Strange Slime buildup on roots

[jarff]

coolx ...I was thinkin, bout the Hygrozyme which I always figured was a miracle additive.Been watchin, how the zyme does put a layer of slime in my reservoir..It even plugs up the airstones that i,m usin to add o2.
I have come to the conclusion that next time I,m gonna run GH three part with Kool Bloom...that is all ..no Grozyme ,Floralicious,etc.I think when you add too much of anything in some systems it creates a witches brew that can indeed be poison to your plants.I def. learned a lot this time around in regards to additives including Grozyme.I alos think I,m gonna change my set-up to e/f.seems it is a good way for me.
The type of set u[ i,m usin,now is a 4x4 table about 6" deep which I fill with nutes and I have about 8 air stones all of which are 12"..with two GH four outlet lines pumpin a lot of oxygen causing a lot of froth.Many ppl in my area are using this same system and with 12 plants per table are getiin form 1 to 1.5 #per table.Been told this wouldn,t work but it is working for the most part and it is real simple.Drain tables after a week and fill with fresh nutes.No actual res. as the table it self is the reservoir..problem I see is that plants are immersed im nutes 24/7....Seen some of these very same sets with a dozen 4x4 tables.It is so easy and maintenance free. some friends only check their places once a week.I guess it is SWC?
As for my ph it is holding rock steady at 5.8 which was never the case before..It used to go up into the high 6,s..I was always addin, down.I have no root rot this time,and my plants are about 7/10 days from chop.I don,t have the amount of buds I somtimes do.Seems I,m between a rock and a hard place..by not using additives from day one.but risking getting root rot half way through..This time intoroduced additives late without rot but my yield is gonna suffer.Time for a change to a different system...I have learned a lot this last time and it will help in the future.It,s a hobby and a challenege to get to a spot where I am satisfied to be doing what I enjoy...I only need it for medicine and alawyas have plenty for me and friends..Thanx for the input every bit helps.
be safe
jarff

 

[jarff]

I,m 5 days from chop and things are lookin, good.Colas are filling in good and no sign of root rot.I had an over fert prob which didn,t completely recover but I did have a lot of new fresh growth.Cut the feed to about half for the last two weeks and I,m now flushing and will for the next 5 days.I am gonna have a good yield as compared to the times I got root rot.
So my plan for future grows is to start off without any additives til third week,cut back on the ferts,use h202 if I get any sign of algae and keep my fingers crossed.
I got some Physan 20 which I will use to disinfect all my gear.Do a good clean up and light -tight everything.Also thinking of using more 600,s with Hortilux,and cut back on some of the 1K,s.Found out this time the 600,s I was using are prob doing almost as good as the 1k,s for the set up I have.All my lights are air cooled but the bigger lights still bleach the top of the plants causing a lot of crispy leaf and buds.Thanx for all the help and suggestions.Will give a final tally of weight after the chop and cure.
be safe
jarff

 

[ItsGrowTime]

Good report jarff. Glad you got it straight! Good info for everyone.

 

[madx]

i got my physan 20 a few days ago. there is a warning about not to use it in any type of irrigation system, only hard surfaces ?. i gave my 3 m2. dutch pot aero some of this stuff and the garden hose i used to drain the res. was getting slimey and "eaten" by the physan , so i am a little concerned about my feedlines being eaten inside out ?.. i thought my system was clean before i used this, i have run lemon acid and bleach through 3 times and it looked clean, but after physan there was "alot" of brown stuff sufacing in my resoir. btw. i newer used any additives just the 3 part GHE. stuff, so i am not sure if it´s the additives that makes the slime. i am currently looking into the grodan starter cubes which i think is the cause it started here, they have gone from being golden and clean to a disgusting green color and almost all of them have black stuff in them, i have started new seeds in them and with only ro.water they got algae and fungus in them only 3 days after startup and they smell like old shoes so i am ordering some from another country, hoping they will be better/cleaner. i have tried to lightproof my system, what a big pain in the *** but i think i got it 100% dark and there is no sign of slime on the airstones which was the first place to be "slimed" before,ill be planting the new batch in a few days and get back with hopefully slimefree news

