Sweet Spot Replication

[zamalito]

I felt it's important to start a thread on sweet spot replication. Here's what I'm starting with and just has a few ideas of what's feasible for my situation in particular but I'm very curious as to what we can all come up with by brainstorming together. I'd like to compile a list that is so extensive that while noone would be able to incorporate every idea it would help breeders in just about any environment to do the best they can with what they have.


1. UV transparent glazing for the greenhouse itself.

2. Ultra cool daylight spectrum halide for supplemental lighting when applicable. To greenhouses that don't have electrical current using solar powered landscaping lights for maintaining longer daylength when needed.

3. Shade cloth for controlling light cycle

4. Ultrasonic foggers to simulate nutrient rich air of some tropical island environments. Tips for recommended air nutrition are welcome.

5. Use of rock spring fed water tower for providing fresh spring water for irrigation.

6. Use of various products available to simulate volcanic soil

I'm curious about the possibility of restricting ventilation combined with supplemental uv using artificial lighting. Using both as a means to simulate extreme altitude. I'll be breeding a 1000 meters above sea level which is good but not much compared to some of the highland sweet spots.

 

[Guest]

sounds like a good idea zamalito, if you create the same climate and conditions that the seeds were collected it must benefit the end product.

 

[Guest]

this is very interesting. When you say restricting ventilation....are you saying to restrict it in conjunction with providing higher levels of CO2 to boost growth? If you're not already in a n equatorial location, it may be difficult to get the increased light intensity you need. As far as reducing the hours of light, this seems to be the tradeoff advantage that growers in non-equatorial locations have over growers in equatorial loactions: that we get more daylight hours with less intense light and they get less daylight hours with more intense light.

with the volcanic soil, it would be useful to research exactly which properties of the volcanic soil were beneficial to the plant growth.

the nutrient rich air is a great idea. It seems it would almost be like starting clones and letting more nutrients be absorbed through the stomata on the leaves than throught the roots.

As far as the spring fed water, that seems to be a matter of correcting the pH to whatever the pH of the water in the volcanic soil is as well of making sure all the micronutrients and minerals are there. This could be accomplished by looking for soil and water analyses of the soil and water in that region. I think volcanic soil is more acidic becuase of the ash. I could be wrong on that. But matching up the pH would be a step in finding the sweet spot you speak of. You would also need to find what the nutrient levels of the native soil and water are. These factors may be easier to control in a hydroponics system than a soil based system.

The UV transparent glazing would be great, as the equatorial plants recieve more UV rays, supposedly helping them to develop higher levels of desired chemicals in the buds.

As far as the ventiation restriction, it would still be necessary to have a storng air circulation system to mimic the breezes and winds found in those climates due to the temperature differences experienced daily, especially at higher alritudes.

 

[Limeygreen]

If you're going to restrict ventilation, it could be dangerous to have nutrient rich air as it could invite rots etc from dead microbes or even pathogens.

 

[zamalito]

The ventilation restrictions were just something I thought of while I was writing. The purpose would be to slightly reduce co2 levels simulating higher altitudes.

In my situation daylength reductions aren't going to cause much decrease in overal light given to the plants due to the fact that it's only going to be a matter of 1 1/2 hours or so. Though I think if someone lives even further from the equator it will stil be needed. Supplemental lught may be needed in those cases since drastically altering the light cycle can seriously eddect expression. In cases like some of the 1 year colombians you may never get the plants to flower and most definitely will have hermaphrodite problems if they're started with a 15 hr dark cycle in early spring then go up to a 9 hr dark cycle in midsummer.

The point of ultrasonic foggers is that they actually combat bud mold by sterilizing the mist while simultaneously provide a dry fog with water drops so small that they provide no assistance to pathogens. Even moderat soil nutrient levels have a strong effect on expression in many of these cases the

My attempts to simulate volcanic soil are more to replicate higher levels of magnetism. Perhaps it's pointless and is fairly low on my list of things to simulate.

 

[Guest]

Perhaps it's pointless and is fairly low on my list of things to simulate

Maybe soo, the more you can do the better, of course.

I would concentrate on maximising available UV, this appears to me to be the single most important factor when choosing the best plants within a population, especially for potentcy. This i feel is the key to getting the equatorial plants to respond correctly. Where Red grows for instance is really high UV, relatively speaking. This matures those resin heads correctly.

All the best, Flowers

 

[Dr Leary]

I'm not sure the volcanic soil replication is necessary as I suspect the roots know no difference where they are if the nutriants and water are in sufficient supply. For sativas possibly they need a lot of room for the roots to grow big and this forces some technical concerns on space utilization within the greenhouse.

I think you will need to suppliment light in two ways. One is in color, blue and red. The color spectrum of the equator should not be too hard to find for intensity and duration.

The second supplimental light is in UVA/UVB. The UVB is probably more important, but I dont speak with authority on this but I have seen radiation measures for the equator when evaluating light for reptiles. Probably the use of taning bed flouros would do the best job possible because of their size.

The other question i have struggled with is when to start the plants. I'm thinking that Equitorial Sativas need a long veg time, 3 months for this example. The optimal time is to begin planting seeds in October (north of the equator on the 39th), and then they are hit with natural light for the longest period through the summer and early fall. During those times you blocking light out by covering the greenhouse in black plastic/cloth as they do in europe.

