Strange Slime buildup on roots

[richyrich]

Re-read my last post for the amount to use. I stated in this thread several times. As far as using it the whole flower period, I don't know. When I called the company that makes Pysan, the lady on the phone said you could. I didn't want to try and find out. I think you will be the first if you do it. Let us know. Something tells me it will be ok. And, if it is this product will be the absolute best additive for a sterile resevoir. And its super cheap.

 

[purple_lemon]

awesome

awesome

thanks rich.. this thread is the best. this slime stuff has set my harvest back about 3 times already as soon as i use the hygrozyme. i threw that stuff away. i recommend hygrozyme for rockwool growers who want to dissolve the roots in the rockwool so that it can be re-used. it seemed like hygrozyme worked for me when i first bought it. but after it sat on the shelf for 5 months in an environment above 80 degrees , i think it started to go bad. i ordered physan 20 and I plan to never be set back again to this brown slime. i believe the slime is some type of evolved bacterial biofilm. i don't think it's algae. ...but i don't have a degree in microbiology so i'll let the experts figure it out. I just want to annihilate the slime for good. what is the ghost's name from that movie ghostbusters that was made of slime. thats what this slime shit is... it appears overnight and bam your screwed. I JUST FOUND THIS ON A WEBSITE!!!! NOTE: SM-90 will inhibit beneficial bacterial colonization. in other words. sm90- will make hydroguard useless. I used both on my grows where the slime was. WWWOOOOWWWW

 

[richyrich]

I did a little change up on my mother hydro system yesterday. Heres the scoop.

I have mothers in 5.5" square pots filled with hydroton. They are in a flood and drain tray with a recirculating rez. The algae has been very much alive in there for a long time now but I had learned how to control it. A chiller and Dutch Master Zone will tame it. I was still using Hygrozyme too because I needed something to eat dead roots in the pots because they get root bound quick, so you add the enzyme to eat old root mass and let the plant regenerate new roots.

So, here is what I wanted to do. I wanted bigger pots for more root mass for more clones off each mother. I wanted to turn my current set up into a top feed. Not necessarily a drip because I have open 1/4 lines running to each pot. So, I guess its more NFT. I have a recycle timer set to squirt for 1 minute every 15 minutes. The timer is great because it has turn knobs that you can set at what ever intervals you want.

Before I took things apart, I poured 2ml of Physan 20 per 10 gallons. I went double on the recommended dose. Today I can report no ill effects. The mothers look very perky and soaking up the light. I can also tell you that I did not flush everything out very good and I know there is still some Physan20 residue in my rez. I dont have a hydro system to try leaving Physan20 in the whole time anymore or I would try it. As far as my mother hydro system and I cant take that risk. I have some real elite strains.

The problem I have now is when I pulled the plants from the old pots there were a lot of rotten roots. I only have nutes and Zone in my rez right now and the pH and the PPMs are climbing every few hours. I think the roots rotting are causing this and it will not be long until root rot or the brown algae get a foot hold. I popped them in the new bigger pots as they were. This is where Hygrozyme comes in handy. It will eat up all that old root mass and make way for new healthy roots.

My course of action, I am going to wait until my mothers establish more new roots in there new roomy pots and then I am going to add the Hygrozyme to eat the old roots. Should take about 3-4 days for the enzymes to do their work from what I have seen. Then I will Physan20 the whole system and flush it out. Then I will go to just Advance Nutes and Dutch Master Zone and the chiller set at 65F. That is all that is needed.

 

[richyrich]

Yes, SM-90 cannot be used with beneficials. Also, don't use Zone, H2O2, Physan20 and I wouldn't use tap water because of the chlorine. These all will kill your beneficials.

H2O2 can be used with enzyme products such as Hygrozyme, Sensizyme and the others that I cant think of. Actually, you can use all sterile additives listed above with all enzymes and H2O2.

All enzyme products can be use together with beneficial products; Hydroguard, Root Excelurator, Pirahna, Scorpion Juice, Mycorrhizae, Sub-Culture and the rest. Absolutely no sterile products with these.

 

[space cowgirl]

Well, good luck getting your plants back to health everyone! The slime is the reason I went back to soil, myself.

 

[jarff]

