soil type for ACE strains

[RedDirtWarrior]

I know a lot of these landrace sativas generally grow in poor soil in their natural habitat.

I was wondering if these strains such as double thai, GT, Guatemala green haze etc. tolerate low nutrient levels and /or hard clay soil type you find in the tropics.

The soil I am growing in will be slightly acidic clay soil in a tropical jungle, I will break it up and mix with organic matter to make it more porous/able to drain.

I will correct the slightly acid PH with lime. Ph sits at around 5.8-6.3

 

[lost in a sea]

yeah they will all mostly tolerate poorer soil better than almost anything,,

if you do those things you will be on a winner!

happy growing

 

[RedDirtWarrior]

I am just trying to get the "ingredients" for monster sativas.

Is it the climate? a bigger hole? better soil? veg time?

Dubi keeps saying that the plants will grow LARGE and yield well in a climate like mine.

What if I give them the climate, right photoperiod a big hole to grow in and a good amount of veg time, will I see big plants still? even without quality soil?

 

[dubi]

Hello RedDirtWarrior,

Landrace sativas, especially the ones that are not tamed, grow very well in poor soils.

Tropical sativas usually dont need so much Nitrogen or nutrients like modern hybrids so they grow very well in light fertilzed mediums (especially when they are planted straight in soil in a sunny place) but try to fit the ph in a good range.

And of course, the better soil the better results

 

[RedDirtWarrior]

And of course, the better soil the better results

Dubi I can't help but feel like we are "ruining" our genetics by giving them great soil, very good fertilizers, good care.

Soon we will have these BABY plants that need to be taken care of all the time!

Most seed companies carry strains like this, they wont budge in poor soil, they need superior soil, right nutrient levels, and insects just love to eat them.

I chose ACE because they move away from this traditional seed making and they use landrace genetics (which do better in poor soils generally)

So far with GT I am impressed with its ability to handle poor soils. It does MUCH better than most strains but I think that ACE's breeding methods have chosen the tamer, more uniform plants (which perform well in the premium man-made soil) to create there stock.


GT is good but I have seen land race genetics thrive in similar soils where as GT just does "well"

my best GT's are going to finish about 4 ft tall, they look very healthy and just love the native soil! However some years back I grew a wild sativa in the same soil, not sure of genetics, but it just went nuts, branching everywhere, lots of little budsites all over. Grew over 10 foot on native soil. it did not need an ounce of care!

 

[idiit]

redwarrior, i'm far from an authority but i will speak from my experience of trying to grow od in horrible soil.

i'm giving up trying to amend shit soil. from now on i'm growing in replaced soil unless its very fertile. if the natural vegetation in the grow area is lush you've got great soil. if it's sparse then you've got shit soil. i'm going to replace the shit clay and sandy clays with a pure commercial potting mix. the potting mixes like fafard have an intrinsic ph buffering capacity i'm going to put an entire large commercial sized bag ( size of a commercial feed bag that goes up to past my belly button) in each hole. these in the past have yielded excellent results. no soil amended holes have come close in performance.

i believe that poor soil is a bad idea. you want great soil low in fertilizers % per my experience and my research for many landraces. so i'm saying from my perspective use low added fertilizer dosages in large quantities of great potting mix medium.

the problem for me and you is that being gorilla growers on vacant property it is hard to get the large bags of mix into the grow area without being detected. the best time for this is during off season when most people aren't thinking "patch thoughts". tough job to accomplish. also, this is compounded by the fact that clandestine grows on opl ( other ppls land), (hopefully not an individual but rather vacant commercial property) is that these grow areas don't stay secret for long. i've lost well over 50 gardens over the years and starting from scratch is a bitch.

 

[dubi]

Hello RedDirtWarrior,

You are right, nowadays most of the strains are mainly bred for indoor growing, they are generations away from their outdoor origin, therefore modern genetics are usually more sensible to outdoor conditions (rains, wind, fungus, changes of temps, insects ....)

Our tropical sativas have a strong and close outdoor roots, that's why they work much better outdoors in warm climates than modern indica hybrids, especially in tropical/subtropical climates like yours, you need plants that grow vigorously, sativas that reach a bit late their sexual maturity so they can reach good size in your short tropical photoperiod before start flowering, also plants that resist the humid and frequent rains of this kind of climates.

With plenty of sun and water they will perform much better than modern strains in your conditions, but of course, the better is the soil, the better are the results.

 

[RedDirtWarrior]

redwarrior, i'm far from an authority but i will speak from my experience of trying to grow od in horrible soil.

i'm giving up trying to amend shit soil. from now on i'm growing in replaced soil unless its very fertile. i'm going to replace the shit clay and sandy clays with a pure commercial potting mix.

i will continue my efforts to use native soil only and see wat i can do, i am in subtropical climate, some good volcanic soil if ya look fr it.

hey wait a sec if good soil grows big plants then why and how do nepalese highland sativas grow huge 1-lb plants in rocky soil?

 

[waveguide]

TY rdw for growing sustainably

there are a lot of poor people in the world who want some weed too.

 

[Peacer]

in my experiences nepalese jam and bangi haze guerilla doesnt need much care at all. golden tiger too. everytime Ive used liquid ferts in concetration from bottle Ive burned them when they were not so big. so Ive let them to grow and they grow good. but i use my homemade compost with commercial shit soil. they love it. be warned to use some N additive like buckhorn its not good - more leafy and smaller flowers but more branches at finish ...

