SOG Grow, whats the set-up???

[big-ugly-oger]

hi guys,

i'm an overgrow exile and will be starting my 3rd grow in a few weeks but i've been thinking SOG. i''m not 100% on all the details so maybe ya'll could contribute with advice, suggestions etc.

ok: i need 2 seperate compartments, lightprooof. individually ventilated??

in one i have my clones and mother and in the other the flowering babies, correct? how do i select and keep a mother? what light will i use for this? i have a 400w hps, should i get a different light? i dont have experience with hydro, is SOG do-able with soil?

the flowering compartment is straightforward enough i think, definitly use a hps and my 200w envirolight flowerer.

dont even know if i'm asking the right questions!! is there a good SOG guide around IC??

 

[MTF-Sandman]

You've got the basic idea...

Selecting a keeper mother is a personal choice...for a SOG, look for a plant that doesn't branch much on it's own so that it'll throw a single cola.

When you flip the clones to 12/12, trim off about 1/3-1/2 of the side branches (if there are any) and after the stretch, remove any remaining side branches. 1 gallons pots are pretty typical for SOGs, and yes soil will work fine.

The light you use just depends on your grow area...a 400 is great for up to a 3x3 space.

Did you have any specific questions about SOG? Dunno if there's a FAQ around here, but I'll bet there is somewhere.

Here's a couple of pics of some SOG's I've done for encouragement





And the outcome of the second pic...pulled over 1.5lbs outta a 2.5x4x5 closet under a 1K Agrosun.

 

[big-ugly-oger]

i remember u from OG MTF!

how do i keep my mother, in with the clones, constantly in veg?

what kind of turnaround time from clone to harvest, in an average grow/average yield, i know it can differ but an idea of how ong it takes the clones to root and veg to a workable size would be great?

what light should i use in veg?

thanks dude!

 

[GrowNub024]

I was wounderin the same thing about SOG.

Geez sandman how many plants did u have in there to get 1.5lbs?

 

[OGDread]

SOG, Sea of Green
Cash cropper technique. The idea is to plant as much very short single cola plants on 1 sqmtr as possiblem to harvest a "sea of green' of main cola's. 7*7 (49) plants per sqm. It can be done in hydro and soil. I have used 4 liter pots 7*7 snug next to each other. Even strains that branch out normally, wont in sea of green. Pick strains that stay low.
Advantage:
- Very short veg times, the plants need to stay short, veg times of 5 10 days are normal.
- High yield per sqm.
- Less trimming

Disadvantge:
- high number of plants (LEO doesnt like, much cuttings to be made, much things can go wrong, high labour)

Not really suited for perpetual dual chamber setups*, during 8 weeks flowering you need to keep only the mum, time it just right so 3 week before harvest you take 100 cuttings at once from you mother (assuming 2 sqm), root them for 10 days, veg them for ten days. Its hard to get them ecatly right, exactly on harvest time. So you will only use the veg light for three weeks for clones and 5 weeks only for the mum.


Very well suited for buying clones, get them the day you harvest, veg them in the bloom room for 5-10 days, go to flower. Takes only a week extra, and no mothers/clones to facilitate. Instead, you could use that veg room for another bloom sqm, and yield much more.

IMHO, for small grows, dual chambers, low numbers is the way to go. SCROG, or vertical lighting. Dual chambers, bloom and veg most certainly require different lightcycles.

Selecting a mother is easy, clone everything first: bloom em, smoke them, pick the best few, then see which clone easy from them.

I would use a 600-1200 setup for 1-2 sqm bloom room, and a 400 for vegging about a sqm.

*it would work very well with three rooms.. one veg, and two 4 weeks shifted bloom cycles, come to think of it, two sqm bloom surface would do, plant 1 sqm full, wait for weeks, do the next. This will enable you to grow new ones in 4 weeks, from mother to bloom ready vegged.

 

[pothead82]

Here is good thread about bonsai mom, maybe you can take a look, it explains a lot....
ALL ABOUT BONSAI MOMS
GOOD LUCK

 

[big-ugly-oger]

sandman. yeah, thats some serious yield there. i'd love that!

OGDread: very usefull, thanks. but to take 100 clones, how bid would the mother need to be ?

anyone any good links to cloning guides?

 

[MTF-Sandman]

I just use the bottom 3' of that closet for moms and clones with 132w of T8 lighting with the light on 18/6. That's the purpose of the second grow area

Depending on your cloning skills and rooting times, just take them about 3 weeks before the current crop finishes. That way you'll have your clones well rooted and ready to go as soon as the current crop is finished. I usually flower them at about 6", but that's not written in stone. Alot of times, I'll transplant the clones and flower them in the same day so that I don't have to deal with a bunch of pots in a small veg area.

That 400w will be fine for a 25 plant SOG...yields will vary depending on genetics, skill and environment...but you shouldn't have any problems getting ¼-½ lb out of a decent yielding strain. After you get to know the nuances of the strain and dial in your setup, getting close to an lb shouldn't be too tough.

I wanna say that I grew 35 to pull that with a strain that loves excessive light (MTF ). My setups are about yield per sq/ft...not g/w since I don't have alot of usable room...which seems to be a common problem with alot of folks that don't want to convert their entire place into a giant grow room.

