Stealth Grow Led comparisons?

[infowarrior]

Has anyone done comparisons with Stealth Grow Led? Particularly on the SG602. My grow room will be all Led when I decide to build it.

SG 602 - $1599 + s/h

• Wattage – 600 Watts; actual power draw 327 watts*
• 1.5 amps @ 220V; 3 amps @ 110V
• Spectrum of Light - 455-475nm, 620-630nm, 660nm
  and bright white
• Effective Area of Coverage – 4' x 5'
• Lifespan – 50,000-100,000 hours
• Dimensions – 13" x 18" x 3.5"
• Number of LEDs – 288
• LED Chip Power – 2 Watt Hi-power LED Chips**

Thanks!

 

[LEDGirl]

SG 602 - $1599 + s/h

So Stealth Grow uses the "gimmick" of selling you a 600W LED Grow Light, when really it's nothing more than a 330W LED with a high price tag. At 330W, you're paying $4.85 per watt not including shipping. Our 345W panel costs $3.33 per watt including shipping. Quite a large difference on price, and our 345W draws about 290-300W of actual power.

Wattage – 600 Watts; actual power draw 327 watts

Stealth grow uses 2x1W diodes per LED in their product. Our LED's contain a single 1W diode. If you read the Maximum Yield article on SG, you heard from the owner of the company that they don't run their LED's anywhere near optimal amperage, and instead they dial each LED way down. 1W LED's operate at a current of 350mA, regardless of how they're packaged (2W, 3W LED's, etc...). What Stealth does is dial each 1W down to 200mA, so it's essentially creating just over half of it's optimal light output, and then puts two of them on a single LED to make it look as though their light is more intense. The image below depicts the difference between SG and our own lights, IF AND ONLY IF they were using the same 1W diodes we are, and I can almost assure you they are not (different MFR). We use top of the line 660nm LED's, while they likely use whatever cheap 660nm LED their MFR gives them (after all, it's obvious to me that they haven't done much if any design work themselves, aside from re-branding a pre-made Chinese product). The output per watt difference between our 660nm LED's and our competitor's 1W's, can be up to 8 lumens difference (1/3 the output) per watt, so take the image below ONLY as a reference:

So the image above depicts our 1W LED at 350mA, emitting 22 lumens. If SG was using our 1W diodes, running two of them per LED at 200mA each, would give them approximately 12 lumens per chip, or 24 lumens total. The color of the two LED's above is exactly the same, the only difference is that the 2W chip has an opacity layer set at 60%, showing a reduction in light output per LED. Regardless of their claims, you will NEVER get as good of penetration from 2 chips at half the output, as you would with a single bright chip at full throttle. How can you claim higher intensity, when you turn down the light output per chip by almost half? Not to mention they still use a 120 degree lens like everyone else, which are still 4x less intense than our own. When it comes to intensity and penetration, Stealth Grow's claims are nothing but gimmicks. When you break down the math to how many lumens your LED's are producing per 100mA of electricity, our 1W's come in at 6.29 lumens per 100mA, while theirs (only if using the same chips) are at 6 lumens per 100mA. So why go with 2 LED's of less efficiency, when you could simply use 1 to get better results?

Spectrum of Light - 455-475nm, 620-630nm, 660nm and bright white

This spectral output proves that Stealth Grow has made NO attempts to engineer their lights themselves. They used the CHEAPEST LED's in their products that China offers, rather than going with spectral peaks like we do, which add a good 70% to the cost of your product. As a reminder, photosynthesis relies on 439nm, 469nm, 642nm, and 667nm to function properly, and if you disclude any of these outputs, your yields will suffer. Stealth Grow doesn't even touch 439nm, which is vital both for Carotenoids and Chlorophyll. The blue they do give you is a "run of the mill" blue, with a primary output of 465nm. It touches the 469nm peak, but not with the efficiency of a 470nm LED. Since LED's have very narrow output wavelengths, this small change DOES make a difference. Likewise with red, their 625nm (again super Cheap compared to 640nm) doesn't even touch the 642nm peak, meaning it's far less efficient than our own at converting light into plant energy. They are also missing infrared which is vital to flowering development, transpiration, and photosynthesis rates. Until they decide to stop using gimmicks to sell their lights, and they actually focus on development, their units will perform no better than your standard 300W grow light from eBay.