 

[zamalito]

Though I obvously don't believe that roots have some kind of brain that allows them to "know" where they are, roots do have a behavior that is effected by their environemnt. Plants grown upside down have a very different growth pattern than their right side up counterparts. There's been several studies that have illustated the effect of paramagnetic soil on root growth. That said I believe magnetism and nutrient content have been given too much credit for the intensity and vibrancy of the ecosystem of hawaii. There's been several studies that have shown the magnetism in volcanic soil does have a strong effect on root growth. However I don't feel replicating both of these will have the desired effect of recreating the lush growth of an ecosystem like hawaii. The often neglected variable (and I'm suprised noone has mentioned this) is life in the soil. The magnestism and micronutrient aren't as important so much in feeding the plant but in providing support for a vast quantity and diverse array af fungal and bacterial life. Though this is difficult to simulate to the degree it exists in the more sweet of the sweet spots there are things that can be done.

Kudzu compost has the highest levels of bacterial life ever recorded in compost. My compost recipe is designed less for nutrient content but more for life content. The main two components being lignin kudzu and kamboucha tea but I also have a source for free organic tangerines pineapples and bananas which provide a healthy source of vitamins (its important to be very conservative with the simple carbohydrates as they feed pathogenic bacteria) along with wild nettles thistles and herbs.

 

[zamalito]

Along with uv transparent glazing they also make lamps that transmit high levels of uvb for the treatment of psoriasis. Regilar tanning lamps are fairly low in uvb since uva is considered much safer with regards to skin cancer. Many of the higher uvb lamps are available with prescription only however they can be found with a little work. They also make high uvb lamps for light curing for various printing processes some of which also emit uvc which may provide some interesting breeding experiments since uvc emits the highest energy levels though it only exists in very low levels if at all on the earths surface. Using these light curing lamps may also be interesting for light curing bud. It's possible that these could be used for creating gold buds without much of the degradation that goes along with the traditional processes. Its just a thought but if you're going to try to preserve the various sun cured landrace lines it may be worth while to make certain the flowers of the breeding plants have the ability to turn the right colors with a sun cure.

 

[zamalito]

With true equatorials (subtropical sativas like mexicans, brazilians, etc and central asian indicas are different) its important to not think of things in terms of veg and flower with regards to light cycles. These plants only have a few minutes variation in terms of their light cycle and should only receive that much variation when trying to replicate their natural environment. A dratic change from the acclimated light cycle can strongly effect plant structure, flower structure, maturation pattern, yield and trichome development. Which could prevent you from seeing the potential in the plants you're growing/breeding. If you want them to grow like they do on their region of origin then just let them flower when they flower. Some will only get 2-3 ft tall and some will get 25 ft tall. If you have no choice but to trigger flowering early it's best to do it with rootbinding and nutrient restriction since these are more likely to occur in the region of origin.

 

[Guest]

I don't know if it'll be helpful to ya, but this seemed like a useful tool when planning a greenhouse, a sunlight exposure calculator.

{solardat.uoregon.edu/SunChartProgram.html}

 

[Dr Leary]

zamalito your posts are intelligently refreshing. I hope some day to share a joint of fine sativa with you.

 

[zamalito]

That's a very important tool okra

Thanks Dr. Leary. Perhaps someday soon we'll be able to do that after I move. Lu, and I may be able to invite people a few down to Brazil to see and experience fresh grown tropical sativas.

 

[Ganico]

Kudzu compost has the highest levels of bacterial life ever recorded in compost.

That is truly a monumental discovery for someone who lives in the south, hahaha. I was planning on using kudzu as the "green" material in a compost this spring. Looks like a good choice! I was just gonna use it cause there's a creek nearby with banks that are of course engulfed in it


Thanks zam!

 

[PazVerdeRadical]

With true equatorials (subtropical sativas like mexicans, brazilians, etc and central asian indicas are different) its important to not think of things in terms of veg and flower with regards to light cycles. These plants only have a few minutes variation in terms of their light cycle and should only receive that much variation when trying to replicate their natural environment. A dratic change from the acclimated light cycle can strongly effect plant structure, flower structure, maturation pattern, yield and trichome development. Which could prevent you from seeing the potential in the plants you're growing/breeding. If you want them to grow like they do on their region of origin then just let them flower when they flower. Some will only get 2-3 ft tall and some will get 25 ft tall. If you have no choice but to trigger flowering early it's best to do it with rootbinding and nutrient restriction since these are more likely to occur in the region of origin.

and vice-versa! if you grow dutch genes at 12/12 tropical photoperiods, the plants will act up. the way they do this is that very shortly after sprouting, they go into flower as soon as the plant's structure allows it.
i learned this the hard way, trying to grow california orange bud outdoors at 1800mts elevation (6000 feet). out of the plants that the sun did not fry, i got to harvest about 4grams of some crappy herb!

peace.

 

[zamalito]

I was having the same problem in the southeastern u.s. with the first dutch genetics I'd ever bought. I got a bunch of kc brains and dutch passion outdoor that were all rated at 1-2 lbs per plant they only produced 1/2-2 oz each and were finished early august 3 months after germinating.

 

[PazVerdeRadical]

zamalito, you probably know this, but for the sake of the thread, if one makes f2s of those dutch strains, they grow a bit better. la mano and red have done this with ok results. although it seems the result isn't as good as what comes from more solid genetics shall we say?

regarding sweet spot replication, i wonder how would seeds grown in a properly controlled greenhouse to replicate certain micro-climates compare to the actual micro-climate the greenhouse is trying to replicate?

one love.