super tiny bugs (>1mm) in coco, damage resembling broad mite damage

[chefboyrd]

I have been freaking out for past 2 weeks thinking I have broad mites. Clawed leaves, burnt pistils, but I have spent hours on hours searching leaves and no bugs. Tonight I was looking at top of coco and I see a super tiny bug crawling on a piece of perlite. I start banging on the pot and look underneath and discover several bugs crawling around underneath on the tray. I can't find any normal cannabis pest that looks even close. I have been treating with forbid 4f and big time exterminator every day or two and have added the BTE in my reservoir AT 3 ml/g to battle the broad mites(still haven't found any but it's the only cause of problems that makes any sense)and some fungus gnats. I have been growing for 6 years and am running a fairly large grow. If anyone could help identify these bugs and maybe offer a solution I would be forever grateful. I can provide more pictures of plants if needed. The pictures with the bugs are next to a 1mm, there are several different kinds or stages of the same kind maybe but they don't look at all similar.

How long has this problem been going on? 2 weeks for plant damage just discovered unidentified bugs
Are you growing in a PVC grow tent? (example: Hydrohut or any other non brand tents) no
What system are you running? Recirculating top-drip in botanicare aeration, 4 gallon pots
What STRAIN are you growing? Tahoe og and Skywalker og
What was the establishing technique? (Were the seed or clone?) Clone
What is the age of your plants? Cloned early april
How long have they been in there mixture they are in now?(coco,soiless etc..) planted in 1 gal pots 3 months ago, transplanted to 4 gal pot for 1 month then flipped
How tall are the plants? ~ 4.5' from top of pot, trellised
What PHASE are the plants in? Week 4 flower
What Technique are you using? Top drip recirculating, water once/day until runoff
What substrate/medium are you using? Botanicare aeration coco mix, reused
What is the Water temperature? ~68
What color are your roots? Off-white
When was your last watering? Today
What size bulb are you using? gavita 1000w
What is your RH Factor(Relative Humidity)? 60-65%
What is the canopy temperature? 78
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include flucutaion range) 72 night, 76 day
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.) Sealed room co2 1000ppm, wall fans, a/c
Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ? closed room with ac
Is the fan blowing directly at plants? Yes, oscillating fan
Is your water HARD or SOFT?
What water are you using? Filtered tap (big boy)
If using RO,Distilled,mineral water, what is the ppm/EC/TDS without any additives?
Are you using water from a water softener? No
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned off of or pinched ? trellised, pruned
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so, What and when? Forbid 4f, big time exterminator- spray and root drench

 

[Storm Shadow]

**Springtails**

 

[chefboyrd]

Never heard of them. They don't really look like the Google pictures. These things are super tiny and the really small ones, the one in the picture by itself, jump like fleas or thrips. Are simphilids harmful?

 

[Storm Shadow]

** Springtails**

 

[chefboyrd]

I just read more about symphilids and I'm not sure that's what they are. I did reuse my coco from last run which is most likely why I have these things. The plants look overall healthy, green with no leaf drop, but the pistils are starting to fry and some leaves are showing some clawing. It could still be broad mites on there also but I just can't find them after looking at leaf after leaf at 200x magnification.

 

[chefboyrd]

Thanks for the replies! I have had trips before but I have never seen any like this. They look like super small rollie pollies. If I didn't have white trays I would never have been able to see them. Took me forever to be able to catch one so I could put it under the scope

 

[Storm Shadow]

Have you grown these genetics b4? It's not BM..

 

[chefboyrd]

I haven't.. They come from a trusted source though and at the least I would know if there was any kind of problems with his plants because my gf works for the guy and these are some of his strains he grows regularly.

 

[FoothillFarming]

I don't see BM's or BM damage.

Don't know what bug is pictured, that usually means they are not harmful. Good luck.

 

[Storm Shadow]

do they smell dank at all? kinda of resemble "Dudding" thats why I asked if you've grown them b4.. if thats the case... no matter what you do at this stage of the game...they'll come out with less than desirable expectations

 

[chefboyrd]

I will get more pictures tonight when lights come on the plant pictured doesn't show the signs as well it was just a picture I had on my phone of the burnt pistils. I have 2 separate grows that are showing the same problems. In the one pictured(not the one I found these bugs in) there is literally not a white hair left in the whole room and the other grow is on its way there.

 

[Storm Shadow]

Springtails... those plants are dudding bro... no damage from those bugs you took pics of

 

[Storm Shadow]

Look up Snow Fleas or Springtails those are more than likely the bug u took pics of... they are not the reason for your problem however... DUDS are hectic .. those genetics are tainted

 

[chefboyrd]

I have had some gg4 dud on me before but only a couple plants out of dozens. The plants started out healthy as can be and didn't show problems until 2-3 weeks into flower. There is trichome production and smell although it is definitely slowing down. The pic I provided is not the best representation of the problem. The snow fleas do look like they could be the bugs I am seeing though.

 

[Storm Shadow]

DUDS come in different levels... some way worse than others .. some still have frost.. while others are pure hemp.. but those are going DUD... if you re-used your COCO and had DUD GG4 in there... then this will keep happening bro

 

[chefboyrd]

Sorry, I didn't reuse coco from the duds my last run went well and I pulled close to 2lbs/light. I don't think it would be a problem with the genetics what kind of environmental factors can cause dudding? I really appreciate all your responses and tonight when the light s come on I will get a picture from the other grow which still could be saveable I think. The grow pictured could very well be trash and that's fine(not great obviously) but the other grow is much larger and I cannot afford to lose it

 

[Storm Shadow]

Take pics for sure bro ... DUDs are not environment... they are from Stem Nematodes.. which can basically stay in your room under so many different conditions.. they can live for years with no water.. basically on your trays.. they travel through water... aka a real deal nightmare ... if you have had them b4 from the GG4.. that could be huge factor in everything .. pics will help .. enviroment just either speeds up the reproduction of them or slows them down at best

 

[chefboyrd]

The more I read about dudding the more it seems like I may not have the bms. What about tmv? The shitty thing is that all the strains that I grow are on the list of strains that are prone to dudding. However the gg4 duds still grew right along with the others just turned into weird, larfy, frostless buds. The leaves also didn't twist our curl like these are. Is it possible to spread to other plants that are on seperate trays/ irrigation systems since you say the nematodes are carried through the water? This is all so overwhelming and nobody seems to have an exact agreed upon reason why this stuff happens.

 

[DONAJTHEIII]

DUDS come in different levels... some way worse than others .. some still have frost.. while others are pure hemp.. but those are going DUD... if you re-used your COCO and had DUD GG4 in there... then this will keep happening bro

whats up storm I got a GG4 clone a year ago shes a healthy mom now but Im curious about this dud thing.


Are all gg4s duds and hold this stem nematode ? or what ? how does it work should i just toss the mom now ? I havent flowered her out yet since I have other genes I just keep running and know are consistent. Will a dud and stem nematodes effect a mom and not let her be healthy.


I dont want to go through another series of issues like I did with broadmites years ago. Please enlighten us


thanks in advance !

 

[PoweredByLove]

the infamous magic broad mites.


...and now the inafmous magic dudding...should be an interesting thread