Split from Cyber-Bullying

[Verger OG]

You should read the thread 'smart meters' in the security forum and notice what certain individuals write to me. They called me insane, imbecile, LEO, questiuoned my nationality, if I ever even grew weed and on and on.

It is tough to even try to remain civil. I dislike how I become provoked. As a reward of that behavior, the thread was closed and that is what the bullies wanted. So they are rewarded. I don't see proof that the mods warned him.
And the way people treat others in chat...that is just real bad.

This site may attract the trash of the internet. I don't know. Problems is you can't really say much or they ban you, for you, 10 others will register. They don't need to protect individuals as long as there is traffic.
I was on Overgrow for years. I saw some abuse, ehll, you can't escape some. But wa sit ever that bad there?

Just too much negativity here and I suppose, I am not helping now. Then again, nothing changes if nothing is shared.

I have been thinking for months now to move onto a few Dutch forums. See what 'life' is like on there. Could be more helpful too, since most people here are americans and thery discuss brands and products and where to buy them...for americans.

The Dutch forum here is of little use. One thread attracts all attention by an ego maniac that keeps spamming non essential pictures, displaying his lifestyle with his worshipers loving it because he 'lives the life' or something. Strange that Dutchieland, so well known by all of us, has a forum without much life. You'd expect a lot more interest but I think the Spanish forums show much more activity.

 

[JJScorpio]

When you have a place with this many members it can be a chore keeping the undesireables weeded out. Some people join for the sole reason of being dicks.

Verger, in your case, would you really call what happened bullying? I didn't think people followed you around the site bullying you. Maybe they did. You posted something and then tried to push your opinion. And I think others argued your opinion and then it got heated......

 

[Verger OG]

Mobbing then.

 

[ROJO145]

When you have a place with this many members it can be a chore keeping the undesireables weeded out. Some people join for the sole reason of being dicks.

Deal with Cyber Bully's just like you would in the real world,pound em!
jj,ya forgot the ones that were dicks even before they joined

 

[Verger OG]

That is probaly true Had not considered that.

 

[KharmaGirl]

Oh, I had.

 

[Verger OG]

Oh, I had.

So how many people get banned by a moderator each day? Because I am not convinced there is any oversight right now on the mods.

 

[KharmaGirl]

That would be info you are not privy too, sorry. No offence, but you are also not privy to what happens between a Mod and another member. Just because someone insults someone else also doesn't mean they are going to get banned...

 

[SouthernGuerila]

Because I am not convinced there is any oversight right now on the mods.

Ever notice the "Report Post" feature? Try it sometime.

If the post is a violation of some sort, it'll be gone shortly.

An active offense is your best defense.

 

[Verger OG]

Nah, in my thread several people were allowed to foulmouth continuously. They just were warned (including me for some reason) to tone it down. Then I warned the mod present that their goal was to close my thread down. And instead of warning them, they let them continue. Until the labhuage was so harsh that they closed the thread down. And so the bullies won.

What do you say to that?

 

[Mrs.Babba]

I say you get what you put out, you wouldnt listen to anyones ideas or opinions and brought it on yourself.

 

[JJScorpio]

So how many people get banned by a moderator each day? Because I am not convinced there is any oversight right now on the mods.

It's very seldom people get banned at all on this site.

The ones usually banned are members whose first post is to advertise porn sites. If someone commits a serious offense the mods usually try and talk to the person. I have no idea why you would make a comment like that.....

 

[Verger OG]

It's very seldom people get banned at all on this site.

The ones usually banned are members whose first post is to advertise porn sites. If someone commits a serious offense the mods usually try and talk to the person. I have no idea why you would make a comment like that.....

That is a problem.
And as I warned the mod that he/she would be forced to close the thread down under Dr. G's constant foulmouthing and bullying, he got his wish.

And I know why.

So the mods here are a board of directors without a CEO. As Gypsy Nirvana has a slow connection and is in a remote location...

One mod says each mod is different. Bingo! Another problem. Mods should behave exactly the same way. Otherwise there is no consistency.

And it is after that that the bullying begins because the hawks see that 3 mods are already 'attacking' me, well, that is how they see it and that is where they get the justification to start harassing.

Look at how you all defend each other.

And then Dr. G comes in. He was in chat. I am repeating this so all mods can see how despicable this is.

