Sick Kali Mist plant,..

[DIYer]

Ok so im growing indoors, 1.4 gallon pots, filled with MoonshineMan Mix and having a little trouble with my one Kali Mist plant. My 1st thought was cal/mag deficiency so i added a little bit while watering as directed by the back of the bottle and still the problem continues to grow. What is this for sure and what should i do?

 

[DIYer]

now that i look closer maybe its not cal/mag,.. ive always seen that to be more red spots, this gets to be a more light brown

 

[DIYer]

anyone?

 

[HeadyPete]

Fill out the infirmary form please.....it's like telling your doctor you don't feel well over the phone and expecting him/her to diagnose and prescribe medicine without seeing you.

Off the top of my head....overfeeding leading to lockout/nuteburn. Kali is a light feeder, like all sativas, and if your lighting is not super bright, they require even less food.

Mixing soils is tricky for a number of reasons...

If not mixed thoroughly and completely, you can have hot spots of nutes in the soil which will burn, and if you add too much dry fert to your mix it will fry your plants and only transplanting will save them. If you add liquids on top of it (calmag is a 2-0-0 nitrogen blast), you compound the problem...

The first place to start is the Infirmary form.

 

[DIYer]

Sorry but i don't see an "infirmary form" anywhere, let alone in a sticky in the infirmary section telling me that's a must here. I mixed the moonshine mix very well so im sure we can rule that out. As for light ive got a ton of it, 220Watts four 21" cfl duel tubes within 1-2 inches of the plants, behind glass so heats not an issue. No fert have been added either, just the organic soils and perlite so far,.. moonshine mix calls for the ferts to be added later.
I'm no expert but this doesn't look like nute burn to me, more of yellow light brown spots and not really starting at the leaf tips like ive seen nute burn do. Solid color spots too, ive seen nute burn go red at the tips and work its way in. I can't find any pic in the sick plant guide that looks like this.

Anyone know?

 

[Neville H.]

Sorry but i don't see an "infirmary form" anywhere, let alone in a sticky in the infirmary section telling me that's a must here. I mixed the moonshine mix very well so im sure we can rule that out. As for light ive got a ton of it, 220Watts four 21" cfl duel tubes within 1-2 inches of the plants, behind glass so heats not an issue. No fert have been added either, just the organic soils and perlite so far,.. moonshine mix calls for the ferts to be added later.
I'm no expert but this doesn't look like nute burn to me, more of yellow light brown spots and not really starting at the leaf tips like ive seen nute burn do. Solid color spots too, ive seen nute burn go red at the tips and work its way in. I can't find any pic in the sick plant guide that looks like this.

Anyone know?

What's the ph of your runoff?

 

[loko17]

Sorry but i don't see an "infirmary form" anywhere, let alone in a sticky in the infirmary section telling me that's a must here. I mixed the moonshine mix very well so im sure we can rule that out. As for light ive got a ton of it, 220Watts four 21" cfl duel tubes within 1-2 inches of the plants, behind glass so heats not an issue. No fert have been added either, just the organic soils and perlite so far,.. moonshine mix calls for the ferts to be added later.
I'm no expert but this doesn't look like nute burn to me, more of yellow light brown spots and not really starting at the leaf tips like ive seen nute burn do. Solid color spots too, ive seen nute burn go red at the tips and work its way in. I can't find any pic in the sick plant guide that looks like this.

Anyone know?

Here you go M8
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=11688

 

[DIYer]

What's the ph of your runoff?

there is none,..
im not watering enough to have any,.. now you can think thats a problem in itself but bottom line if you read about growing in MoonshineMix its very simple and you don't over water or you will be over feeding,.. you add only pH adjusted water (6.5-6.7 is what im giving her) and no ferts because the soil is rich enough. I have 4 plants growing in the same mix and this is the only one showing any problems. Granted it is the only sativa though, the others are black domina and lowlife blueberry. Anywho, pH should not be an issue given my attention to following the direction HERE

Here are the answers to the "form", thanks loko17,.. this should totally be a sticky so people know to fill it out.