 

[jarff]

madx...I hear ya on the Physan..it,s potent shit,but I don,t think it would eat up any of your lines etc.I think maybe just some gunk that the Physan is cleaning out...mabbe I,m wrong but I used it on some hoses I had and they came out cleaner then clean..You have to go easy with the Physan..it doesn,t need much to do a job.sometimes it calls for a teaspoon per gallon of water.I soaked a bunch of air stones a little too much with Physan and man I had almost like soap suds all over the place and it took a lot of time to get it all out ..but I guarantee the stones are algae free.
I,m wit ya on the reason for the slime.It seems it can pop up from anything...I don,t believe the additives is the culprit at the moment in all instances..altho it did seem to be the reason for my algae growth.I use Grozyme and I noticed it caused slime on my air stones.I could literally wipe it off with a knife...My grow is being chopped tomorrow and I have no root rot and never got any slime throughout the 8 week grow.I did use some Hygrozyme,but very little.I also used Floralicious bloom and Cal Mag about half way thru but it didn,t produce any bad results...
I,m gonna try some more experimenting next crop .Gonna eliminate the Grozyme and perhaps try Cannazyme as it seems to be a bit more stable as I used it about a year ago and it didn,t cause any slime on my air stones like the Hygrozyme did.
And btw I am pleasantly surprised at the amount of colas on my plants...almost looks like one of the best in the past year.I grow small plants with about an oz. per plant at best..I think i,ll surpass this on this show...keepin, my fingers crossed..
good luck to ya,ll
be safe
jarff

 

[jarff]

Last postid a chop past two days and very happy with results.Will prob average 1.25# per 1K light which is tops for me.This is prob the first time I never ended up with any root rot.The roots are stained from the Floralicious but def no slimey stinky roots to be found.The plants were abnormally branchy with a bit of immature popcorn buds but even these little buds are tasty.
Also the buds are unusally sticky this time out .I grabbed the first plant last night to put thru the trimmer and my hands were covered with sugar.....Had to get out the latex gloves.
Totally finished at day 52...the clones I use are supposedly called Heavy Duty!!!.I guess everything needs a name.But they are very tasty when cured properly.Nice taste and nice buzz.
I,m takin, a months vacation and gettin back in time for a Sept start up,gonna do a good clean up with the Physan 20 and gettin, some new gear.
If this thread did anything for me it def was the fact that I can now actually understand the difference between root rot anf algae growth.I am satisfied that if I get some algae startin,out that I can prob.rectify the problem by not adding too much feed and additives for at least two weeks ,til the plants get a good head start.
Thanx for all the ppl who added good info...it was much appreciated....next time I,ll have a cam and will finally be able to show off the results of mywork...lol
And I,m not too old to learn.Gettin, ready to turn 60 and I am as giddy as school girl,I have got more spark in my step....
be safe
see ya,ll next time around...
jarff

 

[magoo420]

YEP, YOU'VE BEEN ROOT SLIMED.....I HAD THEIRS PROBLEM BEFORE, IT SEEMS THAT HIGH TEMPS ARE THE MOST TO BLAME AND HYGIENE. GET YOUR WATER TEMP INTO THE HIGH 60'S DO LOTS OF CHANGE OUTS AND I USED ZONE BY DUTCH MASTER ....FOR ME IT WORKED THE BEST.....GOOD LUCK

 

[jarff]

hi Magoo...yep I got slimed lol...Hey I,m gonna try the Zone stuff ...someone else had mentioned it a few posts back.Funny thing about this time around I had my best show ...If the next one is as good I,l be a happy hippy...I,m gonna cut back on the Hygrozyme...I know ppl swear by it but I think that,s where the slime starts in my environment.I was using 8 ml /gallon but last time I cut it back to 4 ml/gal and voila no root rot..I,m gonnna go on the "less is more" principle....
Thanx for the info bout,Zone..I,ll give it a whirl..
be safe
jarff

 

[richyrich]

Wow, I forgot all about this thread. Glad you all benefited by learning that this slime crap was actually brown algae. I feel you jarff. I went hell bent to figure out what this stuff was. I tried everything, really everything. Physan20 is better than bleach for cleaning. Zone is the best for running sterile. Root Excelurator is best for running beneficials. Hygrozyme does seem to help get the slime going. Running water at 65F and below will not stop the slime. Use 1ml per 10 gallons of Physan20 in a hydro system with plants.