 

[Guest]

If you plan on perpetual cloning,choosing a mom is most important and shouldnt be rushed.In a nutshell you want to flower out each female seedplant and make you choice from the flowered clone,not the flowered seedplant.For god sakes dont choose in veg because it's a "pretty" motherfucker or something,its the clones you will be flowering indefinately so its the clones that you want to make your choice by.You may get a good idea from the flowered seedplant,but there may be some subtle differences like finishing time so flower out the clones before making any decision.What I'll do is grow out my first set of clones,drop a pheno or two,flower out another set dropping other pheno's until you're left with the desired pheno.The three things I look for in the flowered clone are quality yield and finishing time.Structure can also be important is was pointed out earlier to try and choose a pheno with little side branching,thats real good advice too.Dont rush your decision and whatever you do,dont choose from a vegging plant you just dont know what you're getting

 

[OGDread]

I wanna say that I grew 35 to pull that with a strain that loves excessive light (MTF ). My setups are about yield per sq/ft...not g/w since I don't have alot of usable room...which seems to be a common problem with alot of folks that don't want to convert their entire place into a giant grow room.

Excellent point. Watts shwatts, yield sq/mtr per month, thats what counts.
In fact, if you have high ceiling, 10+ft, you could do two layers of sog, if your celing is 6/7ft (or bigger), you could go vertical. Im trying it, seems popular in the netherlands, where number of plants count. Ive seen three 600watts hanging vertical in a single line, lighting just 4 huge plants, each on the corner around the lamp, with a vertical pointed ventilator on the floor. 1 1/4 kilo yield..

Because of the big number of clones, buying is easier, but if not, you need multiple bonsai mums, and make lots of very small cuttings. The number one tip for cloning successfull is hygiene, I dump the cuttings in a bucket of water, with two tablespoons chloride to desinfect them between cutting and planting. Use clean sharp scissors, wash hands. High hum (75%90%), high temp(25-30c), jiffy with seedsoil (or standard soil with 50% perlite crushed), or rockwool cubes in a dome. Or one of them bubbly clonamathings.

What is exactly hard about selecting a mum? Just use a healthy potent one that clones easy.

The bloom room needs lots ventilation, there is lots of smell and heat from two lights, the veg rooms less so, less smell just one light, but some.

 

[Guest]

SOG is meant for almost 0 veg time. so i wouldn't put as much emphasis on vegging your clones. a few CFL's will keep your mom's alive. as having both sections side-by-side, it will be fine to use the same ventillation throughout.

as for choosing mom's, just watch how the different phenotypes grow. you'll want, like said above, plants that throw up a single cola, but this is not always important, as you can trim side branches. other deciding factors include final product, overall health/vigor, as well as ease of growth and handling of nutes. if you can tame a hard to grow plant that has the best end product, i would stick with that! in a few grows you'll have mastered that particular phenotype and it will consistently produce awesome buds for you

 

[HIDEyourBUD]

I was also considering doing a sog grow and was thinking of using my home made cloner for it. You think it would work?

 

[MTF-Sandman]

Kinda cramped IMO...I wouldn't go any denser than 9 per sq/ft personally. If you use that cloner, you're gonna be wasting alot of space around the sides of it...maybe pot some of them in coco to fill the space and alleviate the crowding in the cloner?

 

[killabrown420]

I'm starting a SOG grow now, I have a total of 4 lights in operation to accomodate how many clones I need for my space. I flower under a 400 w hps, 3x4 ft 5" square pots...I can fit 48 plants in there utilizing all my space

The other lights are a flouro for the cloning tray, a 100w MH for veg...and a 150w hps for multipurpose veg/flower...sorta like an overflow cabinet. My plan is to not keep mothers, but have bi monthly harvests, and take clones once a month right before starting 12/12, so that the bottom branches you have to trim off anyways become the next round of clones to go in. From cutting to flower I give them 4 wks...2-3 weeks for full rooting, and a week or two in dixie cups before they are cloned and transplanted into 5" pots w/ good nutrient rich soil

If everything works out the way its supposed to (i'm adding co2 to the mix) I could be harvesting up to a half lb each month, more likely I'll get ~ a qp but w/ co2 I'm setting my sights high.
You really need to find some good SOG plants too...something like this would do...

You need to read Ticks flowering thread...he gives a great tutorial on SOG I'll dig up a link for ya --->

 

[big-ugly-oger]

great, i'm liking this. loads of suggestions and info popping up, thanks to all.

Skeletor: dont choose the mom in veg? can you take clones from a flowered plant? maybe i'm missing something here but when should i choose the mother and how? treat me like a 10 year old for a minute cos i'm not gettin it!

i'm set on getting a good SOG up and running so i wanna make sure i know my shit

 

[OGDread]

great, i'm liking this. loads of suggestions and info popping up, thanks to all.

Skeletor: dont choose the mom in veg? can you take clones from a flowered plant? maybe i'm missing something here but when should i choose the mother and how? treat me like a 10 year old for a minute cos i'm not gettin it!

i'm set on getting a good SOG up and running so i wanna make sure i know my shit

The idea is to take clones from several mums in veg, grow the clones roots in three weeks, veg the clones for 2/3 weeks, flower the clones for 8 weeks, dry, test, and during this time leave the mothers vegging (she probably will require pruning..) now you have smoked the clones, decide which mothers to keep and which you can finally throw away... hey, noonse said is was going to be fast :smile:

 

[HiKing808]

does anyone know of any sogs that used a 250?
if i flower at 6" more often than not i'll end up w/ 12"-15" plants is this too tall for a 250?

 

[MTF-Sandman]

^^That's fine for a 250w setup. I usually flip at 6" and they end up around 18-20"...the tighter they're packed in the more they'll stretch.

 

[Guest]

also something that hasn't been mentioned yet.
square pots and grow bags work best for SoG, the round pots waste a lot of space.