Effective Area of Coverage – 4' x 5'

A highly exaggerated coverage area, due to the use of LESS intense 120 degree lenses, which shoot light out everywhere. So is it light quality, or quantity that matters? Light quality determines intensity, and intensity determines penetration, which determines how much light a plant can actually absorb. Quantity means we shoot it out everywhere, so we can grow in a HUGE area, with FAR less intense light. So do you want a large area where your plants are light starved, or a smaller one where they get EVERYTHING they need? Understand also that their SG602 uses the SAME panel as our 126W light, which has a 2'x3' coverage area. If you took 3 of our 126W panels and spread them out, you would have a larger coverage area than the SG602 (as we don't exaggerate anything), with FAR higher intensity throughout the entire area. Our lights are designed around the gardener, not simply trying to mimick HID. It's for this reason that they work extremely efficiently over large areas due to multiple panels, rather than one central source that shoots out in all directions. If it were HID, that would be fine since each bulb is 400W or 1000W, but with LED's we're talking about 1W chips that don't have anywhere near the energy as a 1000W bulb, and thus can't travel or spread out that distance efficiently. Our competitors simply haven't figured this out, and it's one of the most basic parts of building any light.

Lastly, Stealth Grow isn't proven. PERIOD. They have no grow tests to show you that their products live up to their claims, that they are better than other LED grow lights, or that they aren't simply filling your head with lie after lie, gimmick after gimmick. They don't show you LED vs HID like we do, and I doubt they will any time soon. Why go with some company who provides you with nothing but empty promises, when our promises are already backed with proof that they're true? Our panels are also cheaper, and I guarantee that they will outperform Stealth Grow watt for watt.

 

[infowarrior]

Thank you for all your technical professional input! I am only gathering info for my future all led grow room that I would like to have two 600w or 700w panels to start with then add more as needed. I probably will have to wait until fall when you release you new higher wattage panels? I will stay tuned to the forum for further updates, and grows with your newer panels until release date.

Thank you!

 

[blazeoneup]

So Stealth Grow uses the "gimmick" of selling you a 600W LED Grow Light, when really it's nothing more than a 330W LED with a high price tag. At 330W, you're paying $4.85 per watt not including shipping. Our 345W panel costs $3.33 per watt including shipping. Quite a large difference on price, and our 345W draws about 290-300W of actual power.




Stealth grow uses 2x1W diodes per LED in their product. Our LED's contain a single 1W diode. If you read the Maximum Yield article on SG, you heard from the owner of the company that they don't run their LED's anywhere near optimal amperage, and instead they dial each LED way down. 1W LED's operate at a current of 350mA, regardless of how they're packaged (2W, 3W LED's, etc...). What Stealth does is dial each 1W down to 200mA, so it's essentially creating just over half of it's optimal light output, and then puts two of them on a single LED to make it look as though their light is more intense. The image below depicts the difference between SG and our own lights, IF AND ONLY IF they were using the same 1W diodes we are, and I can almost assure you they are not (different MFR). We use top of the line 660nm LED's, while they likely use whatever cheap 660nm LED their MFR gives them (after all, it's obvious to me that they haven't done much if any design work themselves, aside from re-branding a pre-made Chinese product). The output per watt difference between our 660nm LED's and our competitor's 1W's, can be up to 8 lumens difference (1/3 the output) per watt, so take the image below ONLY as a reference:

So the image above depicts our 1W LED at 350mA, emitting 22 lumens. If SG was using our 1W diodes, running two of them per LED at 200mA each, would give them approximately 12 lumens per chip, or 24 lumens total. The color of the two LED's above is exactly the same, the only difference is that the 2W chip has an opacity layer set at 60%, showing a reduction in light output per LED. Regardless of their claims, you will NEVER get as good of penetration from 2 chips at half the output, as you would with a single bright chip at full throttle. How can you claim higher intensity, when you turn down the light output per chip by almost half? Not to mention they still use a 120 degree lens like everyone else, which are still 4x less intense than our own. When it comes to intensity and penetration, Stealth Grow's claims are nothing but gimmicks. When you break down the math to how many lumens your LED's are producing per 100mA of electricity, our 1W's come in at 6.29 lumens per 100mA, while theirs (only if using the same chips) are at 6 lumens per 100mA. So why go with 2 LED's of less efficiency, when you could simply use 1 to get better results?