How long has this problem been going on?
a week
What STRAIN are you growing?
kali mist
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?)
seed
What is the age of your plants?
one month
How long have they been in the soil mixture they are in now?
one month
How Tall are the plants?
one foot
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in?
veg
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc)
none
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot)
1.4 gal
What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?)
see here
What Nutrient's are you using?
none,.. see above link for why
How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water?
*Knowing the brand is very helpful*
see here
How often are you feeding?
just pH adjusted water every few days
If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients?
N/A
What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect)
see here
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used?
N/A
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"?
there is none
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen?
Hanna meter to set pH of water
How often are you watering?
Every few days as the soil gets dry, finger tip test
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding?
N/A
What size bulb are you using?
220W CFL, four 21" 55W duel tube
What is the distance to the canopy?
2-3 inches, behind glass
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity)
31%
What is the canopy temperature?
88F
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range)
77F
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.)
20ish
Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ?
N/A
Is the fan blowing directly at plants?
no
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist?
pretty much yes
Is your water HARD or SOFT?
Culligan water
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water?
see above answer
Are you using water from a water softener?
see above answers
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched?
a little yes
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when?
no
Are plant's infected with pest's?
no

 

[DIYer]

so i just went to water my plants and for the heck of it checked the pH of the 5 gallons of water i set to 6.7pH a few weeks ago and it drifted up to 7.0,.. maybe that's normal and some of you are saying duh, but i never knew it would do that,.. if in fact it would do that. So i don't know if that could cause the problems in the pics i posted but i thought id mention it. Obviously i corrected it for this watering.

 

[loko17]

Hi again DIYer,

Sativas need much less fertilizers than indicas so my first guess was overfert but knowing they are already 1 month old and started from seed the nuteburn would show up earlier than a week ago. Have they been started in this mix or u repotted them?

 

[HeadyPete]

Well my friend, 220 w of cfl is not a lot of light. CFLs have poor penetration and really drop in intensity as you move beyond a few inches away.....600 watts of hps or more....that's what I would call a lot of light.

Light dictates how much food the plants can handle.

loko17 is 100% correct in that sats eat less (and are more advanced/difficult to care for) than indicas.

What exactly is Culligan water? What is in it? PPM? Any sodium, as in water softener salt? If there is, the sodium will kill your plants. You cannot use water from a softener. Water must be taken before the softener.

Last thing.... PH is always important. Some guys get away with not checking it in soil because they are lucky their specific conditions happen to be good, but when things go wrong.....

PH is important to every living thing and any advanced grower will fully understand and control ph for the good of their crops.

 

[HeadyPete]

so i just went to water my plants and for the heck of it checked the pH of the 5 gallons of water i set to 6.7pH a few weeks ago and it drifted up to 7.0,.. maybe that's normal and some of you are saying duh, but i never knew it would do that,.. if in fact it would do that. So i don't know if that could cause the problems in the pics i posted but i thought id mention it. Obviously i corrected it for this watering.

The ph rises over time because minerals in the water (cal and mag) are alkaline and slow to react and bind (cancel out) any acid molecules in the water. This effect (buffer) is ongoing and ph drifts up. Ph will also change as a plant eats more or less of the nutes out of solution. you can tell plant health and how much they eat by watching ph swing and ppm count.

 

[DIYer]

Well my friend, 220 w of cfl is not a lot of light. CFLs have poor penetration and really drop in intensity as you move beyond a few inches away.....600 watts of hps or more....that's what I would call a lot of light.

Trust me there is no penitration issue with how i have these CFL's setup. The entire plant top to bottom is less then 3" from the lights,.. they run beside the plant and the plant slowly rotates at 1/3rd RPM roughly. I'm testing some things, namely how this effects the over all height of a plant.

Light dictates how much food the plants can handle.
loko17 is 100% correct in that sats eat less (and are more advanced/difficult to care for) than indicas.

Good info, but if loko17 is also right about it not being nute burn because it only started a bit ago then this isn't the problem.

What exactly is Culligan water? What is in it? PPM? Any sodium, as in water softener salt? If there is, the sodium will kill your plants. You cannot use water from a softener. Water must be taken before the softener.

http://www.culligan.com/en/
You get it at walmart for like a $1 for 5 gallons. ppm's are below 40. I've grown both the kali and black domina in it DWC style before under a 400w hps with no problems like this so i really doubt its the water.

