Subpanel: Multiple outlets on a Single 240v circuit?

[drow]

I need some electrical help.

Im currently working on a subpanel and noticed you can only run a 240v circuit to one outlet only (unless u pigtail)

Can I run multiple outlets on a single 240v Circuit? Basically I pigtailed it and ran one 240v circuit to 2 outlets. Will this be a problem? I heard this is only code if there is a GFP installed, but its only 2k watts and GFP is expensive.

I want to run 2 1000w on a single 20Amp 240v circuit. The outlet only has 1 plug outlet. (120v has 2) So Im planning on running the single 20a 240v circuit to all 2 outlets.

How does everyone else do it? One Outlet per Breaker or multiple outlets on a single circuit? I think the lowest breaker for a 240v is 20Amps so using 1 1000w light on a 20a breaker is kinda moot?

Any electricians want to chime in on this? Greatly appreciated.a

 

[purpledomgoddes]

get good electrical book before doing anything. search in these forums for resources. wiring simplified is a good choice.
depends on what the 240v run was originally installed for/to. some 240v runs may only have 2 hots (each 120). this means there is no ground for both 120 runs.
can run 2 1k's off of that, but @ own peril. not code, but may work.
get good books, study, be patient. then, once info acquired, do your run(s), w/ knowledge of the hazards that may be involved.

hope this helps.

 

[I N Hail]

You've got it wrong
1 20 amp breaker will only be 120volt
you have to use a doublebreaker for 240 (each pulling 120 off each leg in your breakerbox)
the amount of amp's your wiring can carry will determine
what size double breakers you can use(40 ,50, 60 amp)

 

[magiccannabus]

20 amp 220V breakers are a little rare compared to larger ones, but I believe they do exist...

 

[drow]

You've got it wrong
1 20 amp breaker will only be 120volt
you have to use a doublebreaker for 240 (each pulling 120 off each leg in your breakerbox)
the amount of amp's your wiring can carry will determine
what size double breakers you can use(40 ,50, 60 amp)

I think you misunderstood me. I meant I have several DOUBLE POLE (240v) (2 120v) breakers. Or you believe 20a breakers only exist in 120v. Here is a pic that I use.



You can find this at any homedepot, lowes, most hardware shops. I didnt prompt to use a 30+a breaker because I only had 12AWG avail.

Now with that aside, what do most people do for their subpanel? (hooking up from a single circuit 240v to outlets)
Do they pigtail the 240v circuit to as many outlets as they want like they do on a 120v?

get good electrical book before doing anything. search in these forums for resources. wiring simplified is a good choice.
depends on what the 240v run was originally installed for/to. some 240v runs may only have 2 hots (each 120). this means there is no ground for both 120 runs.
can run 2 1k's off of that, but @ own peril. not code, but may work.
get good books, study, be patient. then, once info acquired, do your run(s), w/ knowledge of the hazards that may be involved.

hope this helps.

Im not using a previously existing 240v line. I have installed a 60a breaker into my main and used conduit to the subpanel.

I believe ALL doublepole (240v) have 2 HOTS. But not the question, sorry bud.
I have a com. contractor/electrician that do elec that are doing this... for my kiln and powertools, they asked me why I dont use seperate circuits, but the lowest 240v breaker there is was the 20a. Im not about to use 1 20a 240v circuit per 1 Light (that would be pointless, might as well go with a 15a 120v)
Im asking this question since they only use 1 circuit for 1 outlet for 240v on all their applications and never tried to pigtail anything other than a 120v. (I know its not code, I want to know what the rest of you are doing that arent burning your house down).
(they dont know because most 240v appliance/equip are over 20a and theres no need to put multiple things on a single breaker) (US on the otherhand use lights and they only consume 4-6amps and wouldnt want to waste that extra 16 amps)


Lets say we forget about the 20a, because theres no diff running a 20a and 40a+ circuit to multiple outlets? its all the same stuff at the end because we have to run a single circuit to multiple outlets.
What if I had a 40a 240v Circuit running into the subpanel. How would you apply that to all the lights. Would you pigtail the single 40a circuit to 6-8 240v outlets?
What do you all do for the subpanel? Run multiple outlets on a single 240v circuit?

 

[yamaha_1fan]

all your wires and wire nuts are rated up to 600V. SO I dont see why you couldnt create a pigtail, and run multiple outlets on one circuit. I would. Maybe use a Junction Box. They also sell distribution blocks that you can put in your main, then feed a few outlets from.

