Squeeze into a 100amp..? +lung room

[inreplyavalon]

Greetings fellow earthlings. Been a while since i posted. Just been getting back into the game recently and am setting up a new space.

Sadly i cannot upgrade the panel in the home so i am stuck with a 100 amp panel and more space than the 100 amp will power.

I am going to be using two flower spaces flip flopping, each is about 12'x15' and they are side by side. I will have a fairly good sized lung room next to them and the plan is to run my 2 ton AC to condition the air in the lung room and then bring it into each room.
My question is regarding all the new light technology and how to maximize my yield not going over 6000 total watts in each of the flower rooms.
I already have 10 1k hps to play with and am willing to buy some other equipment. I am dealing with 8 ft ceilings so am thinking of using some LEC 315's to add wattage. I know my AC can handle 6000 watts of HPS so i was thinking about maybe using 4 1k hps and up to 6 315's in each room. Any thoughts on how many lights i should add?
I also need to consider the veg space and the AC which draws about 13 amps of power. I am hoping to run around another 6k watts in veg but may not be able to power all that. It'll be close.

So help a bruddah out and suggest what you would do to maximize my 100 amp panel. I have more space than i can use, the panel is my limiting factor!

So fun to be working on another project after all these years

 

[mojave green]

240vac wherever possible.

 

[inreplyavalon]

Absolutely Mojave. I can run everything, flower lights, veg lights and AC all on 240. In fact i'm gonna need to! Good looking out

 

[mojave green]

My grow room is limited to 50 amps so I run 240 on everything possible.
Here's a nice little 240vac light I found for my teens:
T5 Grow Light (2ft 4lamps) DL824-240 Ho Fluorescent Hydroponic Fixture Industrial 240V https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00U393C8A/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awd_a3cOwbZPNXHY1

 

[inreplyavalon]

That things sweet! I did not know t5's were available in 240. fortunately and unfortunately I already own more t5's than i know what to do with. 120v versions. I think my main limiting factor as far as yield goes, in my other garden is not having 1000w veg lights. So i'm thinking either the lec 630 or regular ole 1000 MH. Of course i'll be starting them under some t5's.
Thats a piece of equipment worth sharing so thanks for posting it up Mojave

 

[Phaeton]

100 amp service, same as in my house.

I see 240v being mentioned a lot.

I have a 400 watt low frequency digital that only comes in 240v and pulls 1.77 amps.
My magnetic ballast runs on 120v and pulls 3.7 amps.

When I run the numbers the digital uses 19 watts less total due to higher efficiency.
The amperage used at the meter is 3.7 amps in the 120v leg feeding the magnetic ballast. The amperage used at the meter by the digital is 3.54 amps (1.77 amps in one leg and 1.77 amps in the other leg).
The higher efficiency of the digital only saves 19 watts (3.7amps-3.54amps=.16 amps*120v=19.2 watts).
240 volt only saves energy if a more efficient fixture is used otherwise half the amperage goes through twice the wires. For a net gain of zero.

I run 83 amps through my 100 amp service, which is more than allowed for continuous use. I use my toaster and microwave during specified times.
Eight circuit breakers regulate the loads, the 240 volt fixtures use two breakers, one for each 120 volt leg. This allows me to add 200 watts at a time instead of 400 watts. When running at maximum these smaller increments come in handy to keep the hot running breakers from breaking.

A 100 amp service can run 12,000 watts intermittent and 9,600 watts continuous, the voltage of the fixtures does not affect these limits.

 

[inreplyavalon]

Sounds like you know what you are talking about Phaeton. I was under the impression that to determine Amps you divide watts by voltage. Isnt that the formula A=W/V?
as in 6000w/ 240= 25 amps. and 6000/120=50 amps.
Are you saying it does not matter because a panel can only pull x amount of power regardless of which breakers are used? I did not know this. What do you mean by "continuous use" and "intermittent"? Are you saying i could not possibly have two 6k watt rooms flipping with another 5k watts of 18/6 veg plus a 12 amp AC? My formula must be all fooked up because i thought the numbers just barely added up OK. Thanks for sharing your expertise

 

[inreplyavalon]

Does this mean that on a 100 amp panel running in 240 volt equipment it is only safe to use 80% of 50 amps, meaning 40 amps? Maybe this is why i cooked a meter once...!!!