This spectral output proves that Stealth Grow has made NO attempts to engineer their lights themselves. They used the CHEAPEST LED's in their products that China offers, rather than going with spectral peaks like we do, which add a good 70% to the cost of your product. As a reminder, photosynthesis relies on 439nm, 469nm, 642nm, and 667nm to function properly, and if you disclude any of these outputs, your yields will suffer. Stealth Grow doesn't even touch 439nm, which is vital both for Carotenoids and Chlorophyll. The blue they do give you is a "run of the mill" blue, with a primary output of 465nm. It touches the 469nm peak, but not with the efficiency of a 470nm LED. Since LED's have very narrow output wavelengths, this small change DOES make a difference. Likewise with red, their 625nm (again super Cheap compared to 640nm) doesn't even touch the 642nm peak, meaning it's far less efficient than our own at converting light into plant energy. They are also missing infrared which is vital to flowering development, transpiration, and photosynthesis rates. Until they decide to stop using gimmicks to sell their lights, and they actually focus on development, their units will perform no better than your standard 300W grow light from eBay.




A highly exaggerated coverage area, due to the use of LESS intense 120 degree lenses, which shoot light out everywhere. So is it light quality, or quantity that matters? Light quality determines intensity, and intensity determines penetration, which determines how much light a plant can actually absorb. Quantity means we shoot it out everywhere, so we can grow in a HUGE area, with FAR less intense light. So do you want a large area where your plants are light starved, or a smaller one where they get EVERYTHING they need? Understand also that their SG602 uses the SAME panel as our 126W light, which has a 2'x3' coverage area. If you took 3 of our 126W panels and spread them out, you would have a larger coverage area than the SG602 (as we don't exaggerate anything), with FAR higher intensity throughout the entire area. Our lights are designed around the gardener, not simply trying to mimick HID. It's for this reason that they work extremely efficiently over large areas due to multiple panels, rather than one central source that shoots out in all directions. If it were HID, that would be fine since each bulb is 400W or 1000W, but with LED's we're talking about 1W chips that don't have anywhere near the energy as a 1000W bulb, and thus can't travel or spread out that distance efficiently. Our competitors simply haven't figured this out, and it's one of the most basic parts of building any light.

Lastly, Stealth Grow isn't proven. PERIOD. They have no grow tests to show you that their products live up to their claims, that they are better than other LED grow lights, or that they aren't simply filling your head with lie after lie, gimmick after gimmick. They don't show you LED vs HID like we do, and I doubt they will any time soon. Why go with some company who provides you with nothing but empty promises, when our promises are already backed with proof that they're true? Our panels are also cheaper, and I guarantee that they will outperform Stealth Grow watt for watt.

One question here about using 2 1w diodes at 200mA, Does this increase the life of the leds any at all?

If it does perhaps thats one more piece you can add to your own panels.

If you changed your panels to 2 1w leds at 200mA but used the same 60 degree angle lenses for better penetration wouldnt that create a led panel that would work just as well as current but yet give longer life to the panels?

I have not researched this topic any, Im just making a assumption that a single 1w led chip ran at 200mA will only put half the output of a single 1w led at 350mA but wouldnt the one at 200mA have a longer lifetime then the one ran at full capacity?

If it does increase the life, Would it be enough increase to be worth the while?

One last question say you take one of your 1w leds and 60 degree lenses at 350mA would 2 1w leds with 60 degree lenses at 200mA produce the same power as the 1 single chip? If so would it still penetrate as well considering its using the 60 degree lenses?

Reason I ask is because if it does, Wouldnt it be cheaper in the long run to spend a little extra for the extra leds etc to end up with a light which last almost 2x longer? But yet provides very simular output?

Of course packing double the leds into each unit may be the one thing that makes this difficult.

 

[LEDGirl]

One question here about using 2 1w diodes at 200mA, Does this increase the life of the leds any at all?

I have not researched this topic any, Im just making a assumption that a single 1w led chip ran at 200mA will only put half the output of a single 1w led at 350mA but wouldnt the one at 200mA have a longer lifetime then the one ran at full capacity?