Heres a twist. If you use 120 outlets, you can use them to add more outlets instead of splicing/pigtail, etc since you will have the extra terminals. 120 outlets can handle 240, its just a plug configuration. Not sure if that would work for you with your cords ad ballasts though

 

[sparkjumper]

Yes you can pigtail and at less than 5 amps per fixture at 240V,you have plenty of leeway.I'd suggest using 120V receptacles and keeping the original 120V plugs on your fixtures,its a matter of switching one wire in the ballast casing.I run 3 1 K fixtures on a 2 pole 20 using 120V receptacles but I use 10 wire now.I use to use 12 for all three but after awhile my 2 pole 20 would trip.It wont with only 2 1K fixtures.

 

[ogkushmaster]

Im looking to find out the same thing. If one wants to wire a box for say 4 outlets at 240v for running ballasts?

 

[Philosophelon]

I pigtail a 240V 12AWG cable (in a big junction box) into 3x 20A outlets in my veg room. As long as you are not overloading the circuit, you will be fine. Your receptacles will allow you to draw more than the circuit is rated for, but as long as you know what you're doing (and it seems like you do) and don't overload the circuit, you'll be fine. Electrical codes are designed to protect people who don't know anything about electricity .

 

[drow]

Thanks guys, I/my elec can do it, but I was just wondering how everyone else did it, I was thinking either a pigtail or a daisy chain at first but I guess the pigtail works as well (I believe daisy chains arent allowed in the US as well (well code anyways but nothing we do is code). I think I remember you yamaha using a straight hot to a raw ballast?

Here is a couple pics, im getting connections on all of these. I just hope to put these to use this year when I get out of my current place.

 

[jocat]

other options

other options

you can pigtail these with splitbolts and tape and stuff the whole thing into a n outlet box and put a solid cover on it, i just did it using a intermatic 240v timer and running one power in and two out, one to each outlet, the timer has the wiring diagram inside the door and its a snap, this has worked perfectly for 8 months. jc

 

[I N Hail]

You've got it wrong
1 20 amp breaker will only be 120volt
you have to use a doublebreaker for 240 (each pulling 120 off each leg in your breakerbox)
the amount of amp's your wiring can carry will determine
what size double breakers you can use(40 ,50, 60 amp)

YES ..A single breaker of any amp's is 120 (1 POLE=120)


THE breaker you show is a double 20amp(40amp)20amp eachpole (2 POLE 120each=240)


...

 

[I N Hail]

I think you misunderstood me. I meant I have several DOUBLE POLE (240v) (2 120v) breakers. Or you believe 20a breakers only exist in 120v. Here is a pic that I use.



You can find this at any homedepot, lowes, most hardware shops. I didnt prompt to use a 30+a breaker because I only had 12AWG avail.

Now with that aside, what do most people do for their subpanel? (hooking up from a single circuit 240v to outlets)
Do they pigtail the 240v circuit to as many outlets as they want like they do on a 120v?




Im not using a previously existing 240v line. I have installed a 60a breaker into my main and used conduit to the subpanel.

I believe ALL doublepole (240v) have 2 HOTS. But not the question, sorry bud.
I have a com. contractor/electrician that do elec that are doing this... for my kiln and powertools, they asked me why I dont use seperate circuits, but the lowest 240v breaker there is was the 20a. Im not about to use 1 20a 240v circuit per 1 Light (that would be pointless, might as well go with a 15a 120v)
Im asking this question since they only use 1 circuit for 1 outlet for 240v on all their applications and never tried to pigtail anything other than a 120v. (I know its not code, I want to know what the rest of you are doing that arent burning your house down).
(they dont know because most 240v appliance/equip are over 20a and theres no need to put multiple things on a single breaker) (US on the otherhand use lights and they only consume 4-6amps and wouldnt want to waste that extra 16 amps)


Lets say we forget about the 20a, because theres no diff running a 20a and 40a+ circuit to multiple outlets? its all the same stuff at the end because we have to run a single circuit to multiple outlets.
What if I had a 40a 240v Circuit running into the subpanel. How would you apply that to all the lights. Would you pigtail the single 40a circuit to 6-8 240v outlets?
What do you all do for the subpanel? Run multiple outlets on a single 240v circuit?

