Still having some problems

[shovelhead]

These 2 plants are clones,currently under a 150 HPS,lights on 17/7. 10 days or so ago I repotted them. Been having problems ever since,see my previous post. Although I found evidence of some type of insects,I don't believe they are the problem,not themain problem anyway. I sprayed them once with some pyrtheum[sp?]. Since the problem started i have
1, repotted again into unamended soil,does contain lime
2, sprayed for insects once,lightly
3, fed a light dose of Peters 30-15-30
4, four days later fed a medium dose of Fox Farms grow big
5 topped off the soil with Miracle gro organic soil
6 bought some test strips at Wal mart,for aquariums,all I could find in this one horse town. They test ph,alkaline,hardness,etc.
Testing the runoff shows low ph. I sprinkled a teaspoon of blood meal into each pot.
When they were first transplanted,I used water that I found in one of my kitchen cabinets that had been in an old milk jug for at least 8 years. My wife is a hoarded,and we live with a shallow well,the water is harder than Chinese arithmetic. The jugs were starting to deteriorate,a couple I picked up just split,I don't like to waste water,so I used one,could this be the problem ,messed up the ph?
Couple of more questions
Are the $25 ph testers,hanna,milwaulkee I saw on e-bay worth the
money?

Should I just give up on these plants and move on?

One I have no clones from,could clones be taken from plants this unhealthy?

 

[sproutco]

Here is what I said 7 days ago.

Calcium seems to help with toxicity problems. If you have no dol. lime in the new soil, you can add calcium and magnesium to your fert water if needed by using 1/4 teaspoon of both epsom salts and gypsum per gallon of water. Do this every third or fourth time you fert with dol. lime in the soil and everytime when no lime being used.

The following is a good veg formula with grow big:
Per gallon of water:
1.5 teaspoons grow big 6-4-4
1/8 teaspoon potassium nitrate
1/4 teaspoon powdered gypsum
1/8 teaspoon epsom salts

2/3 strength for seedlings and 1.5x for faster growth in high light (watch for burning)

Potassium nitrate is the ingredient in some tree stump removers. Dexol and greenlight are two possible brands. Check the label at hardware stores. Call around. Here is a manufacturor for dexol products. Send them an email to find a distributor near you:
[email protected]
Value Garden Supply, LLC
9100 W. Bloomington Freeway Suite 113
Bloomington, MN 55431
Phone: 952-884-6477 Fax: 952-884-6149

Gypsum you can find at good garden centers. Local garden centers rather than chain stores may give you a better chance of finding it. Hoffman is a brand. To find a hoffman dealer near you send them an email:
Good Earth, Inc.
Marketing Department
P.O. Box 290
Lancaster, NY 14086
Tel: 716-684-8111
Fax: 716-684-3722
[email protected]

Be sure to adjust the ph of your fert water after mixing to about 6 for best results.

Stop using bloodmeal.

I have never seen 30-15-30 peters...are you sure its not 15-30-15? If you use this instead of fox farms, try 3/4 teaspoon per gallon of water. You would add 1/4 teaspoon powdered gypsum + 1/8 teaspoon epsom salts every third time you use this with dol. lime in the soil and everytime when no lime or levels are low.

Both peters and grow big contain a little magnesium. This is why you use only 1/8 teaspoon epsom salts instead of 1/4 teaspoon.

 

[Guest]

now pic one thats a unhappy plant

 

[Dr Green]

If possible, give them a good flushing with pure RO water. Any water store sells it and its cheap. let them rest and get a little on the dry side and I am not sure but it looks like a case of mites is what you had......sorry...

Wish I could be of more help...

 

[Guest]

i think sproutco has it covered...apparently 8 days ago

 

[MynameStitch]

yup agreed!

 

[SouthernSmoker]

ok Im confused on the info

ok Im confused on the info

shovelhead You posted nute burn on the site on 11/5/06 and now you are posting problems still after a repot and adding blood meal and a 15-30-15 to your plants !
sproutco has offered a mixture of cal and mag and not sure what else to sove your problem . Also a ph of 5.8 to 6.0
DrGreen has offered a good flushing for them (Bravo)
Mynamestitch has agreeed . not sure to what
so now my two cents worth
Your plants are burning up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You have taken a plant that is in fert stress and repotted it and added more ferts to it. You have not given them any time for recovery 7 days is not nearly enough for them to recover from fert burn. The new growth on your plants has a lime green center this tells me you are on your way to burning them somemore please flush these plants out with 3 to 5 times the size of the pot with water( if 3gal then 15gal of water ).{ you could also use a 1/4 strenghth fert as a flushing agent .} Then give them time to dry out almost completely and start feeding again with 1/2 strength nutes they should recover nicely @ 2 to 3 weeks
Also I have found that a PH of 6.4 to 6.8 in soiless mix keeps my plants real happy


Hope this helps and keep them Happy they will repay you for it in the end !!!