"get out the tin foil hats all"
"parinoid bullshit"
"stop the fear mongering"
"you must be a stuck up European " (to someone else)
"fuck off"
"get your head outa your ass"
BigNugget: "go get your foil hat on, just like I told you in chat. In fact for you bro, I once again recommend the full foil suit. "
"you think just because you type intellegentally that your not 100% completely insane " (Sorry but it is spelled 'intelligently')
"why dont you go back to your america hateing conspiricy theory websites we dont want you here"

Babbaud, something about long winded posts. Yes real good moderatorship, to take sides and accuse someone on a forum, meant for discussion, that he is long winded...in a sub forum on security...

"i didnt read all your crap cuz its the same bullshit over and over who the fuck wants to read all that noone cares enough"
"just shut up already"
"fear momgering"
"i think the guy is just lonely or bored" (whodi)
"lets just drop it this tread is really trollish" (As he trolls in my thread)
"Verger you are a straight up fucking pussy. get the fuck outta here with your petty shit."(whodi)

"hey kharma girl how bout fuck this fucking thread this dude is a bitch and needs this thread closed"

"this dude has no life prolly doesnt even have a grow and is just trying to argue"

"plus hes now giving people negetive rep when peopleare saying we should just stop this" (He is the only one asking for that, besides, the reputation system can be turned off if he doesn't like bad rep for his attitude).

"fuck you verger and your fucking pathetic lame ass excuse for a thread noone read your bitching and whining and you now again have no friends to communicate with go to another forum and do this somewhere else maby over there people will suscribe to your parinoia


fuck fuck bitch **** tits asshole mother fucker barbra striseand

is that enough?"

KharmaGirl was really compliant after that.

"he doesnt give a fuck"
"but insists he's Dutch?" (tnt blaster)

Karma Genetics stops by to state I am always in battle, just as I write this post. But that is not my fault. Where I see a wrong, I debate it. People don't like that, and the mods the least of all. Nothing need be stirred up. But if the mods were more effective and gave me a feeling of being listened to for caring about civil discourse...then perhaps I wouldn't reply this way that I do, hm?

"hes just mad cuz hes jealous

im wondering if this cat even has a grow
you sir are a troll"
"ha he says hes an overgrow member but tis was his first grow atempt

this cat is also now resorting to pming me and giving me bad rep and just harassing me


Yes my mistake, I pm'ed him:
-----

"And you are my greatest fan. Can't keep away!
Can't you even read my sig? It clearly states I have no growth at the moment.
Reading with comprehension is not big with you is it."
----
Oh yes, how crude of me to 'bother' you.

I don't enjoy writing this at all.
But when mods reply to me, I sure feel entitled to write back.

No you can argue with me all you want and may find me long winded, wordiness prone, over-sensitive, always fighting over things and what not. But isn't that alos not your own fault for not moderating betetr?

I say, ban more people. What kind of shit is this when Dr. G and whodi can get away with this shit? Why can't a victim not be told someone got a ban? Why do you watch a thread and allow it to deteriorate like that? Why didn't you intervene when you had the chance? Where are the site owners? Why don't you stand up for civil discourse and mutual respect? Is this foul mouth language normal? Is it bad to try to get a higher level of interaction? Why do you post opinions in threads when that is showing a bias?

I moderate groups myself. And what the mods here need to do is communicate better with each other to deal with this sort of trouble. Make me a mod. I'll clean this place out for sure. You should make a special Mod Only mailing list to quickly debate issues that come up.
You should choose between being a mod and a member. In my thread mods acted as members and sometimes as mod. No can do. You need to be impartial. Always. And not let yourself be dragged into a discussion. And if someone has a problem, PM them and discuss it privately. And if you get PM'ed by someone with a problem, show a heart and take it seriously, at least give them the feeling they are being understood.

I guess I am not smart to tell mods how to do their job. But come on people, make an effort.
If you have questions, PM me because I am a great mod and have never experienced problems on my lists or groups.
It is bad when people admit that this place attracts trash. This is probbaly the biggest cannabis related board. Set a new improved standard.

Dutchgrown:

"Denigration also known as "dissing", occurs when a person sends or publishes cruel rumors, gossip or untrue statements about a person to intentionally damage the victim's reputation or friendships.

...

4: Posters who speak incessantly and/or rabidly on some relatively uninteresting subject or with a patently ridiculous attitude will be banned. Repeated posts directed with hostility at a particular person or group of people or their beliefs will be cause for banning. Any individual who chronically trolls, who regularly posts arguments, flames or personal attacks for no other purpose than to annoy someone or disrupt a discussion will be banned."

 

[JJScorpio]

First of all, where did all these comments you're making come from. I have to guess they were made in chat?I sure never noticed them or was informed about them. You also fail to post some of the comments that you made that kept the ball rolling. And if they were made in chat I informed you that chat is a more open place with a lot of joking and ribbing. I told you to either give it back to them ot get out if you couldn't handle the pressure. From what I saw you were trying to push your issue and if someone didn't like your opinion then they must be wrong.