You're on the right track Blaze, and your assumptions would likely be correct for our own panels, but I cannot say the same for the Stealth Grow panels. The 19"x12.5" panel that China designed was originally meant for 288 x 1W LED's at 350mA, and that's why it has 6 fans. Even though they were designed for this many LED's, the cooling efficiency of the unit is not as good as it should be. To then increase the panel to 400mA only reduces the efficiency of the cooling system, which would lead to shorter life span rather than longer. While it's true each LED is only using 200mA, there is still 400mA being supplied to each LED, and the panel was designed for a maximum of 350mA.

The reason it would work with our own lights is that we use less than half the amount of LED's per panel that they are rated for. So the 288W sized panel mentioned above, is the one we use for our 126W light. The cooling efficiency of our units is already far superior to other lights, simply because of our design. We are currently working on increasing this efficiency even more, and are in the final development stages of doing so. So if we did a similar design you are correct that we could get a tiny bit more light output from doubling the amount of LED's and reducing their amperage, but it would make more sense for us to simply use a couple more 1W's at 350mA where they are the brightest, as the chips at 200mA are still less bright, and therefore less able to penetrate leaves. It's like stepping down to half watt LED's, and running more of them hoping to get the same levels of penetration. It's just not possible, even if you have an equal number of lumens. That's why people use a 1000W HID instead of a multiple 400W HID's (although some do multiples lol).

 

[blazeoneup]

You're on the right track Blaze, and your assumptions would likely be correct for our own panels, but I cannot say the same for the Stealth Grow panels. The 19"x12.5" panel that China designed was originally meant for 288 x 1W LED's at 350mA, and that's why it has 6 fans. Even though they were designed for this many LED's, the cooling efficiency of the unit is not as good as it should be. To then increase the panel to 400mA only reduces the efficiency of the cooling system, which would lead to shorter life span rather than longer. While it's true each LED is only using 200mA, there is still 400mA being supplied to each LED, and the panel was designed for a maximum of 350mA.

The reason it would work with our own lights is that we use less than half the amount of LED's per panel that they are rated for. So the 288W sized panel mentioned above, is the one we use for our 126W light. The cooling efficiency of our units is already far superior to other lights, simply because of our design. We are currently working on increasing this efficiency even more, and are in the final development stages of doing so. So if we did a similar design you are correct that we could get a tiny bit more light output from doubling the amount of LED's and reducing their amperage, but it would make more sense for us to simply use a couple more 1W's at 350mA where they are the brightest, as the chips at 200mA are still less bright, and therefore less able to penetrate leaves. It's like stepping down to half watt LED's, and running more of them hoping to get the same levels of penetration. It's just not possible, even if you have an equal number of lumens. That's why people use a 1000W HID instead of a multiple 400W HID's (although some do multiples lol).

Thanks for the reply, Just trying to get a understanding of how things work. I have not researched leds much yet, But the longer this test grow goes on the more impressed I am by it's performance.

 

[cottonfarmer]

So Stealth Grow uses the "gimmick" of selling you a 600W LED Grow Light, when really it's nothing more than a 330W LED with a high price tag. At 330W, you're paying $4.85 per watt not including shipping. Our 345W panel costs $3.33 per watt including shipping. Quite a large difference on price, and our 345W draws about 290-300W of actual power.[.........]

Will you offer a 90 return if results are not adequate?

 

[MeanBean]

Hello Cottonfarmer, I am LEDGirls Helper around here. If you take a look at HGL's company policies you will find they offer a 60 day return policy.

if you are that skeptical of the light I would get some cuts ready to flower, maybe even flower them for a week, then use the led unit for the full 60 days, if you feel the penetration is inferior to the comparable light, you can return the product..

here's a link to more info on the 345 model: 205 and 345

Here's where to purchase online: http://www.hydrogrowled.com/345W-Penetrator-LED-Grow-Light-P46.aspx

"Insiders note": noone ever returns them...

 

[cottonfarmer]

Hello Cottonfarmer, I am LEDGirls Helper around here. If you take a look at HGL's company policies you will find they offer a 60 day return policy.

if you are that skeptical of the light I would get some cuts ready to flower, maybe even flower them for a week, then use the led unit for the full 60 days, if you feel the penetration is inferior to the comparable light, you can return the product..

here's a link to more info on the 345 model: 205 and 345

Here's where to purchase online: http://www.hydrogrowled.com/345W-Penetrator-LED-Grow-Light-P46.aspx

"Insiders note": noone ever returns them...