After figuring it out and using everything available, would you believe I got it again. The **** will make you go crazy. I said **** it and had to do away with the re-circulating system. Feed to waste and you will have no problems. You don't need a chiller, no more PPM adjustments and no more chasing the pH.

The **** is like herpes for hydro. It just pops up when it wants to.

 

[jarff]

richyrich welcome back....thought you mighta,got covered in slime or the Physan got to ya....that Physan is potent shite....
Man there is no rhyme nor reason for the algae...some ppl. seem to never have a problem with it and others like us are cursed......altho,my last show turned out O.K. I agree on the G,zyme bein, the possible culprit in startin the algae but I,m still doin, some experimentin,to see if I can actually satisfy myself that it is in fact the case.All it takes is time......
I won,t use the zyme when startin clones..I use Rhizotonic which is good medicine.I won,t use the G,zyme till week two or three then it,s at half strength.
I think I,ll do the feed to waste also.GH ferts are cheap so it is good insurance.
I,m doin, some soil also which is givin me more yield......
Can,t find any Zone in the local shops so gonna hafta pay double to get it shipped here,,but it,s OK if it does some good.
1ml./10gallons water for the Physan eh....man it,s powerful stuff.I washed the cement floor with it and was walking on it while it was still wet and I could feel my feet burnin,thru the soles of my shoes lol.A gallon of the shite will last 20 yrs.
Keep us up to date man an,i,ll do likewise...I sometimes dream of algae bein, burnt by Physan,and throwin Hygrozyme on it to try to put the fire out....oops time to take my pils.
be safe
jarff

 

[richyrich]

Everything is good since going feed to waste. I use just about the same amount of nutes I did in the recirculating res. each week.

I hand water every 2nd or 3rd day, its a breeze. Beats going in the grow and checking twice a day because of all the problems for the last couple of years. When I get to it, I will make a drip to waste. Then I can really kick back and go in once a week like it should of been. Just like you said, I have so many parts and equipment, I could just do it now. I have so much stuff it's unbelievable because if this crap.

I highly recommend the feed to waste. All you will need are base nutes and beneficials. No more H202, Zone, SM-90, Hydroguard and enzymes. You can go back to all of your additives too and not have to worry about them sparking off any algae or actual bad bacteria root rot since a lot of them just feed these buggers.

Yup, feed to waste is the way. It was the only way I could stop the hydro herpes.

 

[richyrich]

BROWN ALGAE!!!!!!!! It's our problem. I dont think folks here know that it is not root rot. There is not much info here. I just read your whole thread on your issues. Nothing gets rid of it. Right now I my pH is slowly rising every day. No sign of the slime, but I know its around because of the pH. I have always used RO water and my pH always stays rock solid until I changed to flood buckets and to a different resevoir.

Research the brown algae on the net. You will find that it likes organics and dont even need much light if any. Most advice for root rot is not going to cut it. Most info on brown algae is gonna be found along with aquarium talk. I am gonna find the physan 20 and try that. Also, the aquarium talk says to use antibiotics. Its algae, not root rot. Disregard all info for root rot because it is gonna drive you crazy. I have had a chiller always this whole time set at 64-65. Rot dont live in that. It is algae. BROWN ALGAE. Its a mother f**cker.

I wanted to make sure I gave a much appreciated thank you to snowdog27. Earlier in this thread he mentioned it to be a sort of algae. From there I researched a lot on the net to get to the bottom of it. Because like you jarff, I was fed up. Everyone wants to say its root rot, but it wasnt. So, when you try there recommendations and they dont work you go crazy. I did this for 2 years also.

There are a lot of view on this thread and I know its gonna help a lot of people. I still think its worthy of a sticky. I wish I would have found this thread long ago. I thank everybody for their input because I feel a lot better with that monkey off my back.

