Sunshine Mix 4 advice and soilless input

[growing303]

Hello ICMAG i have been trolling for some time now and have seen some very amazing grows, very inspiring gardens, good job out there.

I have some questions for any one who has input, i would very much like to talk with other gardeners as i do not often for obvious reasons.

I have been growing for some years and am running a, 4.2kw flower room. the pictures are of 3k bloom room with fox farms (roots organic soil), and one with Dyna Gro, later added two 600w bulbs one vertical.
my lease is nearly up and i will be getting ready to build out the next one soon. my hope is to use sunshine mix #4 with Dyna Gro full line. i know many think it is junk but I have hit a gram per watt more easily with it than any other line. my hope is to run it like soilless medium with little to no runoff, keeping it moist but not saturated. When experimenting with coco i think no runoff hand watering every day does best, hoping the same is true for this semi-soil-less mix.

i plan on building a drip but can hand water every day for the time being. I have about 50 ten gallon containers i am hoping to not have to empty the saucers. never used the sunshine mix but look forward to some decision.
Any help is very much welcomed, i have been planning on expanding and love input.
Thank you

 

[ClackamasCootz]

From the manufacturer's sheet:

Ingredients

Formulated with Canadian Sphagnum peat moss, coarse perlite, starter nutrient charge (with Gypsum) and dolomitic limestone

 

[growing303]

ClackamasCootz- thanks for the reply! have any personal input?

 

[OrganicOzarks]

Why don't you just mix your own?

Something like 20-30% compost/worm castings,
40% peat
30% perlite
and a bit of nutes, and you would be good.

It would be way cheaper.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

growing303

These type of products (Sunshine Mix(es) and Pro-Mix) are referred to as 'blank soils' meaning that you have to do 'something' with them to grow plants.

One way is to do what you're going to do with Dyna-Grow or something similar. Organic gardeners use these type of mixes as a framework and then add humus and other amendments to create a working soil.

What these type of mixes will give you is a stable medium. There are 10 grades in the Sphagnum world (Von Post Scale) and top 2, H1 & H2, is limited to straight Sphagnum packs, i.e. no Perlite, Pumice or Vermiculite - this is the highest quality available and you can buy this at Home Depot or Lowe's and you would mix this with your aeration amendment at about 60% peat moss and 40% 'whatever'

Products like this use H3 - H4 so this is the next best to straight products. By the time you get to bagged potting soils you really down on the scale and this is where the pH issues arise.

The Sunshine Mix(es) are pretty consistent unless they've been stored improperly, i.e. sitting in the sun wrapped in heavy plastic isn't very helpful. If you can, try and buy from a distributor that is moving some volume meaning that they don't have a lot sitting around.

A pallet is 30 bales - 6 tie x 5 high. At a legitimate nursery supplier a full pallet should give you at least a 15% discount but that will probably depend on where you live. States which have a lot of commercial activity (Oregon & California) will have far lower prices than Nebraska or whatever.

Good product and it will serve you well.

CC

 

[supermanlives]

add a bag of wormcastings and some compost .

 

[Homebrewer]

I use DG with promix and I'd recommend adding some vermiculite to improve the texture of your medium. I'd also recommend watering with 10-15% runoff. If you don't see runoff then you're continuously loading up your medium with salts.

 

[Scrappy4]

I use DG with promix and I'd recommend adding some vermiculite to improve the texture of your medium. I'd also recommend watering with 10-15% runoff. If you don't see runoff then you're continuously loading up your medium with salts.

You guys do know that this is an organïc forum, right?

Salt run off? WTF?

Vermiculite holds moisture. How do you flush it?

 

[ClackamasCootz]

I feel a dissertation on flushing looming for the near future somehow....

 

[Homebrewer]

You guys do know that this is an organïc forum, right?

Salt run off? WTF?

Vermiculite holds moisture. How do you flush it?

My post might make more sense if you'd come to the dark side .

 

[growing303]

Thank you guys!

Thank you guys!

OrganicOzarks Thank you. I have mixed subcool super soil many a’ time, used roots organic as the base; I like it and never feed really. But I want something with high aeration, to use as a base. Almost like a standard variable. How do you amend your soil?


