correctly be good for a SOG setup?

In all honesty i want to run a nice perpetual harvest system and i just think that constantly havesting is the coolest idea ever. At this moment i am re-vegging that really dank humbolt indica i talked about in my first post.

I think this grow will take a few weeks for me to setup and gather funds, but hopefully that will ge me enough time to make my Momma really bushy, and full of delicious nodes that i can clone.


Wow I am real high, too high to be in math class.
thanks for everyones input..
I look forward to your comments.
-N.Kron

1. If using the lights 24 hours a day, the bulbs will obviously burn out faster. The ballasts will also have more usage, but most ballasts should last atleast 4-5 years, some will last 10-20 years depending on usage and if it's stored properly and not fucked with.

2. using the lights double the time per day will increase your energy bill more obviously. It will be twice what it would be if the lights were on only 12 hours a day. It won't be much though, it'll raise your electric bill probably $30 or so per month.

3. I would assume so. Most ducting is sold in 25' lengths, just to let you know. just keep in mind that the fan will use a decent amount of power also. Probably anywhere from 300-600+ watts.

4. I don't know much about co2 systems, all i know is they are expensive. Especially for a big room. I find that having good ventilation works good enough for me, i just don't have the cash to spend on a co2 system. I'm sure someone can help you out better than me on the co2 part.

5. 1000w's are perfect for sog, as they provide a very big light coverage and will penetrate well into the canopy.

saving money for better equipment is a very good idea, even if you take a break for a month or so to gather cash it will be much better in the long run. My 1000w and other equipment i have invested in (dayton blower, duct tubing, digital ph meters, ph up and down, organic nutes and soil, cloning equipment, fluros for cloning, a bunch of pots, mylar, etc.) have helped me out alot, my yield is so much better and i don't have to constantly check on my plants because i don't have to worry about nute problems, heat, ventilation, etc.

Good luck dude, and keep us updated. If you need anymore help let me know.

 

[MTF-Sandman]

I really think you oughta do a couple more grows with the 400 before jumping to 2K...you're asking alot of really basic questions that you should have the answers embedded into your brain well before thinking about a 2k setup...

Not that I want to discourage you from growing at all...I just think you're making too big of a jump for such a noob to have much success.

The simplest way to do what you want is setup a 4x8 grow area under 2K. If you're going to use CO2, don't play around with those home made kits and all the BS on ebay. Just get a burner (a CD12 from Greenair for your setup) and hook it up to a 20lb bottle. Get an AC cranking in there and seal the area completely with no exhaust at all.

Veg your clones in a seperate area with that 400w and you'll be set.

Light rails and all the gimmicky shit out there is more of a PITA than it's worth IME...that's why commercial growers don't mess with em.

 

[SweetIndica]

Yea, i would also do a few smaller grows. Even jumping from a 400w to a 1000w is a big jump, about 3 times as many plants is a big jump, let alone about 6 times as many. A 4x8 grow area is perfect like mtf said, just don't go much bigger at all.

 

[NorthernKronic]

Yea mtf i feel what your saying, i think im gonna ditch the light rail idea and just run the 2k with co2 sealed in my room like you guys suggested. I dont really have enough mothers to run two seperate rooms and like you guys have made obvious i dont have enough experience(Im still young what can i say) haha.

So MTF do you think i should just put an A/C unit in there instead of aircooling the lights?

because i think that will be much simpler, (just was reading on the green air website, damn that shit is cool)

Well everyone thankyou all for your input i think im going to go work on finding a way to mount the ac in my room.

wow im excited, i think im gonna order my co2 system tonight

thanks all -N.Kron

 

[SweetIndica]

Yea mtf i feel what your saying, i think im gonna ditch the light rail idea and just run the 2k with co2 sealed in my room like you guys suggested. I dont really have enough mothers to run two seperate rooms and like you guys have made obvious i dont have enough experience(Im still young what can i say) haha.

So MTF do you think i should just put an A/C unit in there instead of aircooling the lights?

because i think that will be much simpler, (just was reading on the green air website, damn that shit is cool)

Well everyone thankyou all for your input i think im going to go work on finding a way to mount the ac in my room.

wow im excited, i think im gonna order my co2 system tonight

thanks all -N.Kron

The point of the ventilation fans/blowers isn't just for cooling, it brings in fresh air to the room and exhausts the stale air. The a/c will work to bring the temps down, but not to remove the stale air and bring in new fresh air. If you have a strong enough fan and don't live in a place where it's over 85 degrees, then the temp should stay low. If you have a strong enough blower, the bulb can stay cool to the touch.

 

[MTF-Sandman]

You can air cool with a sealed setup, it'll just require a dedicated intake and exhaust for the ducting...Personally, I'd air cool them if possible to keep the ambient temps down at the canopy so that the lights can stay closer.

You don't need to exchange the room air if you're running CO2 in a sealed setup since the CO2 is mainly all the plants want from the air, your "fresh air" will basically be the burner.

What kind of AC are you planning on using? If you get a portable AC, make sure it's a dual hose portable...the single hose ones will exhaust room air - including your CO2 and odor. Window units are alot cheaper and won't exchange the room air...

I know they're not cheap, but I highly recommend getting a CO2 ppm meter to hook up to the burner...it'll make sure that you're plants are getting optimal levels of CO2 without overshooting. If you partition the area down to say 6x10, you can run a CD6 CO2 generator and save a few bucks.

You'll want the temps to stay in the mid to upper 80's when running CO2, so that should take away some of burden on the AC and the power bill.

Having a scrubber in the room (recirculating room air through it) will greatly help control any possible odor leaks as well....

 

[NorthernKronic]

Yea damn those monitors are fuckin expensive, but its pretty essentail to know the ppm of the co2 in the room. Im looking into gettin the SPC-1 for the controller, and then getting the CD-12 Generator. both of those combined are gonna run me around $1100, but i think it will be worth it. i have a window ac unit that im going to run, but im not to worried, because im going to be doing this in the winter, and its very cold up here, so ill just beable to turn on the fan in the ac and it will blow natures own icy air into my room (and without any circulation) then i think im just going to run a can fan in there to deal with oder leaks.

thanks for all of the info all, any more suggestions are greatly appreciated.

-N.Kron