shortening internode length

[finallylegal]

I have had 2 good strains that have internode lengths that make them difficult to share environments with other plants. The one I'm considering dumping now is Critical Jack Herer from Delicious Seeds. In veg the plant wants to climb with 3" internode gaps. In flower it wants to run like a vine. I am no master grower and may very well be shorting it some condition that this variety requires. But recently I read (in a hydro store literature) that Nitrozyme is a "stacker" and can be used to shorten internode length. I read about the product and it looks like kelp which I already use as an additive to soil. Nitrozyme is meant to be used as a foliar spray.

Any suggestions?

 

[MrBelvedere]

Yes Nitrozyme gets good reviews. Make sure you are using metal halide light for your veg cycle. For sativas like Jack, you can grow them 4 inches tall and then immediately flip them to 12/12 and that will keep them somewhat smaller. During the first 3 weeks of flower, use metal halide blue spectrum to keep the nodes short as they do the 3 week stretch... then switch to HPS... thx

 

[finallylegal]

Yes Nitrozyme gets good reviews. Make sure you are using metal halide light for your veg cycle. For sativas like Jack, you can grow them 4 inches tall and then immediately flip them to 12/12 and that will keep them somewhat smaller. During the first 3 weeks of flower, use metal halide blue spectrum to keep the nodes short as they do the 3 week stretch... then switch to HPS... thx

Thank you Mr. B. I will try the Nitrozyme.

My setup doesn't lend itself to taking all your advice. Trying to comply with VT med laws I can only have 2 in flower at one time. So veg a long time and SCROG 1 plant about every 4 or 5 weeks.

In Veg closet big ladies mix with tiny babies under 4' 6 bulb T5. Have taken to mixing 3 6500K and 3 3000K bulbs in attempt to cut down on the stretch but can't really say it works. Have tried using a MH (Sunmaster Blue Ice 5500K) when 1st going 12/12 but still saw a big stretch on a 'problem' variety and thought it just lengthened flower time. It wasn't a controlled experiment so am just guessing on that but went back to HPS. Will see what the Nitrozyme does.

 

[acridlab]

Alot of stretchy strains need alot of intensity with mh.. if u can, slam em under a 1000 air cooled, if possible.. that will slow em down,, and u got to constantly top and bend some genetics...
B52 by advanced will stop a stretch really good if u use it in weeks one and two.. Alot of people don't know about that, but it's fact.. although it stops a stretch, I don't like doing it.. I prefer just training the living shit out of em... top, bend, pinch,, all that anyhow,, if they're good strains,,just get to know them before u pitch them out... most of the best strains are the long legged ones, imo,,, ppeace

 

[growteam]

Alot of stretchy strains need alot of intensity with mh.. if u can, slam em under a 1000 air cooled, if possible.. that will slow em down,, and u got to constantly top and bend some genetics...
B52 by advanced will stop a stretch really good if u use it in weeks one and two.. Alot of people don't know about that, but it's fact.. although it stops a stretch, I don't like doing it.. I prefer just training the living shit out of em... top, bend, pinch,, all that anyhow,, if they're good strains,,just get to know them before u pitch them out... most of the best strains are the long legged ones, imo,,, ppeace

Thats good advice. MH and bending. In my opinion if he does those two things alone, it will help tons.

 

[barnyard]

prune to desired shape and size...or scrog...she's like clay

 

[waveguide]

avoid nitrates during stretch - or so i read

 

[finallylegal]

still looking for answers

still looking for answers

Thanks for input Acrid, growteam, barn and wave; but, I think you are all talking about how to treat her in the flower stretch.

This little baby is in the stretch from go. Here is a picture of 3 clones taken at the same time on 1/5; a Critical Jack (left), NLxBB (center) and Moby Dick (rt.). You can see that CJH has already been topped and the internode gaps are already 3 inches. The others have not been topped. I want to use something topical, if practical, to slow her down during the next 4 or 5 weeks of Veg. She won't go 12/12 for that long or maybe 6 more weeks at most.

They've all had a 2 light doses of calmag but you can see the CJH has red/purple in stems and petioles. I have read Mg shortage causes the coloration and stretching but don't know if that's the cause here.

Also, if Nitrozyme is just kelp why pay > for another product. Any more input appreciated.
Thanks..........FL

 

[MJPassion]

How far do you keep her from those T5s?

I veg under 100% 6500K T5s and have noticed that when I lower the lights to right above the cannopy, 3 inches or less, that nodes really stack up.

Maybe adjust your veg spectrum and try putting those babies right under the lights.

When they go to flower, they will stretch enough for ya I'd think.

 

[MJPassion]

I didn't see the pic previous to replying.

Lift her to the light and she won't lift herself as much.

I typically don't lift my lights until the plants grow into them.

Indicas end up looking like footballs & basketballs once they're finished flowering. Real pains in the arse to trim.

Hybrids respond well to my method. I've yet to grow a full on sativa, as far as I know.,

 

[finallylegal]

Thanks MJP. I raised the lights for the pic; they are usually a few inches from the tallest plant and I raise the others. I used to just use 6500K for veg & hardening clones but am trying a mix for a while as experiment. The CJH has had predictably long internode lengths from the very 1st grow and that was under straight 6500K t5's.

think i'll fish around in strain guides and see if there's anything about caring for CJH. Am not even sure she's worth it for all the special attention she gets. think I said earlier that I keep a 3 or 4 strains but only have 2 in flower at any one time to be a law abiding patient. So for the sake of smooth rotations I like them all to be relatively similar in their needs.