 

[GrowbagUK]

I would say years of natural selection and co-evolution with soil biology have allowed this remarkably adaptable plant to thrive in poor soils.

Good point about breeders using high-quality soil or hydro which are far removed from natural conditions. Do any breeders apply fertility selection pressures?

The target market don't really demand this trait. The traditional landrace growers, who plant where most other crops fail, generally collect their own seed like they have been for thousands of years.

Your best bet is finding locally adapted genetics crossed with the best performing plant(s) you find from your ACE genes. A few generations of selection will give you plants which are better suited to your local conditions than any commercial seed breeder could provide imo.

You could try looking for other regions with similar soil types and gather genetics that have come from there.`Sounds like you could have a ferralsol: http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/707602/Ferralsol

 

[RedDirtWarrior]

I would say years of natural selection and co-evolution with soil biology have allowed this remarkably adaptable plant to thrive in poor soils.

Good point about breeders using high-quality soil or hydro which are far removed from natural conditions. Do any breeders apply fertility selection pressures?

The target market don't really demand this trait. The traditional landrace growers, who plant where most other crops fail, generally collect their own seed like they have been for thousands of years.

Your best bet is finding locally adapted genetics crossed with the best performing plant(s) you find from your ACE genes. A few generations of selection will give you plants which are better suited to your local conditions than any commercial seed breeder could provide imo.

You could try looking for other regions with similar soil types and gather genetics that have come from there.`Sounds like you could have a ferralsol: http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/707602/Ferralsol

Now I have a good selection of ACE/othergenetics to work with. This season I am planting (in 100% native soil)

-Zamaldelica
-mama thai
-Guatemala
- Several Tropical Seeds Co strains (consist mostly of Congo Pointe Noire/ciskei/swazi genetics) On a side note is TSC "Old Congo" (Congo Pointe Noire X Old Timers Haze) use ACE's OT haze???


I thought these seem pretty good seeing as they are all closely related to their landrace roots.

Golden Tiger did great in ALMOST 100% native soil, I cheated a lil with 10% coco added and very light chemical ferts early on, but once it established its root system in the tropical soil it did great on its own.

Will def order some more GT sometime in the future. The smoke it a little scary though, not exactly "smooth sailing" but extremely thought provoking and powerful.

and YES my soil is a ferrasol and/or oxisol.

 

[snufkin]

This is a bit off topic but I need some advice on growing ace seeds in coco.

Got some bangi and purple haze x thai which I over watered and killed half of them. The rest are doing a little better now that I stopped watering but are still yellow and the growth is really slow. The nute solution was 1/2 of the recommended amount. So what should I do to them to get things rolling? Is it any good to transplant to soil?

Also got some new seedlings which are doing better but still would be great if I could save the old ones. And all general advice on growing sativas in coco is very appriciated.

 

[dubi]

I would say years of natural selection and co-evolution with soil biology have allowed this remarkably adaptable plant to thrive in poor soils.

Good point about breeders using high-quality soil or hydro which are far removed from natural conditions. Do any breeders apply fertility selection pressures?

The target market don't really demand this trait. The traditional landrace growers, who plant where most other crops fail, generally collect their own seed like they have been for thousands of years.

Your best bet is finding locally adapted genetics crossed with the best performing plant(s) you find from your ACE genes. A few generations of selection will give you plants which are better suited to your local conditions than any commercial seed breeder could provide imo.

You could try looking for other regions with similar soil types and gather genetics that have come from there.`Sounds like you could have a ferralsol: http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/707602/Ferralsol

Very interesting insights GrowBagUK, you are right, nowadays modern ganja is grown using plenty of different fertilizers, fertilizer companies love to create needs to sell their new products, but the fact is that best ganja is grown organically without much sofistication.

Some of our strains are quite tamed and can be grown using all the modern fertilizers without any problem, but some strains just dont need too much extra nutrients and they work best in just a good and balanced soil mix. That's the case of Golden Tiger, Zamaldelica, Guatemala, Haze and Haze Thais.

 

[dubi]

Now I have a good selection of ACE/othergenetics to work with. This season I am planting (in 100% native soil)

-Zamaldelica
-mama thai
-Guatemala
- Several Tropical Seeds Co strains (consist mostly of Congo Pointe Noire/ciskei/swazi genetics) On a side note is TSC "Old Congo" (Congo Pointe Noire X Old Timers Haze) use ACE's OT haze???


I thought these seem pretty good seeing as they are all closely related to their landrace roots.

Golden Tiger did great in ALMOST 100% native soil, I cheated a lil with 10% coco added and very light chemical ferts early on, but once it established its root system in the tropical soil it did great on its own.

Will def order some more GT sometime in the future. The smoke it a little scary though, not exactly "smooth sailing" but extremely thought provoking and powerful.

and YES my soil is a ferrasol and/or oxisol.

Thanks RedDirtWarrior, im glad you are satisfied with your past Golden Tiger grow. It's indeed 'scary pot'

Other seedbanks are using oldtimer's haze to produce their own haze hybrids. I think the line is a good contribution to the community, we must thank oldtimer, charlie and to the ace seeds crew involved in her preservation.

Wish you also have a good experience with Zamaldelica and Guatemala!

 

[MJOFMJ420]

I am just trying to get the "ingredients" for monster sativas.

Is it the climate? a bigger hole? better soil? veg time?

Dubi keeps saying that the plants will grow LARGE and yield well in a climate like mine.

What if I give them the climate, right photoperiod a big hole to grow in and a good amount of veg time, will I see big plants still? even without quality soil?

YOU WILL BE GOLDEN