You're attemp to "mod" yourself does nothing but show you don't have the patience to mod here. " You'll clean this place up". That's not flying here. We don't want to ban people if we don't have to. And that includes you. So I suggest letting by gones be by gones and get off the "victim" kick. You can continue to bad mouth us if you like. But you sure look foolish patting your own back..... Better yet, tell us where you mod so we can drop in and take lessons from you. I bet your site you mod at has 100,000 members from every race and religion.....

And after rechecking the thread you complained was closed, when you started the thread you spent more time making comments about people than you did the facts of your thread. It should have been closed then because from my view you were simply trying to entice people from chat into arguing on the forums, which you accomplished....

 

[Babbabud]

I think we have spent way too much time on Verger already . Yes lets clean it up like he says... starting with Verger!!

 

[Verger OG]

These comments come from simple observations. As seen in my thread smart meters. This thread is about cyber bullying. And I reminded you of things that were said. (And quoted your own admins on you.) You don't wanna ban Dr. G? For his brutal attacks on me? Fine. But don't tell me I can't write about it.

And still you haven't given me any notion that he got warned. He is off happily writing elsewhere without a single thought about what he did and I remain here defending my position from mods.


I cannot be held responsible because of someone else writing the things they said in a thread I started, as I quoted them for ever mod to read. it cannot be so that someone gets away with that. If you think it is normal human behavior, something is seriously wrong. Re-read the first 2 posts in his very thread.... And if I keep balls rolling, well, it was the thread I satrted soI replied to everyone when they ere normal to me. Do you realize that?

I wasn't talking about chat either. I was only quoting from my thread. And I am falling over the fact that you mods stick out for each other, defending each other and being partial to members.
Well. At least to me. Because I have the fucking audacity to talk back when I see something is not quite in balance. Being a mod is work, yet you mods are all friends, as it should be. But stop defending each other like this.

But you are just human beings. And you make mistakes.

And religion and nationality have NOTHING to do with civility. I am also not asking for a ban of that miserable person. I would sure like it, but I won't ask fo it, that is not my style. But again, if you think it is normal for someone to attack a thread like that.... well, ask Dutchgrown or Gypsy Nirvana. Perhaps they like their mag to be associated with this style of shit?

And when I feel wronged and bring it up, you get triggered into denial and self defense. I play the victim? Come on, I AM the victim,. Because you constantly aggravate me. With evasiveness, denial and blaming it all on me because of chat. Again, this ain't about chat. This is about my thread.

And I may have a lousy writing style, I may even be arrogant sometimes, I may be prone to wordiness, hell, I may even not listen to a thing that was said by another. In short, I may be a complete moron and an imbecile. But I have principles, a good heart, a sensitivity towards justice and fairness and am better than Dr G. At least I don't go into threads just to brutalize people.

Yes, let's start cleaning up and van Verger, because he has the audacity to raise issues.

Do not worry mods. No need for banning yet. I will soon clean out my photographs and press the last button of this website. Then you can all go back to...whatever it is that you do here. Because you sure as hell aren't sticking up for me.

 

[Weedman Herb]

Verger ... it seems you're a bit butt hurt ... get over it or get going ... Your thread got closed You get Bullied or Mobbed You don't get along in chat ... Maybe it's YOU? If I were as unhappy at IC as you sound I'd go somewhere else to post.

 

[Verger OG]

Yes blame the victim is a big thing here. Worse is, that if you complain, they must have been right all along!

Do not worry. I said my goodbyes and I'll wait for whoever respects me to say farewell. So I figure I'll delete my account ...well...when... I guess... Wednesday. It will be better for my sanity. Perhaps I am getting too old for this. Perhaps I expect too much of people. I'll try it someplace else.

Hey, no one is forcing me to be here, right? I have drawn my conclusions.

 

[Weedman Herb]

I have a hard time seeing you as an innocent victim ...

 

[JJScorpio]

You have no idea who any of us spoke to, so that is a mute point. Again, pointing the finger at yourself as the victim......

Because you want to continue to discuss your thread that was closed, I will re post your first post in this thread with the parts highlighted that we mods felt you were using to entice people from chat into an on forum argument. I will bold them for you and everyone else to make their own determination.....

In the chat channel I was abused because I brought up this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_meter

In the Netherlands all Dutch households will get a smart meter, that will monitor our power consumption per 15 minutes. It will send this data wireless. There are many security issues involved here.