Last thing.... PH is always important. Some guys get away with not checking it in soil because they are lucky their specific conditions happen to be good, but when things go wrong.....
PH is important to every living thing and any advanced grower will fully understand and control ph for the good of their crops.

Well as i said i started out with 6.7ph adjusted water but it did drift a bit up for a few waterings. It's corrected now and always will be from here on out as ill check it, never knew a 5 gallon jug would drift after setting it like that, if it in fact would,.. but again i don't know if this is why i have the problem i do. Since i started this post only maybe a few more little spots have appeared. It's not a big bad problem or anything, plants still growing,.. actually now that i think of it this all started on one lower leaf, a leaf that had lost its sister leaf across from it due to my snapping it off my accident. Could stress cause the spots in the pics?

 

[DIYer]

Hi again DIYer,

Sativas need much less fertilizers than indicas so my first guess was overfert but knowing they are already 1 month old and started from seed the nuteburn would show up earlier than a week ago. Have they been started in this mix or u repotted them?

Yes they've been in this mix since about 1/2"inch high, a few days after the seeds stuck there head out.

 

[707Corridor]

Hey just to help out a bit...did you continue to read the post "The Complete guide to Sick Plants,pH, and Pest troubles"...that someone gave you the link too? http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=11688

if you look at it it seems like you have a calcium def maybe?

Under the Calcium def section for hydro and soiless mixes it says

"Calcium gets locked out of Hydro and Soil less Mediums at ph levels of 2.0- 5.3
Calcium is absorbed best in Hydro and Soil less Mediums at ph levels of 5.4-5.8 (Wouldn’t recommend having a ph over 6.5 in hydro and soil less mediums.) Best range for hydro and soil less mediums is 5.0 to 6.0. Anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a Calcium Deficiency."

If im not mistaken you said you have your Ph set at 6.7?...this might be the source of your problem.

 

[DIYer]

Hey just to help out a bit...did you continue to read the post "The Complete guide to Sick Plants,pH, and Pest troubles"...that someone gave you the link too? http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=11688

if you look at it it seems like you have a calcium def maybe?

Under the Calcium def section for hydro and soiless mixes it says

"Calcium gets locked out of Hydro and Soil less Mediums at ph levels of 2.0- 5.3
Calcium is absorbed best in Hydro and Soil less Mediums at ph levels of 5.4-5.8 (Wouldn’t recommend having a ph over 6.5 in hydro and soil less mediums.) Best range for hydro and soil less mediums is 5.0 to 6.0. Anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a Calcium Deficiency."

If im not mistaken you said you have your Ph set at 6.7?...this might be the source of your problem.

I see what you're trying to say but that makes no sense,.. who runs there pH at 5.0-6.0 in ANY grow medium? If you did i suspect you'd have a hell of a lot more problems then the one singular problem im having. It says Calcium is absorbed best at 5.4-5.8,.. but not that it isn't absorbed at all at 6.7ph at all,.. and 6.7ph is exactly what MoonshineMix says your water is suppose to be at.

Maybe the moral of this story is you can't get everything nuts on but im just trying to follow the directions as best i can and reap the success others have had using organic moonshinemix

 

[Aleksis Stoned]

A quick hint:

When posting images of sick plants always take photos from lower side of the leafs too! It tells you much more about the condition of the plants.

 

[DIYer]

interesting,.. why does it?

here be top and bottom of the same spotted leaf...

 

[DIYer]

i cant believe that in the biggest mj forum ive ever been able to find on the net no one can tell me what ails this one little mj plant

 

[Aleksis Stoned]

It's easier to spot fungai and pests from the lower side of the leafs. I'm really a noobiedoobie and can't say for sure but i had something similiar in hydro when i overferted it with bio novas missing link. Hence you've disclosed the possibility of nuteburn that could be a possible biological sickness or overdose. So while proffs are analyzing yor pictures please be carefull and wash your hands EVERYTIME you have touched it and are going to operate with different plant...just for sure. One of my unknown sativaish plant died in just a couple of a days after somekind of fungai attacked and it didn't have any other signs of sickness than a couple of rusty spots so be carefull (man i cried...had to chop down everything because they all were clones from the same plant). This is the reason i'm now running a quick hydro before looking into coconut again.