 

[kokua]

yup agreed!^

I'm sorry, but sproutco's advice 7 days earlier was less than stellar. ShovelHead is obviously a newer grower looking for advice on how to remedy his plants and sproutco came back with

Calcium seems to help with toxicity problems. If you have no dol. lime in the new soil, you can add calcium and magnesium to your fert water if needed by using 1/4 teaspoon of both epsom salts and gypsum per gallon of water. Do this every third or fourth time you fert with dol. lime in the soil and everytime when no lime being used.

The following is a good veg formula with grow big:
Per gallon of water:
1.5 teaspoons grow big 6-4-4
1/8 teaspoon potassium nitrate
1/4 teaspoon powdered gypsum
1/8 teaspoon epsom salts

2/3 strength for seedlings and 1.5x for faster growth in high light (watch for burning)

Potassium nitrate is the ingredient in some tree stump removers. Dexol and greenlight are two possible brands. Check the label at hardware stores. Call around. Here is a manufacturor for dexol products. Send them an email to find a distributor near you:
[email protected]
Value Garden Supply, LLC
9100 W. Bloomington Freeway Suite 113
Bloomington, MN 55431
Phone: 952-884-6477 Fax: 952-884-6149

Gypsum you can find at good garden centers. Local garden centers rather than chain stores may give you a better chance of finding it. Hoffman is a brand. To find a hoffman dealer near you send them an email:
Good Earth, Inc.
Marketing Department
P.O. Box 290
Lancaster, NY 14086
Tel: 716-684-8111
Fax: 716-684-3722
[email protected]

Be sure to adjust the ph of your fert water after mixing to about 6 for best results.

WTF is that supposed to mean? I'm no noob...as a matter of fact I am fairly confident I know quite a bit more than your average green thumb, I have no clue what your wanting SH to do here? Whats your point sproutco? Calcium? Gypsum? Potassium Nitrate? Are you seriously asking this obvious newer grower to source out Potassium nitrate and gypsum to solve a toxicity? When you know, and I know the best answer is FLUSH FLUSH FLUSH.

ShovelHead...identify the bugs and eliminate them, and flush with proper pH water and let dry out good between waterings. Go to your local garden center or go to one of the many available online shops and get yourself some quality goods. If you want suggestions on specifics ask. Ask us, ask the store you buy from, ask anyone but sproutco kidding...kidding. Lighten up

 

[kokua]

also...some brand pyrethrins will burn the foliage like you see in your pics...Remember old growth that is already effected will not regenerate, once it is damaged it is damaged. Check the newer clean growth for further damage. If you continue to see the damage, then it was a nute burn and the flush is helping, keep with the flush and the plant will recover fine. If the damage isn't spreading then it could be the spray. If you have bugs you will want to continue to spray, so this method of diagnosis wont necessarily work...now I'm crazy

Pyrethrin's are a good general use... but you really should identify the bugs your seeing. And besides, if it is burning your plants you might want to try something else.

 

[sproutco]

Thanks for the negative reputation

Thanks for the negative reputation

Calcium? Gypsum? Potassium Nitrate? Are you seriously asking this obvious newer grower to source out Potassium nitrate and gypsum to solve a toxicity? When you know, and I know the best answer is FLUSH FLUSH FLUSH.

ShovelHead...identify the bugs and eliminate them, and flush with proper pH water and let dry out good between waterings. Go to your local garden center or go to one of the many available online shops and get yourself some quality goods. If you want suggestions on specifics ask. Ask us, ask the store you buy from, ask anyone but sproutco kidding...kidding. Lighten up

He potted into soil that had ammonium nitrogen. Plants went toxic rapidly. This causes a deficiency of calcium. So, you add calcium and switch nitrogen to nitrate nitrogen like potassium nitrate. He has since repotted with less "hot" soil but the ammonium may still be toxic within the plant.

Ammonium. Excessive levels of ammonium (NH4) in the growing medium may interfere with the uptake of calcium, but more commonly, ammonium is directly toxic to plants. Excessive levels can cause reduced growth, interveinal chlorosis, foliar marginal chlorosis or necrosis, and damage to the root system (Fig. 8). Fertilizer programs should provide no more than one-half the total nitrogen in the ammonium and/or urea form for flowering potted plants. Ammonium toxicity may occur when fertilizers containing urea or ammonium sulfate are used. Excessive levels of ammonium may also occur after steaming of organic soils, especially those containing manure. The conversion of ammo*nium to nitrate is carried out by soil microorganisms that are nonexistent or in low numbers in soilless growing media. The conversion can be inhibited by certain pesticides; cool, wet soil; low pH; excessive soluble salts; and poor aeration. Fertilizers containing significant levels of ammonium should be avoided when a soilless medium is used. Ammonium is difficult to leach from the growing medium.

http://www.apsnet.org/online/feature/abiotic/nutrition.html

 

[SouthernSmoker]

Why are you still trying to get this man to feed his plants calcium ?
the plant is fert stressed
1 repotted in a hot soil mix
2 flushed
3 repotted again in nutral mix
4 gave alight feeding of peters 15-30-15
5 gave a feeding of Fox farms grow big 6-4-4
6 added bloodmeal to the soil 0-12-0
7 added a top dressing of organic soil
all with in 7 days ofan allready burned plant and you think he has a def in calcium ?
those plants are far from a def even if the calcium will help with toxic build up it wont help with that much fert being put on them .