OK I SEE
40amp /240v..total the amount of amps you want to use (light's.)
And stay 20% below your breaker amp's and pigtail ,pigtail

watts/volts=amps

1000w/110v(120)=9.09amp's
1000w/220v(240)=4.54 amp's

I N hail

 

[FoukeMonster]

you can pigtail these with splitbolts and tape and stuff the whole thing into a n outlet box and put a solid cover on it, i just did it using a intermatic 240v timer and running one power in and two out, one to each outlet, the timer has the wiring diagram inside the door and its a snap, this has worked perfectly for 8 months. jc

This is how it should be done imo, That the connections are done properly is very important. You can run 8 1000watt lights on a 2 pole 240v 40amp circuit using #8 wire if everythings nice and tight. Use splitbolts and insulate them good with rubber tape and then plain vinyl electrical tape.

 

[nephilthim]

mlc-4

mlc-4

mlc- 4 from cap uses a double pole 30 amp breaker connected by 10/3 romex or dryer range cable provides 4 240 volts connectionsb y running power thru a pair of high power relays into two seperate 240 receptacles they sell for 138 from bghydro.

 

[drow]

YES ..A single breaker of any amp's is 120 (1 POLE=120)


THE breaker you show is a double 20amp(40amp)20amp eachpole (2 POLE 120each=240)


OK I SEE
40amp /240v..total the amount of amps you want to use (light's.)
And stay 20% below your breaker amp's and pigtail ,pigtail

watts/volts=amps

1000w/110v(120)=9.09amp's
1000w/220v(240)=4.54 amp's

I N hail

Huh? not sure what youre getting at... I know what you are saying but Im not sure what point is trying to be made.

Correct me if Im wrong but IM POSITIVE THIS is a 20a 240v breaker (2hots one ground)(2 120v with two legs but called a 240volt 20amp breaker.) it can be used with 12AWG since its pulling >20a.
and If I thinking what youre TRYING TO SAY (its a 40a breaker) then you def do NOT want to run 40a on this breaker because it will trip at <20a. In 240v youre just running half per line. a double 110/120v 20A is still just a 20A 220/240v. (20a+20a does not = 40a)

and I should be only running at max of 3 lights. I was going to quote the other thing (kinda didnt make sense hah) you posted but I see you edited it
Im counting in the ballast draw as well, for everyone reading that doesnt take into account the ballast draw
the good ol ohms:
1k light + ballast = around 1152w / 240v = 4.8 amps
80% of 20a = 16amps max (continous draw should be 80% amperage allowance max)

so 3 lights should be on a 20a at the most. BUT.. Im only pulling 2 lights.

About the double 20a NOT equaling to a 40a: ALOT of people have this confused, and for some it takes some equations for people to understand this, but I believe this should clear it up?

1152w on a 120v = 9.6a
To convert to a 240v you have to : 9.6 amps / 2 (split into 2 legs (2-120v = 240v) = 4.8a on each leg

and this PROVES that this is NOT a 40a breaker. Like I said, when switching to 240v that amperage is divided to two legs its just a DOUBLE 20. Remember: a 240v is just 2 120v. So in reality you are pulling 9.6amps total, but its divided into two legs. The other 4.8amps didnt mysteriously disappear out of nowhere. YOURE NOT RUNNING HALF THE AMPS, 240v is just running HALF PER LINE.

I wanted to know what methods people used to split a single circuit into multiple outlets... but I believe I need to clear some misinformation here, Dont want people burning their house down or their breakers popping all the time.
Ive worked on comm. buildings and thats what they call it (but we dont use those, we usually work with 3phase). This breaker will pop if 20a have been exceeded and the max amperage should be 20a (or 16a at continous usage) it just has 2 legs, thats all. (sorry for the lack of understanding if I misunderstood you).

I know and If I dont know, one of my buddies will know how to wire everything up (pigtail/daisychains etc...)
I just wanted to know how everyone else setup their subpanel (whether they spliced/pigtailed/use junction boxes) but I think my setup is fine how it is (just a pigtail), unless a certified electrician can chime in and improve it, well that splitbolt seems very ideal, but its basically the same thing and if I decide to upgrade my current plywood setup for the outlets) I will use that splitbolt method (it will be def easier to upgrade to more boxes with a splitbolt).

nephilthim - Sorry I wanted to wire this one up and save me a bunch of $
I wont ever spent 150 on something I or one of my buds/coworkers can do easily. and the materials they use is exactly the same stuff, like that dryer kit is just a junction box with splitbolts. I could save myself about 100 bucks.

 

[sparkjumper]

A 2 pole 20A breaker isn't rated at 20 per pole or 40A amps bro,its rated at 20 amps at 240V,don't be confused folks.It works the same as a single pole breaker ratings-wise.You cant draw more than 16 amps on a 20A circuit whether its single pole or two pole.Try it and see lol

 

[I N Hail]

Huh? not sure what youre getting at... I know what you are saying but Im not sure what point is trying to be made.