First of all, it will send data that can be picked up by anyone. That means that anyone with a laptop can park outside and start logging your power consumption. From that power use they can extrapolate what you are doing and when you are home. This can be used to plan burglary or ripping off your plants, searching your house for money that you might have from being a grower.

They can target likely houses or use tips or someone mouthing off and then analyze the data to plan an attack. If you realize how many people use wireless equipment and are not using any safety...it has been in the news how people pick up these transmissions and abuse them, whole businesses are unprotected. IT security isn't a big thing here for many people who are naive.

The power company receives this data and the argument was made they don't have time or money to datamine it, to find unusual power users.

But THAT is the point of the new meters. They are intended to analyze data:

"Smart meters provide an economical way of measuring this information, allowing price setting agencies to introduce different prices for consumption based on the time of day and the season."

It is not labor intensive to do so as was implied. But I said that computers using special software do this, as most of us know. They will run statistical analyses on it and the computer will spit out if required by law enforcement agancies, any strange patterns of power use.

A strange pattern would include switching on your grow lights for 24 hours a day. They can see your average power use is this and that from that day on it is on average 400W higher, or 600W or whatever your power use is. Then theyc an detect that you go back to a 12/12 cycle.

And even if you gradually go from 24/7 to 18, to 16 etc, they can detect this systematic decline in power use. Remember, they can detect it per 15 minutes. Somoen said to switch light son 5 minutes earlier and play around with that. But that would fall within one period of 15 minutes. And it would not make a difference.

First the computer can calculate within certain margins, to incorporate these sorts of small irregularities and no man needs to work an hour to see the pattern. If irregularity is detected, it will flag that household and only then will someone take the read out and see what this is about.

This readout will be asked for by LEA. I was called naive and paranoid.

They say that would never happen. But I reminded them of their social security number. At first ours was only to be used for tax purposes, so by the IRS. Now it is proudly displayed in my passport, my health insurance card, I need to fill it in on any subsidy application for municipal purposes or above that level of government. Now insurance companies need it, the number is locked onto all kinds of government files on me. Also, databases of organizations are more and more linked. And IT security isn't always good.

We talk about identity theft here these days a lot...

So if power companies start datamining to 'help' you reduce your power consumption...in the future it will be possible to get instant over the internet advice by logging in on their website most likely and then get instant power use advice... which will be another thread to grower security, so, the analyzing will certainly be done.

Now, you might think that LEA won't just single you out. But think of this. We live in a world that gets scarier day by day by installing and implementing new security measures. Right from 11-9-01 on, we have changed laws to make it easier for LEA to datamine, to get into computers, to review databases. These laws go far in the EU and in The Netherlands.

I am interested in this topic and I know quite a bit about it. I am not naieve.

If a judge gives a court order to lift my power use data from a database, the power company will be forced to provide the details. Our national secret service, the AIVD, already has the authority to go in b and find anything. They can easily do what is being done a lot today: if they say one grows weed to obtain money for terrorism, they will give this info to the police and they will find a judge to get the warrant. In England, an 11 year old was arrested on terrorism charges for walking on the grass.

We see people post here who are harassed by police on bogus charges and their rights are stepped upon.

Someone aid that the 400W HPS isn't gonna trigger a red light. No, but the patter of usage will. I don't feel safe in the 7 billion households database spread out over different power companies, would you?

Besides, it is easy to target. There are areas where the police knows a lot of grow houses exist. If theys ee a house and different people go in there according to the neighbors, if there are always curtains closed or whatever, the cops can ask for a permit of a judge to find out if there really is a grow operation by diving into the power use.

They would not even have to go in, they can picl up the transmissions.

Also, the power company can turn of power delivery to your house remotely. I take that this is send by a command, there are chips in that meter.

So this is a risk, if someone wants to harass you, they might ne able to hack your meter and switch your grow operation off.

I also worry about an electrical storm. Once my modem broke when a thunderstorm passed nearby and lightning struck someplace bear. It may yet fry the chips, making you vulnerable because chips will need to be replaced and someone needs to enter your house.

In the usa they find an excuse to break into your house searching for a bloody shirt or when they see 'paraphernelia' or just a mess because you are not a tidy person as an excuse to kick down the door. If LEA get another indictaor, they will be more withing their rights to do something.

And the more data the government and :LEA have, the less we are secure.

Someone questioned that this was real. See the link I gave. He wanted a news article or something... right.
Someone talked about porch lights and how they were already 400W. But that is mssing the point. The point is statistical analysis and pattern recognition, not the flip on of the porch light. It is all about averages and who know what mathematical formulae they let go on it.
Another asked how they would tell what you sue that eats power. But that is also not the point. It is about patterns. Yes you can use an electrical heater in winter. But the point is THAT they do not know and that might be a cause for an investigation.
After all, even as I type some are now wanting to rewrite law to switch the burden of proof around. That is, if someone accused of criminal activities cannot prove he bought his villa or car with legal money, he will lose it. In america I think this is already the case.