 

[smurfin'herb]

Top or supercrop your plants sometime in the first week of flower, then use nitrozime. Works like a charm, and youll get a quicker flower set, leading to more yield, but surprisingly the flowering time should remain the same. At least it has for me.

 

[HarvestMoon303]

Personally, I think that it's mostly enough light and genetics. I will try to get a pic up here, but I have some Romulan x Blue Dream that I grew from seed under a 4-bulb T-5, then vegged under a 600w HPS (not MH, even though I have one).

The plant is just stacked with nodes and went into flower, day 1, yesterday. I was using a penny for scale in a photo, and some of the tighter nodes are less than half a penny apart, meaning maybe 1/3rd of an inch. I'm excited for them, but they are from seed, so I don't even know their sex yet. Pity if they were to be males (I have two that are almost identical).

If you think that it's genetics in your case, I bet that it is. Bottom line.

 

[finallylegal]

thanx Smurfing. Harvest Moon is probably right about it being "just genetics" but this is the 2nd strain I've had like this (Trainwreck the other) and, if possible, I would like to be able to manage or control it as best I can.

Being a newbie what I know is what I read. And a fair amount of what I read conflicts with what I've read elsewhere. Cervantes, Rosenthal, and BOG being my primary sources, I could swear that I've read that topping should be done early - well before flowering - so the plant has the right amt. of growth hormones in all growing tips before the light shift. I read at your link for new growers so figure you know what you are talking about - but it conflicts with what I think I read.

Had been topping early - once or twice in veg depending on strain. Then trimming bottom branches and side shoots (supercropping?) after about a week or so into 12/12. About the time I see flowers. You do topping and chopping at the same time she goes into 12/12? Like I say, I'm a newbie, and would have thought that would be too shocking.

Also, nobody has said anything about the obvious purple in CJH's stems and petioles. You can see that in the picture. And thought I read it was a sign of Mg shortage and a cause for extended node lengths. But I couldn't find it so don't know if I'm remembering right. She had purple stems and petioles both previous grows and I've tried to hit her a little hard with the CalMag so thought it was just genetics.

 

[MJPassion]

Personally, I wouldn't worry about the purple petioles/stems.
If you are growing a plant that does not normally have purple petioles/stems then maybe. I'm of the opinion that most cannabis lines exhibit purpling of one form or another... especially on their petioles.

If you've used the 100% 6500k spectrum and had similar growth you may consider cutting back on the amout of N you're putting in that particular plants soil during the stretch. (It's deeper than that but I don't recall the specifics at this time.)

Lastly...
Forget Cervantes. His writing style can be confusing, ime/o.
Rosenthals newest book (Oaksterdam University text) is pretty solid.

I haven't any experience with BOGs methods/book so can't comment from experience. He has good reviews, however.
Choose one as your primary source material.
The other books aren't garbage, just different view points.

I would suggest adding a couple botany books of your choice to your collection as well. They don't have to be cannabis specific either.

 

[finallylegal]

good advice MJP. Only recently read Mg caused the red and since then have been using Calmag almost weekly till early flower and switching to Sweet - as directed by my most recent author.

I like R's Oaksterdam book for a number of reasons - especially the emphasis on making your grow conform to the laws of your state. Not something I cared about when I was an outdoor gardener and growing bag seed and harvesting in week 4 of flower. Getting legal has inspired me to work on quality instead of a year's supply of hay. And, without a tutor, it isn't as easy as the average vegetable gardener like I am expected.

It will all come together one of these days. thanks all.........

 

[3dDream]

If they are stretching like I would:

use more light
top the plant more
feed less

If you want the bonus points you cross it to something bushy.

 

[brokensoffa]

You can also have a light cycle of 11/13 for sativas to get them to stretch less. They usually grow around the equator where the floering cycle turns out to be 11 hours of light and 13 hours of darkness, that will make sure the plant understand that it's time to flower right now and not getting ready to flower and growing as tall as possible before the "real flowering period" starts. So 11/13, flowering nutes and a blue spectrum light for the first flower stretch is your best bet.

 

[T_B_M]

Every time I get stretching its because the plant isn't getting the proper light intensity. If you have an uneven canopy or have the light too far away, they will stretch toward the light to try to get more, leaving you with wide node gaps. I veg under 40W 'Daylight' CFLs (4500K), nodes seem to stack up well when the bulbs are 3-5 inches from the tops. As long as they don't burn get them as close as possible.

I like to let my clones stretch out a bit during their first week of growth after rooting. I keep them farther from the light until I get to 6-10" tall, then bend the branches over and train them down with ties. Longer node spacing on the bottom of the plant helps for training, then once you train the first time get the light closer and you will see shorter node spacing.

You can also find some strains that just don't grow fast, or tall. I have a White Widow that just doesn't like to grow fast and barely has any stretch during flower. Takes forever to veg compared to some of my other strains, but its great smoke so I keep it around.