 

[jarff]

I,ve seen other threads on the same topic..algae.Seems ppl. are really starting to notice it for what it really is...Lots of growers never have a problem with it,but there are lots who automatically think it is root rot. I hate to go thru all the work of starting a grow and in a week seeing the algae..happened so many times.So many times I let it go and eventually end up with root rot and having a low yield...Hate wasting good nutes,power,times,and the frustration,of knowing I could have dome much better if not for the algae.Yeppers this thread def. got my mind working in the right direction and there is a light at the end of the tunnel...
good luck to you richyrich.
I,ll keep postin,on this thread with the new grow I,m just getting off the ground....things are lookin, good after a week.I never used any Hygrozyme yet......
enhow luck be with you
be safe
jarff

 

[richyrich]

Yep, I think people here have taken notice of this brown algae. I have seen several posts actually discussing this algae and then leading back to this thread. It surely deserves attention because I couldn't figure it out until, well, you have all seen what I posted in this thread. I know it will help a lot of people.

 

[richyrich]

BROWN ALGAE

THE HERPES OF HYDRO

The brown funk in person.

 

[richyrich]

If you want to know more, a lot of info can be found in aquarium talk. I stated previously, it does not need very much light and it likes organics. I had everything light proofed and still had it. I was using non-organics, but when using Hygrozyme, what do you think all the old root mass turns into when the enzymes break it down. Food for the algae and its organic. One time I added CarboLoad, and there was a damn explosion in my res.. Again, that additive feeds these critters.

Read this tidbit...

This is often the first algae to appear in a newly set-up tank, where conditions have yet to stabilise. It will often appear around the 2-12 week period, and may disappear as quickly as it arrived when the conditions stabilise after a couple of months. It is essential to minimise nutrient levels to ensure the algae disappears - avoid overfeeding and carry out the appropriate water changes, gravel and filter cleaning, etc. Limiting the light will not deter this algae, as it can grow at low lighting levels and will normally out-compete green algae under these conditions.

If brown algae appears in an established tank, check nitrate and phosphate levels. Increased water changes or more thorough substrate cleaning may be necessary. Using a phosphate-adsorbing resin will also remove silicates, which are important to the growth of this algae. However, as noted above, it is essentially impossible to totally eliminate algae with this strategy alone. Due to its ability to grow at low light levels, this algae may also appear in dimly lit tanks, where old fluorescent bulbs have lost much of their output. If a problem does occur, otocinclus catfish are known to clear this algae quickly, although you may need several for larger tanks, and they can be difficult to acclimatise initially.

There are some very plausible theories as to why this algae often appears in newly set up tanks and then later disappears. If the silicate (Si) to phosphate (P) ratio is high, then diatoms are likely to have a growth advantage over true algae types and Cyanobacteria. Some of the silicate may come from the tapwater, but it will also be leached from the glass of new aquaria, and potentially from silica sand/gravel substrates to some extent. Later, when this leaching has slowed, and phosphate is accumulating in the maturing tank, the Si ratio will change in favour of phosphate, which is likely to favour the growth of green algae instead.

 

[jarff]

When you mentioned Carboload I had visions of the mess I had one time when I had added it to my fert routine.It pretty much put an end to about a month,s work.It was the liquid type and I call it glue.I panicked and added a bit of peroxide and man what a mess.All the nice fish bone roots I had just dropped off the plants and were eaten up by the slime.
How,s things goin in your own show ...you are doin,drain to waste?I,m still sluggin it our with the bubbler thing only because the clones were ready and I didn,t have time to change my set-up.I am feeding them ever so little fert on start up and they are lookin, better then ever.No Hygrozyme yet.I,ll introduce it in third week at half dosage.
I also figured out I was over feedin and have gone to half dosage of feed routine.until third or fourth week then I will up EC to what it calls for with GH....after a year and half of problems I am takin,this on as an experiment type grow.I am mainly concerned with getting enuff yield to keep myself happy.I,m not doin a whole lot of reasearch as I am kinda restricted health wise,so I appreciate what you send in.Much appreciated.,
Keep up the good work
be safe
jarff

 

[richyrich]

From my heavy experience with this stuff, I will say.

