Somewhere along the line, the ball has been dropped.

[Guest]

It just occured to me,...

When the Vietnam War was going on, there were regular mass protests. Huge ones. Marches on campus', marches on Washington, protests everywhere. Hippies all over the place organizing against the war putting tremendous pressure on the government to end the war.

Today, there are few and no where near the size they were during the Vietnam War era.

Message I get from this: It's okay for the government to do what they please. Nobody's going to speak out, especially on a massive scale.

A combat tour in Vietnam was 1 year. You counted your days until you were 'short' enough to go home. Many of those whom served their year out, came back and suffered from post-tramatic combat syndrome. Many even suffering to this day.

When the Iraqi and Afghani Wars started, the combat tour length was the same, but then troops became involuntarily extended and many ended up spending YEARS in Iraq or Afghanistan. The combat tour is now offically 15 months plus, instead of the old standard year. Not counting the involuntary extensions in a combat zone, nor counting recalls from inactive duty (when you're suppose to get out of the Army and they make you stay a few more years anyways).

You don't hear much about Post-tramatic combat syndrome at all from troops coming back from Iraq or Afghanistan.

The message I get from this: We don't care anymore what happens to our soldiers and youth.

What's even more stange about this is: The Baby Boomers whom protested the war and suffered greatly from a tour in Vietnam, are now the ones in charge. The ones with the greatest voice, the ones in power. What happened? Get old and don't care anymore about your grandchildren? I know this doesn't count everyone, this is simply a generalized observation. If you think about it, you can see my point. Somewhere down the road, values greatly changed and the ball has been dropped.

 

[Mr. Nevermind]

Main reason you dont see the protests today like there were in the Veitnam era was the draft. When the draft was around everyone had a stake in it since their kid could be called up. Didint matter if you were rich or poor, just had to go. Now we have a volunteer army and no draft. So the impact of kids going to war is on those whom already signed up. If the draft were around for this one then we would see more protests . But as of now we send our nations poor to defend our nations rich. And the poor never had much of a voice anyway, not loud enough for the government to listen to at least.




Nevermind

 

[Dan42nepa]

I wouldnt say its just our nations poor. Alot of national guard over in Iraq. I had coworkers who got called to active duty in Gulf war 1 and sent there as well as some in the war now. Vietnam was different because of TV, we saw war footage during the 6:00 news, kids getting dragged out of the bush.. wounded and dead. That was more of a war of poor vs rich. Unless you were a student and had a deferment you were draft bait. Either that or got in trouble with the law and the choice was jail or service. I graduated in 74 and just missed the war. I had a draft card though and it was certainly in my thoughts and as a sophmore a real possibility. My brother won the draft number lottery and didnt have to go but if he were drafted and if i were, we probably would have went. My parents were both WW II veterans and avoiding the draft wasnt an option. I once asked my father, after being brainwashed by all the WWII propaganda movies if he enlisted right after Pearl harbor. His answer was NO... He tried to get in the Coast Guard but when he didnt and thought he would get drafted for the duration he enlisted in the Navy. He was in Tarawa, Iwo Jima, Saipan and never talked about it at all. Except to my father inlaw who was in Iwo Jima. My father inlaw had a foot fungus which lasted the rest of his life and my father had yearly bouts of Malaria which would knock him into bed for 2 weeks a year and make him deathly sick. He wasnt FOR the war but understood how things work and was concerned about us being drafted.

 

[Guest]

I think people live such busy lives that they really don't want to deal with it but when it becomes obvious that it needs intervention by the people then it will be an agressive aqction taken. Like a mother hoping that her children will settle their bickering on their own but when it becomes obvious her intervention is needed she will turn around and scream KNOCK IT OFF!

j.

 

[Pops]

The protest of the 70's weren't just about the war, it was a basic rebellion against authority. I was in the military in the mid 60's and saw many of those guys coming home from Nam and getting spit on by the war protesters. I went to college with many of the protesters and half of them couldn't even tell you where Viet Nam was. I heard them chant slogans that they did not even understand. The media played them up as a caring,concerned generation that wanted change. I call bullshit on that as I knew far too many of them.

Most wanted to get high, have sex and fuck with authority. For every 100 who marched in a demonstration, there might have been 5 that knew what the fuck they were doing. The rest were there because it was the cool thing to do. These non-conformists were the most conforming people I have ever seen. As a veteran, I got really pissed at the treatment that the returning vets got. Most of them were draftees and didn't want to go to war, but they also didn't want to go to jail or lose their citizenship. The way they were treated by these peace-loving hippies was tragic.Those same people are now in authority and resent any and all challenges to their status and authority.Plain old truth is that people just don't give a shit anymore. That is why G. Bush and his buddies can strip Americans of their rights. No one cares enough to stop them.

Sorry about the rant, but there are too many bad memories buried somewhere.

 

[Guest]

No, no, you're fine about the rant and I definately didn't want to bring up those memories. But what got this going in my head and why I started this post was exactually in your last couple sentences.

Plain old truth is that people just don't give a shit anymore. That is why G. Bush and his buddies can strip Americans of their rights. No one cares enough to stop them.

This is where, I believe, the ball has been dropped. They can do any damned thing they want and no outcry. What outcry there is, is so soft, you must strain to hear it.

 

[the rocheklip]

Main reason you dont see the protests today like there were in the Veitnam era was the draft. When the draft was around everyone had a stake in it since their kid could be called up. Didint matter if you were rich or poor, just had to go. Now we have a volunteer army and no draft. So the impact of kids going to war is on those whom already signed up. If the draft were around for this one then we would see more protests . But as of now we send our nations poor to defend our nations rich. And the poor never had much of a voice anyway, not loud enough for the government to listen to at least.



Nevermind

I agree that there would be more protests if there was a draft, but this is an army of volunteers. Yes many are from the lower socio-economic stratus, but there are plenty of low paying easily available jobs where you do not get your head blown off. There are always choices! I sympathize with the downtrodden who turn to the military for support, but I have a hard time believing that is the majority of the soldiers. I personally know 6 people who are in Iraq, or have served earlier, and none of them had their hand forced so to say. They all signed up voluntarily when they other college/career paths in front of them.

Don't take this to mean that I support the war, nobody is winning as far as I'm concerned. Fuck the gov't, where the blame lies now is in our hands as voters. We put Bush back in office 3 years ago and only recently has there been any real public pressure for withdrawal plans.

 

[Guest]

Pops is right! people dont give a shit. They do not want to interupt their cushy lives for rights they think they dont need so our government can catch terrorist's! And most college kids these days have their heads so far up their own asses they think whatever government does is good could for them! I mean the truth is that 75% of the country thats thinks they are patriots are not real patriots. If anybody thinks being a patriot is supporting government that does not follow our constitution is mistaken. We have this country to be free. See I feel as if most dont undeerstand the system and dont want to get involed with politics and that is unpatriototic. Everybody must get involved! Remember this...

UNITED WE STAND...DIVIDED WE FALL

Does this country seem united about anything other than not giving a shit about anything but themselves?

 

[motaco]

POPs i agree with you. People give WAY too much credit to hippies and that whole generation honestly.

and just like you said. you look at what happend to the whole hippy generation. they are watching fox news and "the view" and turned into the very people they used to supposedly resent so much. I often wonder if they see the irony.

easy to light a fire under someones ass when you're going to get drafted.