My point here is that laws begin as obviously morally acceptable means of kicking the criminal but slowly, like my social security number, will be used beyond the scope of its original intended purpose.

So that means that LEA will get broad privileges to secure data to prove their point that someone is a grower.

Someone said it would cost much to find out all these things. But I already explained that. A computer doesn't cost much. For a power company, not even power

Of course someone mentions 'aliens' at that point. And watching sci-fi.

These meters are very real, in the link you see how many millions of these things have already been installed.

I am not so naive to think that there will not come a day when this data is being auto-scanned by secret survive or even just plain old coppers. Changed laws giving them the rights are never dismantled. Laws rarely get abolished or revoked.

Someone asked WHY they would do 'it', meaning datamining. Well, because THEY CAN. Look at the current state of the world pertaining to security. Where dow e see mass demonstrations to protect a human right like privacy?

Where do we see those who love freedom demonstrate against laws that take away our freedom, civil rights and liberties. Privacy is a right. Not a gift by the government.

It seems that in their naivety they will allow the net (or grid itself) to close in around them and then they hope they will find an easy way to avoid power use detection.

They forget that LEA doesn't wait until they detect a possible crime. In that regard I mentioned the new Dutch sniffer RC helo. They said that over The Netherlands would be a cloud of smoke. Laughable. And still that helo can detect the particles associated with growing. And find hostspots of these particles. They would know if it is a coffeeshop because they can link the sniffer data to GPS.

They didn't seem to understand basic modern technology. They questioned if such a helo existed:
http://www.verhagenx2.com/verhagex2heliko.html

In Dutch, but it shows the helo.

It uses infrared and sniffers to make sure someone is not growing tomatoes.

A moderator said that I must really feel like something to be worried about me being picked out.
Well, that is not the point is it.

One of this mob asked if they small his grow from space now. Smell? No, but they are planning to sue satellite imagery to detect plants in crops of farmers.
Will that be sufficient?

Is this a 'ridiculous' topic'?
I think not.

How can you be a self respecting grower if you have no worries about these things at all? And then target someone who brings it up, then laugh at him and become part of a mob mentality to isolate the one bringing it up?"they have no way to monitor all that", one said. Well, they DO. All that I am saying is true and is already being done. Like Echelon for example.

They are working hard to make is traceable everywhere.

I ask you, if they can use RC helo's with sniffers, is it not feasible that when that technology proves so helpful to LAE, they will use sniffer portals at likely locations? If you smell like weed you will be a terrorist or at least a criminal. Please step out if the line sir..

Paranoia? No, realism. LAE are constantly expending and being what they are allowed to do. New laws give them more authority, all in the name of security.
They became ridiculous real quick. Talk about kilns use 10,000W. But that is exactly the point. Why is he using 10.000W for, lets investigate. And it turns out to be an artist with a kiln. Next person don't have a kiln, but a grow op.

'The company won't care if you pay the bill. But it is not up to them, is it.

ISP's are n ow forced to store traffic data and give it to LEA.

They said that I was way beyond normal paranoia. I am not. But I am much aware of the state of our democracies and security and privacy issues than most people.

But I see reality as it is. The things I mentioned are already going on.Some said pot didn't smell and how it could ever work. Ridiculousness.

It was pathetic to see the mods join the mob.
verger you should try www.paranoidRus
shines his ppm meter into Verger_OG's window.
man dud your way out there
verger quit lying your guys pot doesnt smell
i would lock myself in a room where no weed could get near me
this dude is great
he made my day actually
so how do you find the "smell" opf pot there isnt one
i dont think u should smoke pot man
i needed the laugh
hes gonna fuckin nail himself in his room
and get his foil suit on

" but u mean to tell me u think that a "sniffer" device would be accurate outdoors in the WIND "

Yes I am saying that.

boot verger
the TV goes two ways guys
sorry verger, no offense but u were spoutin some craziness
dude verger your going to bring the feds here if there watching you we dont want you here lol
well we do all know each other here
verger if you have a single molecule in your brain
your talking about histeria

i dont think verger even grows maby hes a leo?



----------------------------------------
So that is what it is like.

What do you think about these new meters and how this is a threat tom our security and privacy?

And at that, without being ridiculous about it? Chat members of that day not welcome, they have already disqualified themselves inc. operators.

You tell me Verger that this thread you started wasn't to create an argument?