Slownickel lounge, pull up a chair. CEC interpretation

[cannascholar]

High Al (1-1,400ppm logan) hasn't shown any noticeable issues for me. Increasing ph, Mn, and OM is supposed to make it less of an issue. Applying over 1000lbs Ca silicate to my acidic native soon so the pH should be in check. An AEA rep has also stated low biology will boost Al levels.

 

[HillMizer]

Don't get discouraged Plantingplants, you're using more science and wasting less money than most canna farmers have/will/do. There's a lot to this farming thing.

 

[slownickel]

Hey Slow & Led, I tested my well water today to compare to spectrum's results, I got a pH of 7.6 and an EC of 1.4 mmho/cm, Exactly the same they reported.

Then I pH'ed the water to 6.47 and got an EC of 1.28 mmho/cm.

With carbonates and bicarbonates in my water I really expected a lower EC after pH'ing my water down, not sure how to interpret the results??? any input is welcomed?

What did you use to pH the water down?

 

[cbcool]

What did you use to pH the water down?

Sorry I meant to state that, I used citric acid.

 

[oti$]

I've got catching up to do...subbed

 

[plantingplants]

jidoka, i think he addressed the 3000 thing before-- said sometjing like at least theyre trying to recognize that most peoples calcium isnt available, i think.

Slow, i thought they sifted it as part of K3?


Shcrews, i ran your numbers with aa8.2 Ca:
Ca 79.2%
Mg 17.5%
K 2.9%
Na 0.4%

From that perspective your soil looks pretty good. Needs micros. Can do the math for that later. Need more Ca and K but not sure if you can achieve that just by adding gyp and k sulfate. Idont know how to do that in one go. But your S is low and your pH is too high (have youchecked your water?) so elemental Sulfur seems like a good choice. Spectrum has a chart that shows how much to apply and if you work out the numbers you can see how much it will raise S which should maatch P i think. Hopefully someone else chimes in wo knows what theyre talkimg about..

 

[led05]

Been having similar problems and slow is helping me through it. Several others have mentioned shaking things loose with gypsum and to be careful. I didn't fully understand what that meant until my last round of testing. I threw 2x the amount of gypsum cause it wasn't showing up in my tests correctly by my math. Not only that, but everything else shot off the charts in a normally mild/average soil. (Black Gold)

As I am understanding it, the gypsum shakes everything it pushes out of the soil loose. When it does this, your soil tests will show higher levels of those other elements. You said you watered for a week, but how much water did you push through it?

To combat this, I added a couple hundred pounds of gypsum to my beds and I am going to push 40% of the soil volume in water through it over the next 2 weeks before I test. I will first check with slowN, but that is what I got cookin' in my head.

The Ca & S in the Gypsum displaces / pushes / precipitates out the others, the S being acidic balances the Alkaline Ca, hence why Gypsum remains relatively neutral PH, relatively. If it's pushing out other things your PH will shift, just less than manner other things that do the same type of work.... How often is your soil changing from the point of the last test, previous week etc - understanding, having reasonable expectations / parameters and trying to stay within..... This is farming...

What about that water you're using to Leech, what's in it, what effect does this also have on your soil? Both the Gypsum and Water (H) are leeching / displacing / precipitating out other elements, cations, anions and so on... And there are other things at play here, for instance where I am there's a shit load of limestone that does leech some, so does the shale, different times of the year, diff temps, diff saturation etc this leeches differently too, it's just another piece... It's why I'm comfortable having diff Base Sat points at diff points of the year, I know this will happen, it's advantageous and disadvantageous at diff points in time, I manage this, I expect it, it happens....

Unless you're all gardening in small pots with stable environmental factors and no micros things will be dynamic in your soil...

Gypsum isn't the new Woo Woo juice but it is one of the best if not best cheap solutions available to solve varying issues that often are routed in Ca def and related Micros that directly interact with Ca....

The lab and soil tests are your barometer and one that is solely a SINGULAR point in time, you better understand what's happening and your native soil, native precip amounts etc and how all these interact or else you'll be sending samples weekly, not understanding, relying on others 1000's of miles away and chasing your tail.... The lab, Gypsum are tools in your arsenal, just one of many, IMHO

Some People seem to be worrying too much about small discrepancies from a "calculated" formula that by the time they've gotten their results back has already changed, especially if something is already growing in it... !

 

[plantingplants]

Led i appreciate some of your points there. I haven't found my soil to be as dynamic as you describe it. I might argue that small pots change quicker. Doesnt this also depend on CEC? Some soils are like titanic to steer right?

My discrepancy wasn't small but either way, I'm not worrying- only trying to figure out what works. Trial and error.