ClackamasCootz- thank you for bringing that up, I have always used soil and like to use Hygrozyme, and have had good results with age old kelp. Brewed teas before too the end result came out a lot like budswell but never had the same kick, I like to use a little blackstrap because I think it acts as a food for beneficial(s). How do you recommend keeping a healthy root mass in SUNSHINE?

supermanlives- I have seen your advice all over; than you. I have only posted on a horticulture web page one other time, and I never got any input.

Homebrewer- I have read all your DG side-by-sides they are awesome to say the least. You are a huge part of why I ever was interested in giving DG a go, very cool to get input. I was planning on using a product like Drip Clean (house and garden) with a good water-feed-water schedule could it be kept moist with a consistent flush of something of the like?

Scrappy4- I am very sorry to have incorrectly posted, I am a very big fan of organic farming. I understand the importance of organization. Can I request a Forum movement?


Here is a bud picture for all of you!
v

 

[ClackamasCootz]

ClackamasCootz- thank you for bringing that up, I have always used soil and like to use Hygrozyme, and have had good results with age old kelp. Brewed teas before too the end result came out a lot like budswell but never had the same kick, I like to use a little blackstrap because I think it acts as a food for beneficial(s). How do you recommend keeping a healthy root mass in SUNSHINE?

v

growing303

I think that you're missing what Sunshine Mix (or any of the blank potting soil bases) - these are not a potting soil. They are the basis of making a potting soil.

For example, here's the list of materials for a grow store favorite - Fox Farms Ocean Forest from their blab sheet:

earthworm castings, bat guano, and Pacific Northwest sea-going fish and crab meal. Composted forest humus, sandy loam, and sphagnum peat moss

There's also Perlite in this mix but the point is that the base is Sphagnum peat moss & Perlite and then the rest of their mix is added to that. Same with Roots Organic. Botanicare. Black Gold.

Sphagnum Peat Moss and Perlite is at the core.

OrganicOzarks gave you the best suggestion yet - buy straight Sphagnum Peat Moss at Home Depot (3.8 c.f. for $16.00), pick-up a commercial sized bag of Perlite (around $18.00 for 4 c.f.)

So do the arithmatic like this:

Sphagnum Peat Moss - around $4.00 per c.f.
Perlite - around $4.50 per c.f.

Sunshine Mix #4 is mixed at a 60-65% - 35 - 40% ratio. So if you took a 3.8 c.f. bale of straight Sphagnum from Home Depot and you mixed in 2 c.f. of Perlite that would give you the same mix ratio of the Sunshine product.

You final cost would be around $25.00 for 6 c.f. so to make the arithmetic simpler, we'll say that each 1 c.f. is costing you $4.15 each.

You're probably paying > $40.00 for a bale of Sunshine Mix so your cost per 1 c.f. is $10.00 - 250% higher than mixing your own. Plus the Sphagnum Peat Moss in the raw bales is a far higher quality than a mix - even a fairly straight one like Sunshine (or Pro-Mix).

But to get it to a 'soil' you have to add 'something' like the example of Fox Farms Ocean Forest.

Sunshine Mix(es) are not soils. Never will be. You have to do 'something'

One other thing to consider perhaps, the same company which packs Sunshine Mix also owns Black Gold. I'm don't promote any bagged potting soil for organic gardens but since you're not doing organic then this might be a better way to go.

Grow stores jack the price on legitimate soil materials so high that there is no way it's financially feasible. At a nursery supply house, bales of Sunshine Mix are $25.00 for singles and huge discounts for full pallets. Grow stores will mark this up 200% making it appear that building a legitimate potting soil is some huge expense so that Good Dude Grower figures "Heck - I'll just buy a bag of this or that" so by having a bale of Sunshine Mix @ 4x the price on straight Sphagnum then this moves that business model down the road.

HTH

CC

 

[growing303]

ClackamasCootz- thank you so much for the input, so nice to talk to a fellow farmer. I have amended Fox farms ocean forrest, and light warrior with blood meal; bone meal, dolomite lime, worm castings, vermiculite, guano and perlite, to make a subcool like soil. it works well but i had more N in flower than i wanted. This is probably my soil of choice, all my veggies grow in this and i only feed them great white, budswell, molasses, and age old kelp. its a pretty organic regimen.