If anybody gets this brown algae, you have to get Physan20 immediately. 1ml per 10 gallons of water. Dump straight into resevoir. Leave it in for 24 hours and then dump, flush and make a new resevoir. Even after this, it will still be in your system, the spores. To completely get it out of your hydro system would be a complete tear down and soaking in bleach or Physan20. Even then, as I have found out, you may not be rid of it for good. The spores are so small we cant even see them. My room must of been filled with them because I still was getting it. I did the whole bleach wipe down and all in my room. I even put an ozone generator in the room for days to kill everything inside. Ozone is supposed to kill spores. At least that is what they say. When I say I tried everything, I really did.

I will tell you one thing I am still doing in my mother hydro system. My mothers are still in a ebb n flow tray. The mothers are healthy. But, the brown algae is very much alive in the resevoir. Out of trying everything, the only thing that will contain it is Dutch Master Zone. I have everything else and it did no good. Even 35% H2O2 is no good. So, to this day I still use Hygrozyme in that system to break down old root mass on the mothers and Dutch Master Zone and Sensi A + B only. The algae is under control. Also, chiller has the water set at 65F. This is the only way I have found to contain it.

For flowering, I am salvaging a grow as usual because I started in DWC re-circulating. on the 3rd week the hydro herpes popped up. I switched over to a mix of coco, peat moss, and pearlite. The plants are just now recovering and they look very perky and are greening up. That tells me the roots are healthy and happy. I will see what comes of it because they were already in flower.

I have clones about ready to pop real soon. They will go into the same coco, peat moss and perlite mix. No hydro at all for them. Feed to waste from the get go. I have high expectations now.

I too used CarboLoad the liquid kind. Never again. Its like elmers glue. Another thing to stay away from is Barricade, like glue too and makes the pH go crazy.

And, did you notice that in the tidbit I posted above, brown algae usually strikes aquariums beginning in the 2nd week of newly established aquariums. When I would start my new hydro systems, it would take hold on the second and third week when I would notice it. I think it has some correlation there. And you may have some good reasoning to hold off on some of the additives until the plants are established to fend off the algae from getting a foot hold.

Another thing mentioned is that it likes silicates. There are silicates in a lot of additives out there. For one the Barricade i just mentioned. I believe it is Potassium Silicate. The additive is supposed to protect your roots. What a laugh. When I tried it, it probably just fed the damn algae even more.

Thinking back, what a nightmare. I am on the bandwagon with dumping the additives. A lot of it is just marketing and companies wanting to take your money. I will list what I would buy and have stocked up.

Any base nutes and if you go organic be careful.
Root excelurator for beneficials
Hydroguard is good and cheap for protection if everything else is in line
If you use either of these bacterial additives, dont use tap water, you will kill them, get RO water.
A chiller if you cant get temps under 70F for hydro
Dutch Master Zone if you want to go sterile
A bottle of Physan20 for sure. Use this instead of bleach. Can be used in the resevoir and for clean up.
A flavor booster like Floralicious.
A bloom booster like Big Bud.
And if you want the best additive of them all, add a CO2 system to your grow.

Thats about it. Its too bad I own half a hydro store in supplies myself. I dont even know what to do with it all. Maybe I will go feed all the plant outside. With all these nutes and additives, it might be a jungle out there in a week. Better than sending it all down the drain.

 

[SensiMilla024]

Just wanted to drop by and share my experience.

I was getting alot of foam, brown foam. Couldn't figure out what it was.

Changed rez, and added my regular program, and bam, it was back again.

Come to find out it really was the Hygrozyme, I couldn't believe it.

Left tons of particulate matter, brown hazy water and stained my roots.

The weirdest part of it all, is that I used the exact same bottle last grow round

and It didn't have this effect, weird.

I am just running Lucas and h202 now, everythings A-O-K. Thanks God!


I think I'll send Hygrozyme an e-mail with a link to this thread.

At $44 a bottle. . . . . .shouldn't be messing things up, ya know what i mean?

 

[purple_lemon]

help me

help me

does anyone know how much physan to use per gallon in a hydro setup. for how long? can i keep it in my res for the whole flowering period?