Stealth Grow makes the same claim --- no one ever returns them.

More to the point --- I need 90 days to adequately test these things --- my one and ONLY criteria is yield. So, I need to harvest a crop under these things. I see where Hydrogrow is moving to Palmdale --- not too far away. Maybe they can setup a demonstration grow similar to Stealth. I am gonna go LED but there's no way I can justify buying 12 of her lights to cover my 4x8 when I've seen two Stealth 602's do the job.

Everybody's marketing......

 

[LEDGirl]

Look around Cottonfarmer, we had grows posted with our lights showing their performance long before Stealth Grow ever posted a video. Look at the "1512W Perpetual Bloom Room" if you want to see what Hydro Grow, the manufacturers, can do with their own products. If you want to see what other growers can do, we supply AMPLE proof that our products outperform other LED's and HID's at the same time via two different threads: Independent Photo Results, and See What our Customers are Doing, Stealth Grow does not. There are plenty of grows to look at in terms of yield as well, so all of your questions and concerns can be answered by doing a bit more research. As per Stealth Grow and their returns, have you even looked at their policies? It's no wonder they claim no one has returned anything, as they make the process a complete nightmare. Not only that, but you DON'T ACTUALLY GET A WARRANTY with their product, you have to go to their website and sign up for it if you want it. So anyone who didn't read the fine print is UNABLE to return a light, PERIOD. They give you a 1 year warranty if you sign up for it, we give you 3 years with your purchase (no signing up, it just comes with it). There really is no comparison, as their lights run hot to the touch, while ours are cold. Hot LED's wear out at much faster rate and produce less lumens per watt, which is why they only supply a 1 year warranty as they are certain their products won't last much longer. If you were impressed by that ghetto video posted on their site with 1/2lbs from their 600W light (just over .5 grams per watt, which is horrible for someone focused only on yield), then you should look at this grow where an individual did a full pound under 2 of our 126W lights (1.8 grams per watt): https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=143572 Again, there is NO comparison on yield, so who cares if they exaggerate their coverage areas when their lights don't stack up on the yield? I mean isn't the goal to produce more grams per square foot, rather than running a huge area for the same results? Not just that, but they don't cover a 4x4 area each, sorry. They may shoot light out to that area because of their poor choice of 120 degree lenses, but the light outside of the primary 2x3 coverage area is very dim and not able to be used for primary lighting, just supplemental. Also, how does a 12x19" panel create a square coverage of area of 4'x4' when it's a rectangle? It doesn't add up to me.

Stealth Grow is also a con-artist run company, but too few people take the time to read their site to find this out. For example, they post this disclaimer on their terms and conditions page: "By using the SG products or information contained on the SG Web site, you assume all risks, including the risk that the Content on this Web site may be inaccurate, incomplete, offensive, or may not meet your needs and requirements."

They post this information about LED's and their lifespan in their Resources section under Lighting Installation Guide: "Furthermore, LED lights never lose intensity. If your light still turns on in fifteen years, it is still as bright as the day you bought it. LED bulbs never burn out and never lose intensity."

They put this on their Facts about LED page: "The vast majority of LED grow light companies still use relatively primitive chip technology. These chips are far less expensive and emit significantly less energy than the Cree chips used in Stealth Grow light panels."


The list goes on and on, but you get the idea. They have a disclaimer telling you they lie on their site, and they do so repeatedly. We all know that LED's fade with time and temperature, as EVERY LED manufacturer posts on their own data sheets for their LED's. So for them to tell you that they never lose intensity is false. They also claim to use Cree LED's when Cree doesn't make ANY 2W 2Chip LED's. If you don't believe me, then call em! Cree also doesn't make any 660nm LED's... so again, all of their product information is BOGUS. Too bad more people don't take the time to read their crap marketing to see that they are nothing but scammers with an overpriced product. How Advanced Nutrients turned out to be so stupid to push such a company's products, I really couldn't tell you. It's evident they did zero research or comparisons against other LED's when they made their choice, and their name is no reason to purchase a product as most have learned with all these new "nutrients" they keep coming out with, that essentially do nothing but cost you more $$$. Lastly, if you want an underdeveloped Stealth Grow panel without the markup, go here as it's literally the SAME light: http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/242975060/Led_grow_light.html