As far as my ganja crop goes i am doing a much higher volume, the SUNSHINE originally appealed for ease of use (comes compressed, local shops have very good pallet price) Although the idea of buying perlite and Peat Moss is very cool, and i would assume promotes aeration and drainage. I am looking for a good base media i like the idea of Peat being a blank slate, i could really hone in on perfect chemical feeding and not worry if the media has stored nutrients that are going to continue to make things like N and Ca over abundant.

Any straight Peat Moss users with a say?

 

[supermanlives]

all i can add is cement mixer. the only thing i have grown in pure peat was strawberries

 

[FJM5000]

Good info! This will be replacing my S#4.

Good info! This will be replacing my S#4.

Why don't you just mix your own?

Something like 20-30% compost/worm castings,
40% peat
30% perlite
and a bit of nutes, and you would be good.

It would be way cheaper.

Good info! This will be replacing my S#4.

 

[DuckDuckGoose]

growing303

These type of products (Sunshine Mix(es) and Pro-Mix) are referred to as 'blank soils' meaning that you have to do 'something' with them to grow plants.

One way is to do what you're going to do with Dyna-Grow or something similar. Organic gardeners use these type of mixes as a framework and then add humus and other amendments to create a working soil.

What these type of mixes will give you is a stable medium. There are 10 grades in the Sphagnum world (Von Post Scale) and top 2, H1 & H2, is limited to straight Sphagnum packs, i.e. no Perlite, Pumice or Vermiculite - this is the highest quality available and you can buy this at Home Depot or Lowe's and you would mix this with your aeration amendment at about 60% peat moss and 40% 'whatever'

Products like this use H3 - H4 so this is the next best to straight products. By the time you get to bagged potting soils you really down on the scale and this is where the pH issues arise.

The Sunshine Mix(es) are pretty consistent unless they've been stored improperly, i.e. sitting in the sun wrapped in heavy plastic isn't very helpful. If you can, try and buy from a distributor that is moving some volume meaning that they don't have a lot sitting around.

A pallet is 30 bales - 6 tie x 5 high. At a legitimate nursery supplier a full pallet should give you at least a 15% discount but that will probably depend on where you live. States which have a lot of commercial activity (Oregon & California) will have far lower prices than Nebraska or whatever.

Good product and it will serve you well.

CC

CC
Sunshine #4 mix has information regarding the manufacture date and production location provided on the white label on the side of the bag. This is what is printed on the bag...

DETERMINING MANUFACTURE DATE
On the black and white label on the side of the bag, there is a Lot Code consisting of one, two or three letters followed by five numbers. The letters represent the production location. The first two numbers represents the year and the next three numbers represent the Julian date (sequential day of the year). For example, a bag Lot Code E12157 was produced at our Elma (E) location in 2012 on the 157th day or June 5, 2012

This can help one to avoid purchasing an old crappy bag of the stuff. I've gotten some really inconsistent bags that were silty and dusty and I had to chuck it in the garden. Lesson learned, check the label.

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Good advice! RTFL!

LOL

 

[RanchoDeluxe]

Maybe I'm a dumbass. How does a bag of peat moss go bad??

 

[ClackamasCootz]

Plastic wrap + moisture in the material + heat from improper storage = gnats, pathogenic molds, etc.

For commercial users it has to be sterilized. Pretty much a mess to deal with for an indoor gardener - not really worth the reduced prices that you're afforded.

 

[DuckDuckGoose]

i just bought some premier sphagnum peat moss today. it's hard to find out of season if you live in a snowy hell hole like me. the large bails were frozen solid and weighed so much i could barely lift it. i went with the smaller sized bail, 2.2 cubic feet. it wasn't frozen, and felt dry and spongy so i hope it's good to go. i think a good thing to do is bring it inside, open it and let it warm for a few days before i get to mixing in it. any how, even if it's no good and a bunch of gnats come flying out of the stuff, i can just chuck it out and not really care because it was $6.50 + tax. big deal! i would feel worse if i bought the sunshine and it was tainted cuz that stuff is like triple the price for a scoop of dolomite and perilite. another lesson that i learned... mix it myself and save some dough