Correct me if Im wrong but IM POSITIVE THIS is a 20a 240v breaker (2hots one ground)(2 120v with two legs but called a 240volt 20amp breaker.) it can be used with 12AWG since its pulling >20a.
and If I thinking what youre TRYING TO SAY (its a 40a breaker) then you def do NOT want to run 40a on this breaker because it will trip at <20a. In 240v youre just running half per line. a double 110/120v 20A is still just a 20A 220/240v. (20a+20a does not = 40a)

and I should be only running at max of 3 lights. I was going to quote the other thing (kinda didnt make sense hah) you posted but I see you edited it
Im counting in the ballast draw as well, for everyone reading that doesnt take into account the ballast draw
the good ol ohms:
1k light + ballast = around 1152w / 240v = 4.8 amps
80% of 20a = 16amps max (continous draw should be 80% amperage allowance max)

so 3 lights should be on a 20a at the most. BUT.. Im only pulling 2 lights.

About the double 20a NOT equaling to a 40a: ALOT of people have this confused, and for some it takes some equations for people to understand this, but I believe this should clear it up?

1152w on a 120v = 9.6a
To convert to a 240v you have to : 9.6 amps / 2 (split into 2 legs (2-120v = 240v) = 4.8a on each leg

and this PROVES that this is NOT a 40a breaker. Like I said, when switching to 240v that amperage is divided to two legs its just a DOUBLE 20. Remember: a 240v is just 2 120v. So in reality you are pulling 9.6amps total, but its divided into two legs. The other 4.8amps didnt mysteriously disappear out of nowhere. YOURE NOT RUNNING HALF THE AMPS, 240v is just running HALF PER LINE.

I wanted to know what methods people used to split a single circuit into multiple outlets... but I believe I need to clear some misinformation here, Dont want people burning their house down or their breakers popping all the time.
Ive worked on comm. buildings and thats what they call it (but we dont use those, we usually work with 3phase). This breaker will pop if 20a have been exceeded and the max amperage should be 20a (or 16a at continous usage) it just has 2 legs, thats all. (sorry for the lack of understanding if I misunderstood you).

I know and If I dont know, one of my buddies will know how to wire everything up (pigtail/daisychains etc...)
I just wanted to know how everyone else setup their subpanel (whether they spliced/pigtailed/use junction boxes) but I think my setup is fine how it is (just a pigtail), unless a certified electrician can chime in and improve it, well that splitbolt seems very ideal, but its basically the same thing and if I decide to upgrade my current plywood setup for the outlets) I will use that splitbolt method (it will be def easier to upgrade to more boxes with a splitbolt).

nephilthim - Sorry I wanted to wire this one up and save me a bunch of $
I wont ever spent 150 on something I or one of my buds/coworkers can do easily. and the materials they use is exactly the same stuff, like that dryer kit is just a junction box with splitbolts. I could save myself about 100 bucks.

LOL ,,Yes thats what i was trying to explane,,sorry for the confusion


,,,

 

[I N Hail]

A 2 pole 20A breaker isn't rated at 20 per pole or 40A amps bro,its rated at 20 amps at 240V,don't be confused folks.It works the same as a single pole breaker ratings-wise.You cant draw more than 16 amps on a 20A circuit whether its single pole or two pole.Try it and see lol

Yes ,,wasn't meaning to say you get 40A.,, A 20A is a 20A


Thanks
I N hail

 

[SKUNK420]

classic word play, he's saying he has 1 (as in single not single-pole) 20a 240v breaker. anything that is described as a 240v breaker at any amperage will of course be a double-pole breaker, correct?

Yes you can pigtail and at less than 5 amps per fixture at 240V,you have plenty of leeway.I'd suggest using 120V receptacles and keeping the original 120V plugs on your fixtures,its a matter of switching one wire in the ballast casing.I run 3 1 K fixtures on a 2 pole 20 using 120V receptacles but I use 10 wire now.I use to use 12 for all three but after awhile my 2 pole 20 would trip.It wont with only 2 1K fixtures.

hey sparkjumper i think your replied to my question about this subject. i wired mine from my timer to one outlet in a 4x4 box to give me more room for the 12/3 wire then using pig tails to the next outlet and so on down to line 4 total. three 600's and one 1k. i have only fired up the three 600's with no problem. so i'll have to wait and see if i have the same problem you had. also i didn't know it was a max 5 amps per outlet when wired like this for continous use or in this case 12 hours straight repeatly.