Please flush your plant out hard and give them time to recover

 

[kokua]

Sproutco, I am not questioning your 'expertise'...if you will. I was saying know your audience. THis obvious NOOB has no fucking clue what your talking about, I have no fucking clue what you are talking about lol. As a matter of fact, no one other than folks with your level of education is going to comprehend what you were attempting to say.

Being a teacher is more than just expending knowledge. You must know who your student is and what his or her base knowledge is...like a college professor preaching to an obvious middle schooler.

Sorry for giving bad rep...I've given you good rep in the past, and I will in the future. But that your advice in this thread was less than stellar my man. Not trying to offend, just keeping you on your toes. I would hope you would do the same for me. No hard feelings :friends:

 

[sproutco]

Sproutco, I am not questioning your 'expertise'...if you will. I was saying know your audience. THis obvious NOOB has no fucking clue what your talking about, I have no fucking clue what you are talking about lol. As a matter of fact, no one other than folks with your level of education is going to comprehend what you were attempting to say.

Being a teacher is more than just expending knowledge. You must know who your student is and what his or her base knowledge is...like a college professor preaching to an obvious middle schooler.

Sorry for giving bad rep...I've given you good rep in the past, and I will in the future. But that your advice in this thread was less than stellar my man. Not trying to offend, just keeping you on your toes. I would hope you would do the same for me. No hard feelings :friends:

No problem. You missed out on the fact that he repotted into new soil. If he was using the old soil, a flush would have been the right answer although ammonium is hard to flush. Case of "hot" soil intended for shrubbery.

 

[Dr Green]

Hey, you guys are good....like Growing for a Master Degree...thanks people..

 

[kokua]

yep... must have missed that lol So if the problem soil is gone, why not just ride it out? That would be the obvious solution...

You don't see how telling an obvious noob to source out gypsum, tree stump removers, and whatever else is just asking for trouble? He is having problems with the basics, why complicate things? He doesn't need anything else to add. He needs to flush with water and wait it out.

 

[bruijngenetics]

for the bugs you should get neem oil. use everybodys advice and your plants should be fine

 

[shovelhead]

OK folks,I want to thank everyone for their input and give an update. I believe the main problem was insects,spider mites to be exact. It threw mw off that the plants started looking porly after repotting,but I'm guessing it was coincidence. A few days later it had spread to a couple of smaller/younger clones that had not been repotted,which ruled out soil problems. Sunday night i sprayed heavily with a solution of neem oil concentrate. Monday morning I pulled a leaf off and looked under my trusty Radio Shack pocket microscope,and positively identified a spider mite. It appeared he was applying the neem oil as a sunscreen and was setting up beach chairs. Monday night I put them in the kitchen sink and sprayed them with a vinegar/baking sode solution as in the thread below,and rinsed them off with the sink sprayer. Also sprayed off all other plants in veg closet,and sprayed floors and walls.
The plants look much better as of today {Thurs am}. Leaf color is still a little off,but the new growth looks ok,leaves are soft/silky instead of crispy. Pulling off poor looking leaves and seeing no mites. Still not perfect but improving slowly.I'm waiting for them to dry out,I never really flushed them properly,I tried to keep the solutions out of the soil but they took on a lot of water during rinse. After they dry out I will give them a half strength feeding of grow big.
I'd like to thank everyone for their input and advice. Yes I'm a noob,well I've got 3 years and a dozen harvests under my belt,but on a very small scale. It seems like soil growing with organic ferts is pretty forgiving,if you're conservative with the ferts it is hard to fuck them up,so I don't have much experience with problem solving,mainly because I haven't had too many problems. This has been a real learning experience for me,and I'm glad to have you all as a resource to fall back on.
Growing weed to me is almost magical. I'm a technician by day so I know the science is important,but when people start talking about PPM and workings at a molecular level my eyes glaze and my head spins. None the less,I'm happy for EVERYONES advice,and always happy to learn something new.

 

[kokua]

Monday morning I pulled a leaf off and looked under my trusty Radio Shack pocket microscope,and positively identified a spider mite. It appeared he was applying the neem oil as a sunscreen and was setting up beach chairs.

Thats funny!! lol Your doing great, keep it up!