Hazy, I first tried my calculation on a gallon of the same soil and the test actually came pretty close. It had double the AA8.2 Ca. The only significant difference between my latest test and that one was the Ca. The other elements also went down (not as significantly). So I have no idea why that happened for you, but I would definitely try irrigating the fuck out of it. I only had 125 gal of soil so I took a hose end sprinkler (just a metal passive one that shot up and out) and let that thing run for many hours off and on fr a couple days, even overnight by accident. Then it rained for three days. Not sure the #s but it should be pretty well rinsed.

 

[mapinguari]

Like this lab results , their numbers add up / tie, where they based ?

Hey led, it's FGL, with labs in Chico and on down the valley.

slow, thanks for having a look, too. It's from a system coming out of the Sierra/Cascade interface, long used for irrigation.

Is there really such a thing as too good? What would that mean?

 

[mapinguari]

Could you call and ask them if that EC was calculated from the ppms or was it tested with a conductivity meter?

Sure can, lemme check it out.

 

[slownickel]

Hey led, it's FGL, with labs in Chico and on down the valley.

slow, thanks for having a look, too. It's from a system coming out of the Sierra/Cascade interface, long used for irrigation.

Is there really such a thing as too good? What would that mean?

When water has nothing in it, it tends to pick up more nutrients and wash them away.

 

[HillMizer]

Just got in 2nd batch of results from my indoor beds. Used k3 procedure for this one. First thing that stood out is NO3 went from 193 ppm to 19ppm in 40 days. Any thoughts? Procedural discrepency, or just burned through it?

 

[plantingplants]

the labs always say to immediately air dry the sample for N. What aboit your nh4?

 

[HillMizer]

the labs always say to immediately air dry the sample for N. What aboit your nh4?

I didn't use an oven, it just hung out in a bucket for a couple days them got sifted and sent. Nh4 only changed from 23ppm to 19ppm.

 

[slownickel]

Just got in 2nd batch of results from my indoor beds. Used k3 procedure for this one. First thing that stood out is NO3 went from 193 ppm to 19ppm in 40 days. Any thoughts? Procedural discrepency, or just burned through it?

Could be that you have some big pieces of yourOM there are acting as a sponge and holding all that N that got sifted out....

Why not raise your concern to the lab.

They will usually retest for you. Tell them which sample you sent in first and which one was the second testing.

 

[jidoka]

The beds are 4 lights each and the mix is 50% peat...is that right? And how many yards?

 

[HillMizer]

Could be that you have some big pieces of yourOM there are acting as a sponge and holding all that N that got sifted out....

Why not raise your concern to the lab.

They will usually retest for you. Tell them which sample you sent in first and which one was the second testing.

Thanks! I'll check with them.

The beds are 4 lights each and the mix is 50% peat...is that right? And how many yards?

That's correct. 4 yards total. 1/2 yard per light.

 

[jidoka]

I have never measured at 40 days but I have seen drops like that in NO3 and K in a single grow at 1/2 yard per light.

Kinda shocking but it happens. Kinda makes you rethink your strategy. To me it takes a yard a light in this kind of soil to do a true water only grow.

 

[Dakine]

Just filled out the forms. Gonna get this stuff checked out.. I know its from Nursery Bags, but from about 1-2 years ago. Didnt even grow anything in it, its had about 2 years worth of leaves and stuff being basically composted on top..



Just dug it out to clear this area for my new outdoor grow. Had to get below it because I remember theres about 1/2 ft - 1 ft of straight rocks underneath.. I wanna use that dirt/soil I dug out at the very bottom of the bed. Then put A layer of my old used soil on top. Then A fresh layer of some Fox Farms Ocean Forest Soil mixed with ORganic Pro Mix on top.. Plus some worms and such, but this isnt the no-til thread so I wont go there haha..




But I do want to try and run high calcium in this bed.. Prob add some Crushed oystershells to the middle layer. Then top dress/mix some gypsum and A little lime in the top 3 inches..

 

[HillMizer]

I have never measured at 40 days but I have seen drops like that in NO3 and K in a single grow at 1/2 yard per light.

Kinda shocking but it happens. Kinda makes you rethink your strategy. To me it takes a yard a light in this kind of soil to do a true water only grow.

Thanks. I actually saw a 500ppm increase in K. M3 and AA results. They were basically water only. They got watered with Crab Hydrolysate, Kelp and biologicals 1X. The first results were k1 the second were k3. I feel like that could account for a lot.

I'll post the side by side results.

1 yard/light is pretty hefty. I'd have to go a full 2' plus deep to get that out of my setup. I might go for it. I added all of my prunings back as mulch throughout the cycle, I was worried about the nitrate, but maybe it's good that I did that. The prunings really seemed to be consumed by the soil quite rapidly.