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Severe, persistent downward leaf curl on multiple strains.

fshs

New member
Ok gang. Not really my style, but I need the community on this one. Haven't pulled a harvest in 6 months now due to a severe something or other.
Timeline: Oct, 2015, 8 Blue Dream cuttings went into 5 gallon pots (way too big, I know, I was smoking at work again) from an Ez Cloner. Clones were already on the struggle bus with cyano/brown/bullshit something. Downward leaf curl was already pronounced before transplanting. Potted in reused coco on it's 3rd or 4th cycle (yeah, I know.) Using weekly Dynagro Grow at 1 oz/5 gallon (this is now my prime suspect.)
Roots on the girls are absolute shit. Brown, dessicated, brittle. Hypoaspis mites have been observed preying on smaller wood mites in some pots, no correlation between the decomposers and health has been observed. Initially suspected nitrate problems from the bugs, but have elliminated that possibility by removing bugs in a test pot to no avail. The mite-free soil is doing no better. BDs have been treated with imidacloprid and abamectin, no change, no evidence of any bugs above ground with a 40x loupe, not all plants are affected, leading me to rule out arthropod infestation.
SM-90 helped a bit, and began to turn the roots around for a few weeks, but BAM, back to shit in less than a month. Going through the same story with actinovate right now. Initial applications slowed symptoms, and resulted in a root explosion, but continued application is no longer slowing root decay. The roots themselves turn tan, then they deglove like a skinned squirrel. The outside of the roots easily break and slide off the internal "pith" of the root, leaving useless little threads. Even the actinovate-assisted roots are currently turning tan again.
Aspirin was used between 100-325 mg gallon. This helps perhaps the most, but very temporarily. Leaves may attempt to uncurl for perhaps a day or two, and then slam right back down.
GROWTH IS SOOOOOO SLOW. It has taken me 6 months to fill my photolayer, and we are still looking like crap.
S. Lydicus is clearly established in the soil, based on a pervasive odor of geosmin in the entire house.
Now, in late November I dropped 45 new beans of Afghani 1, Medicine Man, NL5xHaze, Green Love Potion, Delicious Cheese Candy, and Samsara's Holy Grail 69.
MANY of these beans damped off. Like, perhaps half.
They went into new soil and perked up, exploded like they were supposed to. A few weeks in though, just stopped again. Havent budged in a month. Now, some of the NL5xH ladies are curling down SO hard, as in, creating complete circles with their leaf blades, as are the original blue dream, and a few of the other individuals are showing run-of-the-mill tip-clawing from nitro tox, some are yellowing from the bottom, but no brown spots or tips, just bright yellowing, maintaining *some* green patches, with no browning until total abscission.
I have recently read that Dynagro needs to be run at about 1/4 of the bottle rate, but I need somebody to confirm what this symptom set is related to. Could it be salt build-up? The BD's were drinking virtually NO water until the actinovate went in. Theyd go a week or two without drying out. Actinovate has brought that down to about 5 days, but we are still mushy and curled. Can't bud like this. Please please help. Temps are 60-80 humidity is 35-60 (cant do much about that in the winter) running dyna grow, cal-mag, and sulfuric acid ph down in tap water filtered through a big blue catalytic (Centaur), phd to 6 ish. I've begun flushing the 5 gallons with 10 gallons of water/each, no observable change in 48 hrs. Will post pics this afternoon. Mad respect to anybody who can wave their wand at this one.
-fshs
 

fshs

New member
Here are the Blue Dreams:
9

9

9

And the NL5xH:
9

9


So.... correction. I guess there is some tip burn on the NL5xH ladies. Anybody who feels like chiming in would be greatly appreciated.
 

Oliver Pantsoff

Active member
Veteran
Looks like you have broad mites..The damage is so bad, I don't think they can come back. I would scrap em, clean room, heat treat, then start over.

OP
 

fshs

New member
I suspected broad or cyclamen mites, but some plants, even those in close physical contact with the affected plants are completely without symptoms. Even thriving. Spraying with Avid twice in three days did nothing to the symptom set. Would BM be visible at 40x or do I need to look closer?
 

Oliver Pantsoff

Active member
Veteran
You would need to look a lil closer. Don't spray to much avid due to them building a tolerance to it if you use to much. Rotate it with something like forbid, pylon, and kontos if you wanna go the chemical route.

Sometimes a plant can look totally normal, then one day you come in and you start noticing the leaf curl. It's a very hard thing to get a hold of, but if you stay on them you can knock there population down or even completely eradicate them. Hope this helps

Therea a broad mite sticky above that can help a lot tho. Sorry for your loss bro. These things are like a fucking plague or something


OP
 
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doams

Member
well last round had same tiger claws type curling on an acapulco gold from barneys plant thought that was just the specific strain thingie and it did not affected grow or flowering so would say its normal for some strains but if you have this on multiple strains it could be something else.

will run acapulco gold again and curious if it will be same as last time with that curling hm.
 

fshs

New member
Well, the thing is, ALL clawing individuals are at least half haze. The blue dream is blueberry x haze and the Nl5xH (obvs) is Northern Lights x Haze. I have read that many haze genetics do crazy shit when the humidity is bouncing around, or is too low, and my michigan basement room is between 30-70% RH in the winter between day and night. I've got a more powerful scope coming in the mail. Can anybody comment on the likelihood of a genetic predisposition to this behavior? Dont want to put my head in the sand, or my foot in my mouth, but it just isn't acting like BMs to my layman mind. I mean, it's been too long, right? I brought them all the way up from 2" cuttings with these symptoms. Could they have survived mites that long?
Let me get some photos of some root action and see if we all still think mites. Thank you both for your help so far.
 

spence360

Member
you have to get the best supermacrocloseup pics possible to find the mites
When I had russets before they looked like yellowy powder, much smaller than trichomes.
If you are able to look under a microscope it will offer you the magnification you really need to see "them."

but the root and soil symptoms sound like it could be a horrible fungal infestation
especially since the actinovate seems to help some...
and because you transplanted them already inoculated with some sort of pathogen (cyano/brown/bullshit something)
 
Yeah... pythium or something. Throw the soil away and start over.

You can try dutchmaster zone I use it as a fungicide for hydro
 

Mikell

Dipshit Know-Nothing
ICMag Donor
Veteran
Given the copious amount of people who have used Dyna Gro without issue, that likely isn't your problem.

Check your usage rates against other frequently posted concentrations. What EC and pH are you feeding?

Are you cutting used coir with new?

Sounds like chronic overwatering, the more glaring example being the dampening off of so many seedlings. Pathogenic crop damage is the result of you creating optimum conditions for their growth. No fungicide in the world is going to treat the root (punny guy) cause, just the symptom.

Don't bother treating for BM's either unless you see the characteristic eggs. It's too easy to get worked up in a tither over percieved issues. ID first, then treat.

I'd be more worried about what to do with all the coir you needlessly contaminated with imidicloprid.
 

moses wellfleet

Well-known member
Moderator
Veteran
It doesn't look like broad mites, the surface of the leaf would be rough as well as curling edges.

I had problems similar to yours a while ago, soil needs phosphorous to develop healthy roots. If phosphorous is lacking roots turn brown and decompose which attracts a host of critters like soil mites and enchythraeids, they feed on the decomposing root matter and are not the cause of the problem but a symptom. fusarium and pythium also thrive under these conditions.

In my case I started again, making sure there was enough bonemeal in the soil amendments... problem never recurred!

I see some very red stems which are indicative of phosphorous deficiency. It may be part of your problem!
 
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