It seems to me that Hygrozyme is only good when you absolutely need it for eating up the rotten roots when the problem pops up.Other then that it seems when using zyme it can cause algae,so it leads me to believe that I won,t use Hygrozyme until I get some root rot.It really seems that this thread has taught me the old catch 22 situation.You may be dammed if you do or dammed if you don,t
This thread really has me taking a lot better care of my plants and watching carefully for any bad stuff that may show up.It,s almost like starting all over again.I see it as a chnage from sticking the clones in my tables and takin, apeek at em form time to time to the point of actually having a problem to solve.In the end it will make a better grower of me...fingers crossed.Goin,into week two of a new show and everything is looking like never before.Usually at this stage I am cursing the brown herpe slime.
Hope we can all take something away from what we have learned here.
Richyrich my hat goes off to you for your diligence in doing a lot of reading and experimenting to try to bring this curse to at least a point where we can understnd the inner workings of the cause and effect of what plagues our hobby and hard work.
I personally feel good in the knowledge I have gained here..
*Hygrozyme is sold in Canada as Grozyme and in US as Hygrozyme.Don,t know if in fact it is made at one place and sent to different distributors to be sold from one source.The stuff I buy here in Canada is all written in French as it comes outta Quebec and I have noticed no two jugs of it are always the same.I do believe however it does have a longer shelf life then many additives.But the longer it sits the more it smells like beer with age.I will try it again this grow but not until three weeks before flushing time.I also will use it at about half strength or maybe a little stronger.I,ll keep close tabs on it to see if it does have any affect on the root system.
Funny thing with the Hyg,zyme is that I always had an idea that it was causing the alage but never really got it dialed in enuff to actually find any info that would substantiate my suspicion.I believe we are a lot closer to finding out if it is a product that is to be used with caution.
rant over
Good luck to all
be safe...
jarff

 

[richyrich]

I have not added Hygrozyme in my mother hydro system for a couple of days now. There for sure are some old roots rotting. I can see pieces in my rez. Funny thing so far is there is no herpe slime (brown algae). My pH has stabilized for the last 24 hours. The only thing I have in the rez since I changed the system over is Dutch Master Zone, RO water and Sensi A + B Grow. Oh, and the chiller at 68F. Lets see what happens over the next few days.

Here is the conversion.

 

[richyrich]

Purple Kush for next round. Can't wait.

 

[KUSHEATER1]

good job hope all goes well

 

[richyrich]

I have not added Hygrozyme in my mother hydro system for a couple of days now. There for sure are some old roots rotting. I can see pieces in my rez. Funny thing so far is there is no herpe slime (brown algae). My pH has stabilized for the last 24 hours. The only thing I have in the rez since I changed the system over is Dutch Master Zone, RO water and Sensi A + B Grow. Oh, and the chiller at 68F. Lets see what happens over the next few days.

Here is the conversion.

4 days since this conversion above and no herpe slime. I think I can say its gone. It would have made its presence known already. It will always change my pH quickly and so far it is rock solid. Also, the algae will always grow on my pH probe like the pic below and it has not thus far.

 

[richyrich]

The consensus in this thread is that Hygrozyme certainly plays a part in helping or even starting the brown algae. I have been following other threads where people are using the Hygrozyme in soil or non-recirculating rez's and are having great results. It has to be something do with the broken down material. It's herpe food. I, also, say in a recirculating rez use Hygrozyme with caution and only use it for a few days to do its job and then dump the rez. Refill rez with no Hygrozyme after. That is what I conclude after 2 years of battling this crap. I do not have it in my BioTerrra feed to waste room and now its gone in my mother recirculating NFT/drip system. Fingers crossed for now.

 

[ubet28]

The consensus in this thread is that Hygrozyme certainly plays a part in helping or even starting the brown algae. I have been following other threads where people are using the Hygrozyme in soil or non-circulating rez's and are having great results. It has to be something do with the broken down material. It's herpe food. I, also, say in a recirculating rez use Hygrozyme with caution and only use it for a few days to do its job and then dump the rez. Refill rez with no Hygrozyme after. That is what I conclude after 2 years of battling this crap. I do not have it in my BioTerrra feed to waste room and now its gone in my mother recirculating NFT/drip system. Fingers crossed for now.

Hey rich how did the zone workout i just picked some up and haven't used it yet. I am in water farms setup and i am not having the slime on rots but in my res i am getting white chunks and the water is vary cloudy and murky and pH is swinging up like a 1/2 point daily.

 

[richyrich]

In my opinion, Zone is the best product out there for keeping a sterile rez..

I don't know what your white chunks are. What are you adding to your rez. Without knowing anything else, I would dump that rez and then add plain water so you can h2O2 everything for a few hours. Then I would fill your rez as normal and add the Zone at 1.1 ml per gallon.

It's important to know what kind of water you are using. If its tap, you can get pH swings, but they shouldn't be to quick.

Another thing, if you have a single WaterFarm, the rez is not very big and that will cause quick pH fluctuations if you have a very thirsty plant. When this happens, the pH usually goes down though.

Give more info on what you have in your rez. and your water temperature.

 

[jarff]

Richyrich..do you use the Zone all the time or just occasionally?...I need to order from Ebay as I can,t find it anywhere within a hundred miles.Is it available in gallons.
*This thread sure has peeked a lot of interest..good to see ppl. finding out what may be the cause of their alage.....My grow is two weeks in and they have never looked so good.I corrected another problem which was feeding too much at the start of 12/12.On other grows within three weeks I had a lot of spotted leaf,which was caused no doubt from feeding too much.I hope this doesn,t show up this time.Been readin,other threads and am going with the "more is less" attitude.
Carry on ..keep us up to date on your results from your plants..
be safe
jarff

 

[richyrich]

Richyrich..do you use the Zone all the time or just occasionally?...I need to order from Ebay as I can,t find it anywhere within a hundred miles.Is it available in gallons.
*This thread sure has peeked a lot of interest..good to see ppl. finding out what may be the cause of their alage.....My grow is two weeks in and they have never looked so good.I corrected another problem which was feeding too much at the start of 12/12.On other grows within three weeks I had a lot of spotted leaf,which was caused no doubt from feeding too much.I hope this doesn,t show up this time.Been readin,other threads and am going with the "more is less" attitude.
Carry on ..keep us up to date on your results from your plants..
be safe
jarff

I use Zone all the time in hydro now. Well, acutally, I have been for the last 6 months. I add 1.1 ml per gallon every rez change. Use through the whole grow. A 1 liter bottle will last a long time and costs around $20 US.