 

[Chunkypigs]

Dude, learn ohms law before you make another mistake and burn a human. Only use 80 amps of the hundred.

Remember you need at least one 120 volt circuit for the rest of the house, maybe more, lights, furnace, water heater, refrigerator, microwave, computer, garage door opener, cable, TV, stereo, waterbed, lava lamp. Is there a well or do you need a RO unit?
Do you need to run AC? Maybe your basement can absorb lots of heat or you cool with outside air and flower at night.

Forget about flipping two 12K rooms with AC and Dehueeys.

 

[Phaeton]

Circuit breakers are for protection so wires and junction boxes do not get too hot. A 30 amp breaker will shut down when reaching 30 amps. At 29 amps it is hot and ready to break, if a fan comes on it will pop. If the sub gets a heavy bass line it will pop. If the ambient temperature is over the standard 68 it will pop.
The 20% unused makes room for small surges like refrigerator motors or tungsten light startups.
The circuit breakers use heat to activate, running them right at the activation temperature stresses them heavily. making failures more likely.

Ohm's law still works, the 240 volts uses two hot legs where 120 volts uses one hot leg and a ground wire.
A 240 volt light at the same wattage uses half the amps in in each hot leg but is using two of them at 120 volts each so the total is times two.

A 240 watt bulb draws 2 amps at 120 volts.
A 240 watt bulb draws 1 amp at 240 volts, but comes through two wires.
Residential homes are set up with two 120 volt hot lines in opposite phase, when used together they equal 240 volts. When used direct to ground they equal 120 volts.
When using 240 volt equipment the power comes through both hot 120 volt lines, each carrying half the power. The ground wire is not used for 240 volts.

When calculating power draw all the amperage through all the hot lines must be added. Any return voltage through the ground wire has already been counted.
The 240 volt bulb pulls 120 volts on one side and another 120 volts on the other side, so half the amperage times twice the wires.
This does add a layer of confusion but a standard was needed and 120 volt increments was decided upon by a committee.

 

[inreplyavalon]

I understand using only 80% of a circuits power to accommodate for surges and such.
Phaeton can you address these questions?

Are you saying it does not matter because a panel can only pull x amount of power regardless of which breakers are used? I did not know this. What do you mean by "continuous use" and "intermittent"?

Does this mean that on a 100 amp panel running in 240 volt equipment it is only safe to use 80% of 50 amps, meaning 40 amps?

Lets take 6000w as an example. 6000w run at 240v = 25amps
Are you saying that 25 amps is being run through both legs of the circuit and so 50 amps of the panel is being used?

 

[z-ro]

Dude, it's really simple and your confusion has me afraid for you. You have a 100 amp service, you can use 80% or 80 amps(total no matter what voltage 120/240 or combination of the two)24 hours a day 7 days a week.

If you're wanting to run sealed a/c rooms you'll be limited to flipping 8 lights max, maybe only 6 depending where you live. Maybe dim you ballasts or use 600s if possible to cover more sqft. If there's nobody gonna live in the house shut off all other breakers not supplying the grow. If you run fresh air rooms you could flip 12k.

 

[z-ro]

I
Lets take 6000w as an example. 6000w run at 240v = 25amps
Are you saying that 25 amps is being run through both legs of the circuit and so 50 amps of the panel is being used?

No. 6000w will draw somewhere between 25-30 amps total at 240volt depending on type of ballast, length of wire run and number of contacts/connections in the line.

 

[inreplyavalon]

I apologize for wasting anyones time. It is exactly as i thought. Not sure what it was that had me so confused. I have set up an air cooled 7k watt flip room on a 100A panel and a 8k non flip with an AC on a different 100A panel. I do my math and never run any breaker past the 80% mark, including the main. Sorry for the confusion.

ps. The meter that i fried, i was told was a bit "loosely connected" and after 5 years of running it hard it crapped out on me. I noticed it was not spinning and called the power company, they came out and replaced it and recommended that based on my usage it may be a good idea to upgrade to 200A. So i did. Not growing there anymore though..