Slownickel lounge, pull up a chair. CEC interpretation

[slownickel]

Atlantis.

We're all pretty sure that Atlantis is Peru.

 

[Shcrews]

Shcrews, i ran your numbers with aa8.2 Ca:
Ca 79.2%
Mg 17.5%
K 2.9%
Na 0.4%

From that perspective your soil looks pretty good. Needs micros. Can do the math for that later. Need more Ca and K but not sure if you can achieve that just by adding gyp and k sulfate. Idont know how to do that in one go. But your S is low and your pH is too high (have youchecked your water?) so elemental Sulfur seems like a good choice. Spectrum has a chart that shows how much to apply and if you work out the numbers you can see how much it will raise S which should maatch P i think. Hopefully someone else chimes in wo knows what theyre talkimg about..

thanks! is that for the native or the Coots mix ("light")?

no i havent had my water checked, i'll send in a sample. should have done that when i had issues last year.

still not totally clear on what i should be amending with.. Orechron suggested i only need manganese in the Coots mix ("light"). i figured i would need to do more than that... any help would be much appreciated. i need to go and re-read this thread for sure.

 

[reppin2c]

It's no wonder year after year schrews has pretty good grows. Not bad not bad. Bump the micros a touch, the microlife and let em roll.

Sulfur to bring the PH down.

When you get used to one lab other labs are weird

 

[plantingplants]

Shcrewsthat wasfor the coots. Interesting orechron doesnt mind the 7.3 pH...

 

[orechron]

I do mind 7.3 pH. If my entire mix was at that pH.

Orechron suggested i only need manganese in the Coots mix ("light"). i figured i would need to do more than that... any help would be much appreciated. i need to go and re-read this thread for sure.

You have to look at what I wrote in the context of your situation:

"You could amended the native separately with micros while keeping it in that pH range (6.3-6.5) and that might prevent that weird leaf twist that pops up in some plants. I'd try to get Zinc up to 20ppm down there with at least 200ppm P. The 1:10 Zn ratio is a number that others here can agree is safe. Manganese with 1:1 Mn:Fe is good, probably a big factor in those large, full stacks of flowers your plants get. Copper is more debatable, I try to keep in under 10ppm because it'll be there forever if you go too high.

Old Coot's isn't looking too bad. If you go with Slownickel's method of CEC calc based on the AA8.2 numbers then you're at 82.5%Ca, 14.3%Mg, 3%K, in other words the lower range of his wheelhouse because Ca could be higher and Mg lower with his approach. I'd be really happy with the numbers and maybe only add more manganese to that layer.

By treating both soils differently you'd have luxury levels of calcium in the Coot's and increased micro availability below when your roots reach it. Or you could get more calcium down there and just spray micros all season. Either way you're not looking at a ton of amendments for a knock out season."




You have several avenues available this year. Above is one that I thought would be viable or a best of both worlds approach, particularly because of how your plants grew or filled out last year. You could of course mix up the entire mound plus 6"-1' of native below and try and find a middle ground (pH 6.8ish), which I also think is a great option because I have seen really healthy, high yielding plants that started in that range. Up to you though.

You're going to encounter opposing views with this. On one hand you can have super high Calcium and the benefits that brings, on the other you can have better micro availability and slightly higher K reserve for later in the season. There may be a happy middle ground but in my experience the risk of calcium deficiency is too great. You can use gypsum on lower pH soil, but will you have enough K? Will you water too much and leach things out of the root zone?

Either way, spray micros again this year.

 

[jidoka]

Screws...what is your average temp and humidity?

While I do not obsess about vpd I do take the ability of the plant to respire into account

Elements that are not part of the sugar/exudate cycle are only/mostly mobile in the xylem...upward mobility. So Ca, Si, B and Mn depend on respiration.

So high temp/low humidity situations you need to load them on the high side in your soil or spray them.

Loading them heavy is a double edge sword for Mn though. As you load more cations in your soil pH goes up and Mn availability drops rapidly

My avg summer day is 95-100 F and 15% humidity. Ca, B and Mn are something I am spraying weekly. And for me Ca and Mn are going to be chelated with glycine because of increased mobility until the amino is cleaved off.

 

[caterpillar710]

Acetates work bomb too

 

[orechron]

Wasn't it Tom Hill that was one of the first guys here telling people to spray micros? It became more of a thing with people growing in coots type mixes as they are often over-limed.

You can do constant small doses. I've done it indoors because I didn't want to wait a year to reach target ppm's for everything, so I crept up every two weeks. I saw Mn toxicity several times though. Even if your pH is high you an give them a short window of availability that way it seems. If Shcrews' mounds test differently it might mean that a single drench mix for the plot might not be the best route.

 

[caterpillar710]

When he was growing they sold brix mix that had micro chelates in it. Spraying that went hand in hand with the mix he was using

 

[jidoka]

Acetates work bomb too

Verging on crossing the woo line here but hell yea. Acetate is a short chain fatty acid. So along with the element it delivers over twice the energy to the plant as glycine (fats are 9 calories per gram and proteins are 4)

 

[caterpillar710]

The plant response is awesome and required application amounts are very low.

I've been using ca acetate and ca glycinate together in my sprays ... fuck it

 

[Shcrews]

Screws...what is your average temp and humidity?

While I do not obsess about vpd I do take the ability of the plant to respire into account

Elements that are not part of the sugar/exudate cycle are only/mostly mobile in the xylem...upward mobility. So Ca, Si, B and Mn depend on respiration.

So high temp/low humidity situations you need to load them on the high side in your soil or spray them.

Loading them heavy is a double edge sword for Mn though. As you load more cations in your soil pH goes up and Mn availability drops rapidly

My avg summer day is 95-100 F and 15% humidity. Ca, B and Mn are something I am spraying weekly. And for me Ca and Mn are going to be chelated with glycine because of increased mobility until the amino is cleaved off.

average summer day here would be 90 degrees, about 20-30% humidity

 

[jidoka]

So my opinion...provided you want it...is plant in that coots. Get you some K acetate and learn to use that meter...cause late in the season last yr lack of K cost you yield.

spray micros with extra emphasis on Mn and no iron, maybe a bit extra Zn also since your P will block its uptake. Also spray a little B, Co and Mo

That is it...let her rip tater chip

 

[plantingplants]

What ppm you dudes sprayin Co and Mo at....

If you care to share

 

[reppin2c]

I think of foliar and soil seperate from each other but as a compliment to each other. Build the soil first and use foliar to fill blanks and change influences. I could be totally off but I'll keep on marching to the beat of this drum. Maybe I'll March off a cliff lol

Overall though I think balance is king

 

[caterpillar710]

Y'all keep missing a super important point and why spraying is so good/essential but it's fun to watch

 

[caterpillar710]

You're hovering around it but it's the WHY of what you're talking about

 

[MrBungle]

ain't it to get immobile elements into the plant tissue.. cause roots have a hard time translocating them?

 

[caterpillar710]

Nah

 

[led05]

This Thread

This Thread

This thread honestly is about as jammed packed with actual knowledge as anyone on this site or any other site for that matter..., practical useful knowledge that effects the day to day for anyone, growing anything... Not some deep esoteric scientific articles but just a bunch of people who know their shit and willing to share it with the mass...

It's worth reading thru this more than once, even for those who think they have it all mastered or are close to this, there's that much in here, we all can at least "brush up" a wee bit ;0

No other forums for any plants have anything to this length or close as to what's jammed in here...

Slo and all contributors - thanks, it doesn't get any better, it's great and reassuring to see people do still share, somewhere in this world asking little or nothing in return.