Mothers in hydro NFT/drip hybrid are still doing great.

The crop I was salvaging has made a remarkable turnaround. The roots were rotting from the smothering by the algae. I put them in 5 gallon buckets of the new Canna product line Bio Canna Bio Terra medium. Phenomenal growth when I expected them to die off. They were already in their 3rd week of flower. I looked at the bottom of the 5 gallon bucket and white pearly roots were already coming out of the bottom in only one week after the transplant. Amazing. I'm koo koo for coco now.

 

[Cranberry]

What a Club,

brown algae haters

I also have been plagued with this crud. Started when I decided to run organics in my buckets. What a great Idea that was..

I've been fighting this for almost a year and I feel I have a better handle on it. Organics can be used!!!! It just takes the proper bacteria. hmm

Get yourself a 39.whatever microscope and get all scientific on it, its freaky to say the least. I was blown away to see the activity, epidemic in the making.

I looked into the aquaculture industry to see how they deal with bacteria in fish farms, and digestion of cellulose. A whole different avenue that I have not seen mentioned in hydroponics. Many of us are taking organics and trying to run them in warm water with lots of dissolved oxygen and steady movement. Why am I not surprised that bad things come of this as well as good.

I really want to run organics for some reason despite the troubles I am having. So for this round I am trying something new. I am trying bacteria that will eat the organic matter converting it to CO2 and nitrogen. Hygrozyme is used to provide strong enzymes, and isn't killed off from calcium peroxide. Not that I can see in my 39.whatever microscope.

If God was in town wouldn't he grow from the ground?

I will keep posted to how well this is working. this might be the cure some of us are looking for.

 

[richyrich]

Yup, this is turning out to be quite a club. I never thought so many people would be experiencing the same problem. Before I got control of it, I thought I was the only person cursed with it. For years I searched for answers and was always given the same ol' root rot deal and what to do for it.

I have no problems and everything is quite easy for me now. Though, I am still interested in finding a way to beat the brown algae with beneficials. So far all the ones sold by hydro companies don't do squat crap. What bacterias are you speaking of. I too have looked toward aquarium and aquaponics chat boards for answers. Didn't really find anything to beat it off. Such as beneficial bacterias fending off bad bacteria (root rot). I just went after complete neutralization with Physan20 or containment with Zone.

Keep us posted on your work. This algae still intrigues me.

 

[Flasht2]

Brown Algae Haters Club Member

Brown Algae Haters Club Member

I borrowed your Physan 20 idea and put it to use. I'm still trying to make it through this cycle and for now at least it looks like I will be able to with only about 3 losses. (should have 17 or 18 out of 22) I doubt I have many beneficials left after adding the Physan to battle the algae but either way I'm going to keep trying to finish this out without a flush.

The directions also state that you can continue to add it once a week... if the plants continue to look ok I just might do that as a preventative... not sure yet.

I just wish I never had the higher temps in the first place and you can be damn sure I wont the next go-around. I also never get power outtages that last over an hour and of course I happened to have one that was very long... that didn't help any.

My current water temps now run from about 63f w/lights off, up to a max of about 73f lights on. The room iteself isn't far off of those temps.. the air gets higher but the a/c helps keep it under 83. I'd say that's an acceptable range. I will also do a better job of light proofing everything. I didn't think that it would be as important as it seems to be. Hell, I even had one bucket just circulating with absolutely nothing covering it. I thought it might be a good way for more bene's to enter the system but with my higher temps earlier on, I suppose it was just a potential breeding ground for that algae.

So, I am officially in the Brown Algae Haters Club! I await my hat and t-shirt.

FlashT

 

[richyrich]

So, I am officially in the Brown Algae Haters Club! I await my hat and t-shirt.

FlashT

Ha, this is getting really funny now. We are gonna have to come up with a design and visit the silk screener.

Glad to hear it worked for you. You might consider the Dutch Master Zone to contain the algae. It has worked good for me. But, I think you will be the first to use the Physan weekly if you do. Do let us know how it goes at the haters club.

Oh, and on water temps; the algae was growing still when I had my chiller dead locked on 62F. Water temps don't really keep it away. Now if we talk about the root rot that is cause by bad bacteria, not algae, then water temps are very important. Just my experience.

 

[richyrich]

I forgot my update.

No signs of algae in my mother hydro system. It was heavily plagued until I Physaned it. Advanced nutes, Zone and a chiller and it has not come back. Hooray. Been nearly a week.